[Muttely]

Downgrading from my 40RC2 to a set of 07 boxxer teams to raise money for racing, basically, i know there are some serious fettlers on here, any chance that we could compile a little piece on what you can do to a boxxer to make it work optimally, how, and why.

would be a nice little thread to go shim crazy.

 

[General Lee]

Downgrading from my 40RC2 to a set of 07 boxxer teams to raise money for racing, basically, i know there are some serious fettlers on here, any chance that we could compile a little piece on what you can do to a boxxer to make it work optimally, how, and why.

would be a nice little thread to go shim crazy.

I'd use an 07 Boxxer team over a Fox 40 any day. The team is the same as the WC that plenty of fast guys are still using (Pascal is getting top 10's at world cups on the old boxxer), only difference is it uses a spring instead of a $600 set of o-rings and free air.

Usually ran mine with 2-3 clicks of the blue compression knob and about a turn of the floodgate dial. admittedly the adjustments don;t do as much as I would have liked, but even run full open the boxxer tends to be less prone to brake dive and blowing through its travel than the Fox forks of the past few years.

edit: and keep the space between the dust wiper and the sels well greased, thance the bushing lube/oil once a month, and put a litttle tri-flow or thin chain lube on the leading edge of the dust wipers periodically to keep them sliding nice and smooth (wipe off the excess though or it will collect tons of dust).

 

[Muttely]

Yep yep i used to run boxer races and took great effort in keeping em really nice and greased and lubed, i mean like, internal mods that can make the fork work better, its secondhand, so i figure theres nothing to lose!

 

[Supa8]

No need to mod the 07 Team fork. Lee told you all you need to know. Keep the oil fresh and seals lubed and you will be good to go.

 

[freakrock]

The most "generic" mod i make to boxxers is to cut a piece of plastic bottle and fit it between the blue knob and the top cap. This allows infinite compression settings instead of the stock 5 or 6.

 

[time-bomb]

The only internal mods I can think of would be the new internals that PUSH has been experimenting with. They seem to have a ton of potential and will turn this fork into a totally different animal but it will probably cost around $300 - 400 and who really knows if/when they will actually be available.

I have had really good results from PUSH in the past so I am hoping this makes it to the market in the "near future". I would love to give it a try. I am not aware of any other options out there and I am not technically inclined enough to take my current Boxxer apart and make my own mods to it other than the general maintenance mentioned above.

 

[JeffKill]

edit: and keep the space between the dust wiper and the sels well greased, thance the bushing lube/oil once a month, and put a litttle tri-flow or thin chain lube on the leading edge of the dust wipers periodically to keep them sliding nice and smooth (wipe off the excess though or it will collect tons of dust).

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but isnt there a foam ring that you keep saturated with oil in between the dust wiper and the oil seal?

I dont own a Boxxer, but I do have a Pike and a Recom, and that's what is in that space. Looking at the service manual for a Boxxer, it looks to have the same setup.

 

[Muttely]

Freakrock, thats the kind of thing ive heard about!


Though ill probably ship them off to TF, get the stack redone etc.

Is Udi about to comment on his Grease porting?

 

[time-bomb]

The most "generic" mod i make to boxxers is to cut a piece of plastic bottle and fit it between the blue knob and the top cap. This allows infinite compression settings instead of the stock 5 or 6.

This sounds sweet. Does it solve the problem of 1 click = no change, 2 = no change, 3 = something, 4 = hard, etc, etc.

Seems like my compression, and everyone else I know for that matter is almost either wide open and super stiff, not much in between. Does this mod give you more range in between the first few clicks or just a wider range over all? Hopefully that question makes sense.:huh:

 

[General Lee]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but isnt there a foam ring that you keep saturated with oil in between the dust wiper and the oil seal?

I dont own a Boxxer, but I do have a Pike and a Recom, and that's what is in that space. Looking at the service manual for a Boxxer, it looks to have the same setup.

no foam in the boxxer, and from my experience the forks that do have the foam ring work better with the foam removed and replaced with grease.

to clarify a previous post. putting some kind of shim between the top cap and comp. adjuster will not give you infinite adjustment, it will still have the same range beginning to end but there will no longer be indexed 'clicks.' might allow for a minor amount of fine tuning but it won;t effect the range one bit.

 

[JeffKill]

no foam in the boxxer, and from my experience the forks that do have the foam ring work better with the foam removed and replaced with grease.

I see, thanks for clarifying. Couple more quick questions, sorry for being off topic...

If you remove the foam ring, do you pack that space with enough grease so it actually contacts the stanchions? If thats the case, I would definitely need something thicker than the grease I currently use (rock n roll super slick). Is something like slick honey that much thicker than the super slick grease?

Thanks

 

[time-bomb]

to clarify a previous post. putting some kind of shim between the top cap and comp. adjuster will not give you infinite adjustment, it will still have the same range beginning to end but there will no longer be indexed 'clicks.' might allow for a minor amount of fine tuning but it won;t effect the range one bit.

Ok, interesting. This more or less answers the question I had. Sounds like you could just remove the metal ball to get rid of the detents (sp?) and that would do the same thing, no?

 

[freakrock]

i don't remove it because i don't know if the next owner will like it that way or not, but if you don't care about that...
@timebomb: sure it does. you could use settings like 3.5 clicks or even 3.51642 if you want

 

[General Lee]

Ok, interesting. This more or less answers the question I had. Sounds like you could just remove the metal ball to get rid of the detents (sp?) and that would do the same thing, no?

i don't think so, at least not without the adjuster moving on its own while riding. the idea behind using some kind of shim is to provide enough friction to keep the adjuster knob in place. the pressure from the spring loaded ball on the plastic shim should be enough.

 

[Inclag]

I'm around 185 without armor. I found that the stock team fork with medium springs was quite undersprung, way way way underdamped in LSC, and had a bit too much HSC. I'm a bit particular about suspension setup, and the last thing I want is 8 inches of wallowy travel and unpredictability.

My solution was to remove the medium (160-180lb) spring and install the firm (180-200lb) spring. Replace the stock 5wt. oil with some Finish Line 10wt., and remove 2 of the larger shims from the speed stack (Some have completely removed the speedstack, but I'm going to try this a bit before doing that). This has made a world of difference. The fork sits higher in it travel, isn't affected by brake dive like before, and doesn't move all around as I shift my body weight.

Some of the Boxxer power users like UDI and Socket will probably chime in since this is a fairly easy fork to service and mod, but I believe that the most important thing to do is to use a proper wt. oil to get the right LSC since the Boxxer's mechanical method of LSC adjustment (even without the detent) is a bit shoddy.

 

[time-bomb]

My solution was to remove the medium (160-180lb) spring and install the firm (180-200lb) spring. Replace the stock 5wt. oil with some Finish Line 10wt., and remove 2 of the larger shims from the speed stack (Some have completely removed the speedstack, but I'm going to try this a bit before doing that). This has made a world of difference. The fork sits higher in it travel, isn't affected by brake dive like before, and doesn't move all around as I shift my body weight.

I am going to have to look into this more. I did forget to mention earlier that I also changed my oil wt. I am 160 and wanted a faster rebound and a wider range of adjustability in the compression so I went to a 3 wt. I like it better than the 5 wt. I previously had but it still doesn't do enough for the compression. If I remove some shims from the speed stack will I have to go back up in oil weight?

i don't think so, at least not without the adjuster moving on its own while riding. the idea behind using some kind of shim is to provide enough friction to keep the adjuster knob in place. the pressure from the spring loaded ball on the plastic shim should be enough.

I am glad I asked, this will prevent an unpleasant experience out on the trail :biggrin:

 

[Supa8]

I am going to have to look into this more. I did forget to mention earlier that I also changed my oil wt. I am 160 and wanted a faster rebound and a wider range of adjustability in the compression so I went to a 3 wt. I like it better than the 5 wt. I previously had but it still doesn't do enough for the compression. If I remove some shims from the speed stack will I have to go back up in oil weight?



Are you looking to lighten up or heavy the compression settings? Boxxers have very fast rebound as standard. I assume you are using the medium spring?

 

[time-bomb]

Are you looking to lighten up or heavy the compression settings? Boxxers have very fast rebound as standard. I assume you are using the medium spring?

I am actually using an 08 WC. I am usually running about 160psi. I would like to lighten up the compression a bit. I feel like I go from no effect at all to very firm compression. Something in between would be nice.

 

[Inclag]

I am going to have to look into this more. I did forget to mention earlier that I also changed my oil wt. I am 160 and wanted a faster rebound and a wider range of adjustability in the compression so I went to a 3 wt. I like it better than the 5 wt. I previously had but it still doesn't do enough for the compression. If I remove some shims from the speed stack will I have to go back up in oil weight?

Faster rebound?? You can get the rebound smoking fast with the fork stock.

First I would start with reading this thread. It's a bit long, but worthwhile.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166577

I don't want to tell you how to set up your suspension since people prefer all sorts of different setups, but I really do think that going to a lighter viscosity oil (this is not the same as oil weight to confuse things even more) from the stock setup is the wrong way to go when working on the Boxxer, unless you like some sort of very specific setup with nearly no compression damping aka "The Rennie".

I think the most important things to get dialed in with the fork are spring rate and LSC. With that said, the adjustable LSC plate is just not that refined and doesn't provide much of a usable adjustment range imho. I think the best way to find the right LSC is to start with a known oil viscosity in that 1-4 click "open feeling" LSC adjustment range, and then go up or down in viscosity until you achieve the level of damping you want. In other words, don't rely on the adjuster since it is a bit limited by design.

With respect to the HSC, Udi and I think Socket are/were of the opinion that the regressive damping curve of the activated gate is more ideal under high speed compression than the secondary (speedstack) shimstack which they theorized would restrict too much oil under fast hits, and cause more arm fatigue. (the link I posted will explain)

I think it is fair to say that most people aren't looking for more HSC damping from their Boxxer's, so you can do anything from removing some shims from the speedstack to completely removing it.

The one real hindrance with the older Boxxer is that rebound cartridge is still pretty basic and ported, so if you are like myself, and need to use a higher viscosity oil to achieve a certain level of LSC, then you may limit your rebound. In my case, I have to run it full open.

Good luck, the Boxxer is a fun little fork to play with

 

[Inclag]

Are you looking to lighten up or heavy the compression settings? Boxxers have very fast rebound as standard. I assume you are using the medium spring?

Erik is that you? How are things going?

 

[time-bomb]

Inclad, thanks for all the info. That is helpful and the link is too. I will definitely be reading more of that. Basically what you are suggesting in your second paragraph under the link is what I think I am doing now.

The main reason for me to go to the more viscous oil was to open the adjustment range up a bit in LSC. In theory, with a lighter viscosity, each click should have less of an effect and therefore I would have more useable clicks to go through to fine tune it before I hit that dreaded setting that is just too hard. So far this has proven to be true as I like my compression setting better than before but still find it limiting. So it sounds like I may be on the right track and the next thing I need to do is finish reading that link and try to make some internal adjustments. Maybe between all this and the 3.51642 setting that freakrock is recommending I will find the sweet spot

Ok, so back to the whole rebound speed issue. I really should have been more specific on this earlier. Using the stock oil I could find a rebound setting that worked and it was plenty fast for anything from medium to large high and low speed impacts. However it never felt like it would return as fast as it should on the smaller hits. Going to a lighter viscosity I was still able to find a setting that worked on the larger hits but it also sped up the rebound on the smaller hits. Since the fork wasn’t compressing as much on those there wasn’t really enough oil flow to have a big effect on the rebound so the fork would rebound quicker and therefore it gave me kind of a low speed rebound effect albeit a poor man’s version. Every now and then I do experience some minor top out but I find it more acceptable than the stock setting. However, I never experience the top out on the bigger hits since there is enough oil flow to have an effect on the rebound. I am sure the new Boxxer solves many of these issues by having the separate hi/low adjustments.

I am not sure how this would work for someone heavier than me but in theory it is all relative maybe the stock oil would be fine for a heavier person?

 

[Supa8]

Erik is that you? How are things going?

Ha! Ya I owe you a call. Been a bit crazy this week.

 

[Udi]

The fork works pretty well out of the box, personally I'd just change all the fluids, burp the lowers (compress halfway with rods pushed in to allow air to escape, and then tighten footbolts), pack the seals/wipers with grease... and ride. You can fine tune it if you decide it needs it, but the fork works pretty well out of the box once you play with all the adjustments.

Just a few pointers RE: the rest of the thread:

- Rebound goes plenty fast in stock guise, the only two issues realistically are a) it's a bit slow from deeper in the stroke even at full fast, because it's a ported damper, and b) if you increase oil weight to get the compression right, you'll add more rebound damping as well. If you weigh >160 this shouldn't be a problem as your springrate will be high enough to actually need a bit more rebound damping.

- The speedstack does very little in stock guise, there are multiple points of bypass so it doesn't really add much damping, personally I'd remove it completely but leave the blue hex core in place (just remove the speedstack from it).

- Removing the detents from the compression adjuster is a bit silly I think, because if you race/shuttle DH, it will get bumped around (I've seen it happen even with the detented adjusters but at least it's really easy to count clicks back to your old setting). So instead of shimming away the detents, personally I'd find a setting that is roughly right (2-3 clicks back from full closed generally gives a good amount of LSC), and then fine tune using oil weights if needed.

- Finally, if anyone is reading that speedstack thread, start at the end and read backwards until you find what you want. The earlier pages are a mess of people (me included) just figuring things out, whereas if you read it backwards from the end you'll find a lot of questions answered accurately.

 

[blacksim549]

Is replacing the yellow foam with a lot of grease make it better?

My fork is a bit sticky, and I ride it with 105psi (I weight 155lbs).

I have a '07 WC.

 

[RUFUS]

Is replacing the yellow foam with a lot of grease make it better?

My fork is a bit sticky, and I ride it with 105psi (I weight 155lbs).

I have a '07 WC.

Yes, take the foam out and pack in between the seals with slick honey. Works beautifully. Also lube the bushings a bit.

 

[blacksim549]

Will Finish Line synthetic teflon grease do it? I don't have slick honey.

 

[Udi]

That should be fine, but unless someone put yellow foam rings in your fork, it shouldn't have them anyway. Like stated earlier in this thread, boxxers (06 onwards at least) don't come with foam rings.

Anyway, packing the area between the seals with grease and changing the 15cc oil per lower leg should help make the fork less sticky, yes.

 

[Muttely]

Now heres one that coud have an appalingly obvious answer.

when i used to run my boxxer races, alot of oil would build up and almost congeal on the damper rod, this shoukld be cleaned off right? as when i did so my fork worked an obscene amount better, but i was never sure!

God, im going to have to go on an oil/redrum/slick grease buying mission arent i!