[MMcG]

I'd like one that is steel, not super heavy and set up with geometry that can accept at least a 4" and preferably a new 5" single crown fork.

What's out there on the market these days like this - in steel mind you, not AL - that isn't a heavy 4130 cromoly hardtail frame?

There is always the Chameleon - but that's AL - not steel. Anyone building something along the lines of a Chameleon in steel? I know there is the Azonic Steelhead - but that frame is like 7 pounds or something isn't it?

I know someone is going to say an Evil Sovereign - but I don't think I really want to plop down $800 or whatever it will be for an Sovereign.

Are there other alternatives? This idea is one of many ideas I have right now for the Belair frame replacement and I'm not wedded to it. Just looking for information to help me in my decision making process.

Muchos Gracias for any information, advice, recommendations.

Mark

 

[narlus]

DOC is steel, right? that's only $450.

endless or brooklyn, but that's into sovereign territory.

there are not too many steel builders left, so you probably aren't gonna find a lightweight option that is mass-produced (ie, cheap).

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I'd like one that is steel, not super heavy and set up with geometry that can accept at least a 4" and preferably a new 5" single crown fork.

What's out there on the market these days like this - in steel mind you, not AL - that isn't a heavy 4130 cromoly hardtail frame?

There is always the Chameleon - but that's AL - not steel. Anyone building something along the lines of a Chameleon in steel? I know there is the Azonic Steelhead - but that frame is like 7 pounds or something isn't it?

I know someone is going to say an Evil Sovereign - but I don't think I really want to plop down $800 or whatever it will be for an Sovereign.

Are there other alternatives? This idea is one of many ideas I have right now for the Belair frame replacement and I'm not wedded to it. Just looking for information to help me in my decision making process.

Muchos Gracias for any information, advice, recommendations.

Mark

Do I hafta say it?

 

[MMcG]

Any idea on the weight of the DOC frame? that's something like what I was thinking of, but I'm not sure it is exactly what I had in mind.

I saw an awesome steel hardtail last night on MTBR.com built by a guy in VA named Steve Stickel - absolutely stunning - but not inexpensive,and rightly so - the frame is a work of art.

 

[pnj]

why steel and not aluminum?

there is an endless for sale in the 'for sale' area, under frames right now. it's red too. red is the best color for a bike.

 

[splat]

Go titanium Lightspeed, Merlin, Seven

 

[Echo]

Go titanium Lightspeed, Merlin, Seven

Apparently you missed that part about cheap

As MMcG already knows, I highly recommend the Kona Explosif frame

 

[MMcG]

MBC - I knew you'd chime in - I originally had hoped to buy a new FS frame, but it would probably be a wiser financial decision for me to purchase a nice compliant steel hardtail frame and save several hundred dollars.

Besides, I have the Cheeta in burly trail bike mode and I think it's going to be more than capable of trails such as Case, Nepaug, etc. etc.

 

[MikeD]

Dude, you're constantly, constantly changing frames, ain'tcha?

Do you want a 'freeride' bike, or an XC one? I ask because of your preference for steel...just know that the 'steel feel' is a holdover from road bikes. Steel is more compliant, but not when you're building big heavy stiff bikes from large tubes. So, you might notice the feel issue if you're riding a pure XC bike, but on bigger bikes, it can be insignificant or simply nonexistant. Plus, the design of the bike has more to do with feel than the actual material.

And we need to know what kind of geometry you want anyhow.

So, with that in mind, I'm riding a Nicolai BMXtb as the 'freeride bike' and a Mountain Cycle Rumble (with a looooong layback post and a long stem with flat bar and lightish build) as my 'xc bike.' The Rumble is an awesome, versatile frame, and can be had cheap...got mine from greenfish for $350. It's really stiff, but I've ridden my way to the opinion that stiff is good. I don't find much comfort in bikes that aren't stiff, and I do feel like they're more difficult to control.

I have been toying with the idea of ditching both bikes and getting a Sovereign, though.

MD

Edit: Just saw your last post. Seems you want an XC bike...I think Jenson usually has some Jamis frames at great deals, and Curtlo makes sweet skinny steel bikes custom for around $600, I think. Gunnar might be another option.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

MBC - I knew you'd chime in - I originally had hoped to buy a new FS frame, but it would probably be a wiser financial decision for me to purchase a nice compliant steel hardtail frame and save several hundred dollars.

I just don't think one (steel hard tail) replaces the other (full sus alum xc).

 

[MMcG]

I want a steel trail bike - one that can accept a single crown fork - say a new 2005 Vanilla or Float or Talas - not a freeride hardtail. Not a BMXtb or Evil imperial type of ride, but also not a true XC race hardtail that is designed around a 80mm fork or something like that.

This would be a bike that I would ride say at Monkeyfest in the Kingdom Trails at the 24 Hours of Dalton on a 5 man team. I'd like a 69 or maybe 70 degree HT angle, and fairly upright seat tube angle (not crazy slack like an IMP or your Nicolai).

Something along the lines of the frame in this thread on MTBR.com

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=50846

But the frame in that thread is probably beyond my budget right now.

I guess I should have been a little clearer in my original post.

 

[MMcG]

I just don't think one (steel hard tail) replaces the other (full sus alum xc).

I have the full squish in the Cheeta MBC.

I've come to realize that a smart thing for me would be to NOT buy a $1,000 or up full suspension frame at this time.

 

[MMcG]

Edit: Just saw your last post. Seems you want an XC bike...I think Jenson usually has some Jamis frames at great deals, and Curtlo makes sweet skinny steel bikes custom for around $600, I think. Gunnar might be another option.

Mike - I haven't changed frames so much - forks yes - but not frames.

And nope I don't want an XC hardtail per se, but more along the lines of a steel hardtail trailbike (along the lines of a Heckler or 575 or something like that - but not full squish). See where I'm going?

 

[pnj]

why steel?

 

[I Are Baboon]

I have the full squish in the Cheeta MBC.

I've come to realize that a smart thing for me would be to NOT buy a $1,000 or up full suspension frame at this time.

Are you going to race the hardtail at Dalton? Methinks that would be tough on one's body.

 

[Mackie]

I'd like one that is steel, not super heavy and set up with geometry that can accept at least a 4" and preferably a new 5" single crown fork.Mark

Sounds like a Cove Handjob to me.

If you are willing to go for a shorter fork, the On-One geraed Inbred is a damn nice machine as well.

 

[splat]

Are you going to race the hardtail at Dalton? Methinks that would be tough on one's body.

3 of my 4 laps were on my Hardtail at Dalton!

 

[MtnBikerChk]

3 of my 4 laps were on my Hardtail at Dalton!

You are HARDCORE!

 

[binary visions]

Just something to think about:

If you're buying a steel hardtail, you're talking about something that is going to last a long, long time. While doing it on the cheap is fine and dandy, personally I wouldn't have any problem dropping a big chunk of change for something like a Sovereign when we're talking about a frame that you can still be thrashing in 10 years if you feel like it.

The great fatigue life of steel combined with the simplicity of a hardtail, for a trail bike (i.e. something that you won't be grinding or casing dirt jumps with every day), means that you won't see that extra $400 in a few years when you're still happy with it.

Not trying to persuade you towards the Sovereign, per se (though it does look like a sweet frame), just pointing out that you're looking at something that's not as disposable as a full suspension aluminum frame. Versitile, too, if you ever get the inkling to set it up as a single speed, or a lightweight XC bike, or what have you.

 

[MMcG]

Your points are well taken Binary.

 

[MMcG]

why steel?

1. Steel will be more compliant than AL for the type of frame I'm looking for.

2. I think a Steel frame will have a longer life-span than say an AL frame

3. I just really like the look of steel tubing - just something about it.

4. This relates back to my road bike - I have a Steel Jamis Quest Reynolds 631 Steel (so not top of the line mind you) and I much preferred the feel of the steel frame over 3 other AL road bikes that I test rode including one AL road bike frame with carbon seatstays.

So those are a few reasons for my preference for steel.

 

[splat]

Yes so If you are going to get somehting that will last a long time go for the titanium

But I figure the way Mark has been going through bike/parts looking for the Holy grail of bike set-ups. Might as well convince him to get something I will be able to buy/trade from him later.


On the flip side My hard tail is an old specilized steel hardtail and it just keeps going along. Steel is real!

 

[MikeD]

The Cove idea sounds great...those are really nice bikes, much in the vein you're looking for.

To counter BV, if you're looking more for a stopgap frame to ultimately replace with an F/S, you might not want to spend all too much. Find a bargain and ride it until you get the F/S uberfahrrad of your dreams...

MD

 

[MMcG]

Mackie - you may have hit the nail on the head with the Cove Handjob suggestion. Now to see if it comes in orange or green. That is a frame I should give strong consideration.

 

[splat]

Mackie - you may have hit the nail on the head with the Cove Handjob suggestion. Now to see if it comes in orange or green. That is a frame I should give strong consideration.

Mark

talk to IF_rider , he has a Cove hardtail

 

[pnj]

how long do you think you will have this frame?

I say less then two years.

 

[MikeD]

One work, MMcG...krylon.

And if not, a powdercoat for a new HT should run you $50 or so and look great.

MD

 

[jacksonpt]

I was looking at the cove frames at Jenson earlier today - that matte black handjob looks very nice. I've always had a soft spot for Kona HTs, but that cove looks pretty sweet.

But it does come in orange...

 

[JRB]

I thought byStickels were reasonably priced. Does Kona not offer something that you would like? I haven't looked. Dean's steel bikes are Ionic. They might have something.

 

[douglas]

balck or silver

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product.aspx?i=FR610A00

 

[MikeD]

That Zion frame looks decent, too...

And have you looked for Soma cycles? They're cheap, too...

MD

 

[JRB]

That Zion frame looks decent, too...

And have you looked for Soma cycles? They're cheap, too...

MD

Julie has a Soma Smoothie road frame and it is well built and nice.

 

[JRB]

From Ionic -look here

 

[MMcG]

I thought byStickels were reasonably priced. Does Kona not offer something that you would like? I haven't looked. Dean's steel bikes are Ionic. They might have something.

Loco - I think initially Steve was building frames at lower prices just to get going, but I don't think he could make a go of it if he kept charging those prices. His work looks amazing and I'm sure his current rates are more than fair.

The Explosif might be the ticket in a Kona, but i'm not sure on the geometry numbers on it.

 

[MMcG]

That Zion frame looks decent, too...

And have you looked for Soma cycles? They're cheap, too...

MD

Zion, Soma, IRD - all too XCish for my tastes.

 

[JRB]

Loco - I think initially Steve was building frames at lower prices just to get going, but I don't think he could make a go of it if he kept charging those prices. His work looks amazing and I'm sure his current rates are more than fair.

The Explosif might be the ticket in a Kona, but i'm not sure on the geometry numbers on it.

Yeh - the 2 I have seen were awesome. I would look into the Kona if I had dough to plop down on a SS frame.

 

[splat]

what shock do you plan on using ?

 

[MMcG]

what shock do you plan on using ?

Shock - I don't plan on using any shock, it's a hardtail after all!

 

[MikeD]

Hm, well, I think most skinny-tubed steel bikes these days will be too XC-ish for you.

Check out the KHS Rigid-One at unrealcycles.com. Cheap and 'hardcore.' Can take a long fork.

MD

Edit: Also check out the Cortina Triton 4130. In fact, BMXman is selling one (my old frame, and I rode it 2x and he never even built it) in the 16" size. It's an awesome bike for you...slightly slack and short.

 

[splat]

Shock - I don't plan on using any shock, it's a hardtail after all!

Going for the rigid fork too!! you are a Man ! :devil: