[ummbikes]

about baseball. Our class went up to his offices at Preston Gates and Ellis in Seattle and he gave a talk about the Seattle Mariners and the work he did while Attorney General of Washington. I asked how he felt (as a Republican) about the public funding of professional stadiums and he justified the practice by stating "Anyone who is asked would prefer that they lived in a major league town."

For those who don't know, Slade was a Repulican United States Senator from the fine state of Washington.

At any rate I told him that in the past owners built their own stadiums and that I thought the practice should start again.

And he retorted that it will likely never happen because cities aree so willing to have team they will build stadiums to attract them.

So I argued with a former Senator and survived!

So my question to this honorable and esteemed group, should we peons be building stadiums for the billionares to house their ball clubs?

 

[LordOpie]

my issue isn't with the billionaire owners since I kinda feel like sports are a public entertainment product. The issue I have is with the insane salaries of the players. Granted, that's a fault of the owners paying it.

So, I think a compromise needs to happen at the Federal level... we'll build the stadiums, but the leagues need to agree to a salary cap with the Feds as the third party. Or no public funded stadiums.

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by ummbikes
So I argued with a former Senator and survived!

Tell the truth... he squashed you like a bug.

( ...a well reasoned and insightful bug... )

 

[Toshi]

i think that building stadiums at our expense is ridiculous.

 

[Silver]

Are you paying for tickets still, or is the city giving them to you?

What if you're not a baseball fan? I'd imagine there are people who could care less if their town has a team. LA hasn't collapsed due to not having an NFL team. What if you like baseball, but would rather see tax dollars go for roads?

Did you ask this guy what he thought about welfare or education policy? I'd love to contrast his attitudes on that with his largesse toward baseball teams.

"Anyone who is asked would prefer that they lived in a major league town."

What an insightful way to justify corporate welfare...

 

[BurlyShirley]

I like that cities are financing stadiums.

Think of a town like Nashville. Its not very big, and its not got a whole lot of money when compared to some other big cities BUT, the fan base of pro sports like football there is HUGE. Publicly funding a stadium attracted a team (Tn Titans) and gave the entire city a sense of identity beyond Country Music, which is dying there anyway. Personally, Im for just about anything that brings people close together.
Also, a stadium has tons of other uses besides just pro sports. So its not like its "JUST" for whatever team plays there. Its for public entertainment altogether.

Also, Opie, on the issue of huge player salaries. It doesnt bother me at all either. These guys, through thier abilities, actually bring in much more money than they will ever be paid by their owners. Someone's getting rich because sports are so popular. Why not let it be the players as much as the owners?

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Also, Opie, on the issue of huge player salaries. It doesnt bother me at all either. These guys, through thier abilities, actually bring in much more money than they will ever be paid by their owners. Someone's getting rich because sports are so popular. Why not let it be the players as much as the owners?

The problem is, it's a monopoly. It's an unregulated monopoly. I don't think the owners should make that much either. I can't afford to go to games and neither can the average person. Thing is, no city can have 4-5 teams to compete for the ticket revenues so they can pretty much charge what they want... as a monopoly is want to do.

As for the salaries, that's just a personal issue between many fans and the players and it really only became a problem when the players started making millions -and- striking for more -and- saying crap like "I need to support my family"... fvck them.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
The problem is, it's a monopoly. It's an unregulated monopoly. I don't think the owners should make that much either. I can't afford to go to games and neither can the average person. Thing is, no city can have 4-5 teams to compete for the ticket revenues so they can pretty much charge what they want... as a monopoly is want to do.

As for the salaries, that's just a personal issue between many fans and the players and it really only became a problem when the players started making millions -and- striking for more -and- saying crap like "I need to support my family"... fvck them.

Sure, the athletes are greedy bastards and all in alot of cases, but really, they are the ones that bring all that money in, so i can see why they'd want to be entitled to it.

Also, sports tickets are pretty pricey, but Id say for a good $50 bucks you can get a ticket to a Broncos game. No cheap date, but most games are sold out, right? So people can and do afford it. OR, you can watch it FREE on television if you dont mind commercials.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Sure, the athletes are greedy bastards and all in alot of cases, but really, they are the ones that bring all that money in, so i can see why they'd want to be entitled to it.

Also, sports tickets are pretty pricey, but Id say for a good $50 bucks you can get a ticket to a Broncos game. No cheap date, but most games are sold out, right? So people can and do afford it. OR, you can watch it FREE on television if you dont mind commercials.

yeah, but what about the monopoly? Why is sports the only industry (I can think of) that gets away with it?

 

[Toshi]

i think the players are entitled to their money, sure. however, having the public pay for stadiums is ridiculous. what benefit to we get out of it, other than having the general populace satisfy their sloth by paying for the privilege to be spectators once in a blue moon ?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
yeah, but what about the monopoly? Why is sports the only industry (I can think of) that gets away with it?

I dont get how its a monopoly

I mean, there are many teams and many sports owned within the sports industry. They're all different companies in a league, really. Each trying to make the buck.
If you mean to say that they monopolize entertainment, id disaree, and say that films make more money annually.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Toshi
what benefit to we get out of it, other than having the general populace satisfy their sloth by paying for the privilege to be spectators once in a blue moon ?

Uh, you just answered your own questin Toshi. The government does what "the people" want, or its supposed to. So you can take the fact that the city govts. are financing stadims to attract sports teams and support them as a direct representation of the general populace's love for sports entertainment.

So, you, the non-conformist dont like it. Boo Hoo. The rest of us do.

 

[ummbikes]

I wold consider myself to have an above avergage love for the game of baseball yet I am disgusted that Nintendo (The owners of the Seattle Mariners) held the Mariners hostage in order to get Safeco field built.

The taxes that paid for the construction come from airport, rental car and food service. So we are at least socking it to the visitors of Seattle to pay for some of it. I am just amused that this old guard warrior of the Republican party is so damn honest about the joy he feels about having the tax payers of The United States build a stadium for a Japanese company.

I could care less about the players salarys. I hope they all get filthy rich. I hope the clubs make a mint too.

I just want them to build their own stadiums and in the case of the Mariners pay back the citizens of the Washington the $525 million dollars we spent to house the Mariners.

And I want them to get a power hitting left handed bat in the line-up.

That's it.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I dont get how its a monopoly

I mean, there are many teams and many sports owned within the sports industry. They're all different companies in a league, really. Each trying to make the buck.
If you mean to say that they monopolize entertainment, id disaree, and say that films make more money annually.

It's a monopoly in the same was as your local power or water company. There's many of them, right?

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Tell the truth... he squashed you like a bug.

( ...a well reasoned and insightful bug... )

No, he was engaged enough to answer my questions. I was being firm and so was he. I would call it a draw. He does have power though, so I guess in that respect what I had to say was meaningless.

He is a master politico and it was very gracious of him to take an hour to talk with our class.

Donald Fehr will be coming to speak to our class in two weeks. I have some questions for him too.:devil:

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
It's a monopoly in the same was as your local power or water company. There's many of them, right?

Yes, but theres only one real form of power and water, right? Yet there's many other forms of entertainment. Its not a monopoly. Its just expensive.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Yes, but theres only one real form of power and water, right? Yet there's many other forms of entertainment. Its not a monopoly. Its just expensive.

Actually Burly, Major League Baseball is a protected monopoly. It's a real legal fact.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Actually Burly, Major League Baseball is a protected monopoly. It's a real legal fact.

Yes, but that's only to stop other pro baseball leagues from forming right? Its not to force people to watch baseball and thats it , or else they get no other entertainment.

 

[MMike]

1) It's STADIA!

2) I've already argued this a bunch of times.... Tax money should not be spent on this....yes it created jobs...but beer vnedors would find work elsewhere.

3) I still think that knocking down a building only to build THREE is just retarded. The Kingdome WAS the ball field, the football stadium and the expo center. These are all held in separate buildings now.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Yes, but that's only to stop other pro baseball leagues from forming right? Its not to force people to watch baseball and thats it , or else they get no other entertainment.

No.

I am up to my ass in homework at the moment so I can't explain this in too much detail.

Google: baseball anti-trust exemption

This should lead you to the information.

Anyone is free to start another pro-league.

 

[Spud]

When the taxpayers start shelling out money for a privately owned facilitiy that's crossing the line. If the taxpayers own the stadium and can collect revenue (with honest accounting and audits) then sure, go for it.

Passing the tax burden to out of town visitors is the coward's approach. There's a tax liability there, passing it on to somebody who doesn't vote in your district is lame.

 

[$tinkle]

he's taping for the dennis miller show tonight (CNBC - check local listings).

maybe he'll give you a shout-out?

echoing silver: 'tis corporate welfare

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Yes, but that's only to stop other pro baseball leagues from forming right? Its not to force people to watch baseball and thats it , or else they get no other entertainment.

Cable TV has had many hearings on their monopolies and yet, it's not a needed product. No one needs TV... same thing, no?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by ummbikes
about baseball. Our class went up to his offices at Preston Gates and Ellis in Seattle and he gave a talk about the Seattle Mariners and the work he did while Attorney General of Washington. I asked how he felt (as a Republican) about the public funding of professional stadiums and he justified the practice by stating "Anyone who is asked would prefer that they lived in a major league town."

For those who don't know, Slade was a Repulican United States Senator from the fine state of Washington.

At any rate I told him that in the past owners built their own stadiums and that I thought the practice should start again.

And he retorted that it will likely never happen because cities aree so willing to have team they will build stadiums to attract them.

So I argued with a former Senator and survived!

So my question to this honorable and esteemed group, should we peons be building stadiums for the billionares to house their ball clubs?

If I recall....here in the wonderful state of Washington...we King County residents (of which I was one at the time) voted AGAINST using OUR bloody tax dollars to build the stupid things.

I do not hesitate to tell this to any visiting guest that was not here for the voting when they admire the pretty stadiums sitting side by side because our Football team is too damned good (riight) to play in the same stadium as our wealthy baseball team.

I gave up attending major league anything...as a result of being sickened by the use of Tax dollars against public/voter will to build the damned things. Now I go to minor league ball games...which I find to be far more fun!

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by $tinkle
he's taping for the dennis miller show tonight (CNBC - check local listings).

OT, but did that show get any better? I've seen a couple of them a while ago, and I've seen better stuff on cable access...

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Silver
OT, but did that show get any better? I've seen a couple of them a while ago, and I've seen better stuff on cable access...

it still goes:
- daily rorschach
- one-on-one
- 2 segments of varsity panel
- another one-on-one
- wrap-up

methinks he could reduce it to 1/2 hr; i watch rorschach & see if the rest is of interest. I liked it the first few weeks when only the gaffers & grips laughed.