[manimal]

the wife and kids are in bed right now and i just got off work....so you 's are my venting tool.


i was the first officer on scene tonight at a suicide where the dude had shot himself in the chest with a .22 revolver. i get there and the dude's lying on the couch with a hole right over his heart. he's got a faint pulse and is taking shallow breaths about every 8 seconds. he's pretty much what we call DRT (dead right there) and his pupils are about the size of a marble. so anyway, i start cpr and all that by myself for about 5 mintues, but to no avail. the dude is pronounced dead by EMS a little while later.

anyway, to the point. i've been to lots of wreck scenes and a couple homicides and i've seen the mangled/dead bodies, but they were always already dead or being carted off by ems. tonight was the first time that i watched a dude die and there wasn't much i could do about it. the weird thing is that i didn't care whether he lived or died, he wasn't anybody to me so what did it matter, besides, he took his own life. i guess that train of thought is some sort of coping mechanism.

so any of you EMT's, Dr's, cops..........how do you deal with it?


sorry if this is so morbid, i'm just wanting to vent.
all in a days work i guess

 

[brenth]

Sorry man, I know thats gotta be hard. I honestly have no idea how to deal with it. But I will say, thanks for trying...

 

[ito]

I'm not an EMT(yet, planning on getting cert'ed next winter), but have been around quite a few people who are, including a pretty serious girlfriend. The thing I noticed that they all did was talk about it. Letting it out in words let them get on with life and calmed them down. Even when there were horrible deaths they got by with talking about it. At times I didn't always understand how they could laugh after seeing something like that, but it helped them.

I asked my girlfriend about it once and she said that talking about it made it seem a little less real. Laughter was great medicine and she always made sure that she shared what happened that day with those around her. Being loved helps, talk to people. Don't need to go into the details, but let them know how you feel. The mind copes with this stuff pretty well, just do what comes naturally and don't hold it in.

Good luck dude, I really respect the people who are out there like you are. We need you all, keep it up.

The Ito

 

[supros88]

I feel realy sorry for you having to go through that, i can't imangane how you must feel.

 

[chicodude]

oh man, it happens all too much aroud here. first of all, i know how you feel, and i cant really tell you how to get over it, but for me i find a source of strength ( family, girlfriend etc......) . i have seen a motorcycle accident happen, i was riding my bike, i raced to his side, but he died in my arms. it really gave me a whole new respect for life, and to never waste a minute.
________
WEB SHOWS

 

[BurlyShirley]

man, thats rough....














Did ya check his wallet for cash before teh EMTs arrive?:devil:

 

[MudGrrl]

Am very sorry to hear about that.

That's rough.

If you were in the Air Force and went through the same thing, the commander would have a mandatory suicide counseling for everyone that *might* have been involved.
The suicide counseling was scheduled on your day off.
So, if you weren't thinking about suicide before, you definitely were then.

My friend Jim had to sit post on the body of an 18 year old guy who got dumped by his girlfriend because he had just joined the AF. It was his first job, to walk around a site to protect it. He disappeared over a hill and his partner heard shots fired.

Jim stood post for 7 hours (they were making sure that he didn't get up and leave, seriously).
After that, Jim would crack jokes about somewhat inappropriate things, and other people would condemn him.
It was his way with dealing with what he saw.

If I were posted on that guy, I would have been talking to him..

"What in god's name did ya do THAT for?"
"Guess you didn't have any Summer plans?"


I am pretty sure I would have been sent to psychiatric evaluation...

 

[TimeBomb]

Welcome to my world.

I used to keep a count on how many people died before me. Being a full time Fire Fighter and EMT in a busy city, the numbers add up quickly. I used to mark my calendar. Stupid, I know. I found that every time I looked at my calendar, I would reminisce. So, after a few years of that, I stopped. I didn't want those types of reminders.

CPR is a frequent think here. Overdoses, fatal car wrecks, suicides, murders... we get 'em all. You never forget the first. That is for sure. I've worked on people that have been crushed, squished by an 18 wheeler, hit by the Commuter Train, limbs torn off and so on. We had a woman blow her head clean off with a shot gun... I'll never forget the smell of gun powder, blood and plain old Death. We have a major Highway that runs through our city, a strip club, a mess of bar rooms, a horse track, 2 major Hospitals, Hotels, a few night clubs, 2 rail roads and 11 murders last year. We are up to 5 already this year as of Friday night when a 22 yr. old Iraq vet got stabbed a few times behind a local bar.

It used to keep me up at night. I can't say that I don't care... because I do. I do not wish these things on people but, if there is someone to work on... why not me do the work, right ? Anyway... I find peace is knowing that they were no better off without me arriving and doing my best. I mean, if we didn't show up they don't have nearly as good a chance of surviving.

So... I just know I do what I can and some make it and most don't.

I just try to not think about it. We get back to the station and sometimes we discus what we could have done differently. Other than that... we don't talk too much about it and let it go. We just move on and put it behind us.

 

[eric strt6]

I'm with TB on most of this. You do your best and move on, we have manditory debriefs after any fatalities but then you have to move forward.

If it's eating at you there should be someone in the dept that specializes in this type of debrief that you should go talk to


Eric
Santa Cruz CO Fire Dept

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by eric strt6


If it's eating at you there should be someone in the dept that specializes in this type of debrief that you should go talk to


Eric
Santa Cruz CO Fire Dept

it's not really eating me at all, i was mainly just curious about whether i should've felt more sympathy for the dude and if it's normal to not really care.

 

[eric strt6]

Originally posted by manimal
it's not really eating me at all, i was mainly just curious about whether i should've felt more sympathy for the dude and if it's normal to not really care.

well in this case there was nothing you could really do and besides he shot himself.

you knew prior to starting CPR he was gone but its not your call and you followed proceedure. I'd probably not feel too much emotion about it either.

That said just posting here is a good way to help yourself "cope"
never hold the stuff in, doing so is what will get to you.

 

[TimeBomb]

Originally posted by manimal
it's not really eating me at all, i was mainly just curious about whether i should've felt more sympathy for the dude and if it's normal to not really care.

Nope... that seems to be normal to me.

 

[Anders]

he shot himself in the heart? i thought u were supposed to blow out ur temple

 

[Old_Dude]

Give the guy credit - at least he was successful at what he was trying to accomplish.

I respect that.

It's the botched suicides that really tick me off. Those are the same people who wear tan knit pants either way too long or way too short. Too bad the people at the clothing stores don't sell 'em a gun to go with those slacks.

Too bad you can't just rent guns. Here's how it'd work: The gun store owner sees the door open & immediately his eyes are drawn to the customer's ankles. Instinctively, the man behind the counter reaches for the clipboard with the Gun Rental Form on it.

Naturally, the words roll out of the gun store owners mouth as the paperwork is finalized: "May I suggest a copper jacket hollow point or perhaps a wad cutter to go with that .44 sir?".

Gun rental is way over due to happen. Talk about more bang for your buck - geeze!

 

[Dtrain]

I just want to say thanks and sorry. Thanks for being brave and doing what you do and putting you life on the line for everyone everday you go to work. I have a lot of respect for peace officers. Also sorry for having to deal with things that are aweful, but like my roommate says (who is about to go into the force) there are ups and downs to every job just got to deal with them. We are always here to listen that is what I liek best about this board!

 

[Damn True]

When I was in the CG I saw more than my fair share of deaths. The only ones I had real trouble dealing with were the ones that were my friends.

For the most part I got mad at the vic. "Stupid S.O.B. was a professional sailor/fisherman, knew the risks, and chose to ignore the coming storm etc. and did it to themselves. Not only that, but forced me to put MY life at risk to try to save his dumb a$$." or in the case of suicides, "On some level, the guy/girl wanted to be dead. Wish granted." of course I had to shut out the impact on the families of the vic.

Dunno if this will work for you, but it got me through a lot.

 

[Spud]

We'd do debriefs on fatalities with trained facilitators. Generally I just remember that I'm just there because the pager went off, the choices leading to the scene were made long before we're dispatched.

One bad call comes back to haunt me on the anniversary, but I generally just choke up for 5 minutes and let it go.

 

[Clark Kent]

I have watched 8 people pass away. It never gets easier, least not for me. It sucks, and I feel sorry that you are going to have to deal with that as much as you probably are. If'n it was a stranger, what got me the most was thought of his/her family flashing through my head.

 

[Cursor]

Originally posted by manimal
it's not really eating me at all, i was mainly just curious about whether i should've felt more sympathy for the dude and if it's normal to not really care.

my wife is a ICU nurse things like this doesn't really seem to affect her anymore. but if you did feel too much sympathy or got too emotionally involved, you probably shouldn't be doing this for a living.

the only weird thing is that she doesn't show any emotions even if it's family that we're visiting at the hospital. she'll check the monitors and be like 'doesn't look good, i'd give it a few more days'

 

[Clark Kent]

Originally posted by Cursor
my wife is a ICU nurse things like this doesn't really seem to affect her anymore. but if you did feel too much sympathy or got too emotionally involved, you probably shouldn't be doing this for a living.

the only weird thing is that she doesn't show any emotions even if it's family that we're visiting at the hospital. she'll check the monitors and be like 'doesn't look good, i'd give it a few more days'

Yah...I dont think ya can turn it on and off, so to speak......Some folks just get numb, but it makes sense...Your brain is probably going to do what it needs to to sheild itself from constant emotional trauma...Sad that there are people who need to deal with that all the time....

 

[urbanfreak]

thats heavy man, i'm not real sure how i would have dealt with that

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Clark Kent
I have watched 8 people pass away. It never gets easier, least not for me. It sucks, and I feel sorry that you are going to have to deal with that as much as you probably are. If'n it was a stranger, what got me the most was thought of his/her family flashing through my head.

yeah, luckily the dude was no relation to me. i think the hardest part was seeing his wife wig out...after all, he did it right in front of her. the dude was older and terminally ill so i guess i let that be the mind duller. if it was a child or someone i knew i'm sure it would be a lot harder. too me, this guy might as well have been some dude from cambodia that died from rice poisoning.

 

[amateur]

Your employer should give you the debriefing and go over the signs of CIS, but the best thing I've found is talking about it. As a lifeguard, I usually see more struggling than actual death, but I've seen death as well. I usually find death easier to deal with than something like a near drowning, maybe because you always feel like you could be doing more. I don't know, this last weekend our skeleton staff was stretched too thin and I had a rescue to exhaustion of a 12yr old kid. I literally had to carry the poor guy from the water to the beach. Pulse, no breathing I barely started rescue breathing before the medics arrived. It's been a crappy week for most. An EMT friend of mine responded to a call that ended up being his girl friend's brother.

Bottom line, do whatever you feel relieves you of stress, be it riding, running, talking, etc. Don't be afraid to ask your employer for help...

 

[rozi]

It's common to feel guilty for having detached emotionally from the one you were serving/saving. To some extent, you MUST detach emotionally to do your job. But it's a balance. I don't think you need to feel guilty, but you were probably wounded emotionally, whether or not you realize it. (maybe not, a small number of folks are unaffected) Anyways, as people have been saying, you do need to talk about it. You will problably have to grieve at some point. It is better to drain your wound than to let it fester until it ruptures out.
And more importantly, it seems like you will probably have to deal with lots of situations like this, and it will be good if you have trained yourself to vent your feelings, then when you really have to block your emotional response to do your job, you'll be able to deal with it afterwards. So basically, it's good that you're talking about it. I'm sorry it happened and that it will happen again.
That's been my experience.
mike