Yeah, and those people that think a misfired rocket that kills an Iraqi child is just collateral damage and "the cost of war".ridetoofast said:
So I've decided to become Republican...
- Thread starter ghostrider
- Start date
apples and oranges...
no other gvt in history has gone to such lengths to aviod collateral damage.
abortion is 100% premeditated and avoidable...
your comparison is moot
no other gvt in history has gone to such lengths to aviod collateral damage.
abortion is 100% premeditated and avoidable...
your comparison is moot
If my example of a child that was alive and is now dead is moot, then so is yours.ridetoofast said:
you missed the part about abortion being COMPLETELY avoidable.
collateral damage in a time of war is not and to think otherwise is overly restrictive and foolish.
having said that, i do not support the current conflict, however i realize that deaths that you speak are an ugly aspect of war.
collateral damage in a time of war is not and to think otherwise is overly restrictive and foolish.
having said that, i do not support the current conflict, however i realize that deaths that you speak are an ugly aspect of war.
Please substantiate the first point. It would help to use an example of a time when you yourself were faced with being unexpectedly pregnant.ridetoofast said:
I do not think collateral damage in a time of war is avoidable. Many wars are, though.
there is the option of carrying the baby to term and putting it up for an adoption.
i think it is a sad reflection of our times when a woman can get an abortion and end a life in a matter of minutes, yet some people are forced to go the to other side of the world (i personally know a few couples that have done this) to adopt a baby.
i think it is a sad reflection of our times when a woman can get an abortion and end a life in a matter of minutes, yet some people are forced to go the to other side of the world (i personally know a few couples that have done this) to adopt a baby.
'Forced' to go the other side of world to adopt???
Are trying to tell me there are no children up for adoption in the US...they're all being aborted??
edit: I beleive these people have 'choosen' to adopt from thrid world countries, they were not forced.
Are trying to tell me there are no children up for adoption in the US...they're all being aborted??
edit: I beleive these people have 'choosen' to adopt from thrid world countries, they were not forced.
Dude, you are preaching to the wrong person. I've already stated I'm anti-abortion. I have no misconceptions about what an abortion is. BUT, interestingly, before the birth of my child, I was very much pro-abortion. I didn't give a crap and I didn't understand child development. I came out of the whole thing with a much clearer picture in my mind of what the pregnancy process is, the stages of development, what a child is. I think the process of abortion is a horrible reality of our society. On the other hand, my wife used to be very much against abortion. After our first child was born, I was surprised that our positions had reversed. What's my point? The WOMAN who actually has faced pregnancy and childbirth feels that she wants to retain the right to make the choices, NOW THAT SHE HAS GONE THROUGH IT HERSELF. It is clear to me THAT MYSELF OR ANYBODY ELSE IS NOT IN THE POSITION TO MAKE THAT CHOICE. It is just that simple. When you are pregnant, you can come back and spout off about it.
Something I wish those pro life Christians (which I am one) would spend their time letting these women know they would adopt their babies and help take care of their expenses during their pregnancy instead of standing in front of Planned Parenthood clinic's screaming "baby killer" or "your baby deserves to live".ridetoofast said:
When my wife was 18 and raped, if she would have had a family approach her about adoption and taking care of her during her pregnancy she would have taken that option in a heartbeat instead of the alternative.
Or when you're willing to adopt one of those babies.............ghostrider said:
This is exactly why I dislike the two party system. While it has it's benefits, openly declaring yourself as one or the other immidiatley places you on a side.N8 said:
Both reps and dems have good ideas. There are too many smart people in this world to conclude that just because someone belongs to a certain party that they stand for specific things and are wrong.
This is like assuming someone is an idiot because they are from China. Or because they are young, old, crippled, a man, woman, she-man, etc. I once struck up a conversatin with a homeless guy and was blown away at how articulate he was. But this was the life he chose.
I consider myself a conservative republican mostly based on economic issues. I do not believe it is the governments job to make decisions for people. There are too many 'ifs' and 'buts' on issues like abortion for me to ever tell someone that they can or can't have one. Decisions like those should be left up to the individual.
Government and God are intended to be kept seperate. If there are things that bother your religous views. Try to change them via persuasion, prayr, picketing, whatever.
I used to take the stance that anyone on welfare needs to work harder. I've since read a few books that made me realize that some people just got it bad. Many work harder than I do and just can't catch a break. These people deserve help, but not in the form of free money.
The people I see every day begging with a sign for 8 hours deserve a decent system for them to get and hold a job. If they don't take advantage of that system, fv*ck 'em. No spare change here.
I am conservative because I believe in a smaller, less wastefull government, that works within it's means for the benefit of society. It should not be the governments job to control and make personal decisions for it's citicens.
There is a tendency to demonize Republicans. My father votes Republican simply because he agrees with their financial policies.N8 said:
I suppose there are many aspects of the convervative platform like pro-religion or pro-war which upset people. I respect them although I don't agree with some of it. But I can appreciate the conservative viewpoint because there are times where I think we are too liberal, like mollycodding when the solution is fixing it yourself.
I also think there are problems in Democratic party, which why I refer to myself as a moderate.
Actually you are right, broad generalizations are pretty weak, and for that I apologize.sugarbushrider1 said:
And as for helping single mom's...hell I'm NOT republican and am all for scaling back the welfare system. Yes, helping those in need is important, but far too many people simply see it as a hand out...a way to sit on their asses watching their big screen rather then get a job. It isn't just in the US either, i see it just as much here in Canada.
Still, I would say i don't agree with 85% of the republican decisions, and am in complete and utter disbelief over probably half of them.
While i would normally agree with their fiscal policy, i do not under this term. I also would normally agree with ousting a tyranical dictator, but i can't when it is a unilateral action against ALL international law. And I REALLY do not agree with their new supreme court apointees, especially with the new information coming out. In my opinion, the constitution is a living document and should be allowed to grow and be interpreted differently as times change.
It's avoidable if you don't invase the country in the first place, with absolutely no legal grounds. It's a sovereign state jackass, like it or not you can't simply barge in.ridetoofast said:
What say I come into your house and shoot you in the head while you sleep, because i don't think you treat your wife properly. EXACTLY the same thing.
Which is exactly why the current administration should be universally despised by conservative and liberals alike:Biscuit said:
-Record spending (not very conservative)
-Pro-life (gov't making decisions for people)
-Anti-gay marriage (gov't making decisions for people)
-Anti-assisted suicide (gov't making decisions for people)
The only ones who can legitimately worship Bush and his cronies are the hardline Christians, Andyman excluded since he actually thinks for himself.
And then you hang out for 10 years at her place, reminding her that you're a liberator, and not an occupierTranscend said:
No, that's wrong too. Bush uses the Christian Right, because he knows that they aren't going to the Democrats as long as he throws them a few bones. The bones don't even have to have meat on them...although putting Roberts on the bench is a definite look in their direction. (Now, he is very qualified for the job. Certainly no Brownie. And he's not Miers either. Having said that, I'll be willing to bet that he's full of ****. I'm waiting to see how he rules on the Oregon case. Hopefully, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Anyone want to put a bottle of Chimay on it?)ghostrider said:
The people making out like bandits? Look at the income disparity trend. Those people are happy.
I universally despise pretty much all polititians... even though that goes against my previous statement of catagorizing people.ghostrider said:
Personally, I have come to believe that virtually all "higher up" politicians are there because they are good at playing the game. (see above: Bush throwing Christians meatless bones)
This is why I like, and support Arnold. Because he is challenging the beaurocracy, and pissing people off. The system is broken, he's trying to fix it, people are getting pissed because he's changing things.
Silver get's the award for the only thing in this thread that made me laugh.Silver said:And then you hang out for 10 years at her place, reminding her that you're a liberator, and not an occupier
Ah crap, I was wrong somewhere else, too? Impossible.Silver said:
Anyway, I hear what you are saying, but I argue the tax breaks are really just bone-throwing as well, albeit much larger bones. History shows that making the poor richer makes the rich even richer.
To elaborate on the "game":
In college I was fortunate enough to take a political science class tought by the mayor. He explained how in order to win an election, all you had to do, was define the major isues, poll, and place yourself just over the majority side. That way, the majority will side with you, and those on the borderline will often side with you.
Not to sidetrack this thread, but this is what I saw in every speech made by Kerry. Especially in his financial policies - there was no acutal substance, and basic economic theories seemed to contradict them.
In college I was fortunate enough to take a political science class tought by the mayor. He explained how in order to win an election, all you had to do, was define the major isues, poll, and place yourself just over the majority side. That way, the majority will side with you, and those on the borderline will often side with you.
Not to sidetrack this thread, but this is what I saw in every speech made by Kerry. Especially in his financial policies - there was no acutal substance, and basic economic theories seemed to contradict them.
Laci was more than 26 weeks pregnant. In most states she'd be charged for murder for getting an abortion.ridetoofast said:
Andyman_1970 said:
Bravo. Thoughtful progressive people want to prevent a problem, or mitigate the damage once they have a problem. Screaming at a teenager who is pregnant and going to a clinic only inflames the issue, it sets up an all or nothing win or lose situation. Helping to prevent pregnancies, and helping to provide adoptions for unwanted children is a lot more logical than screaming at people and piketing.
If the adoption process were simplier, more protected (for the adoptive parents) and cheaper(or more subsidized) I'm sure many of those unwanted children could be adopted out. Holly and I have even talked about adopting ourselves.
You're kidding me, right? I would elaborate but I see you've been shown the error of your ways on this one. Sheesh.ridetoofast said:
You forgot, one of her kids was killed in the process, and you don't just occupy the place, you tap her for oil.Silver said:And then you hang out for 10 years at her place, reminding her that you're a liberator, and not an occupier
But the surviving kids get new Nikes and strict Muslim law.
Dude, please document the process of tapping a woman for oil. I could really use that.ohio said:
Wouldn't you drill her for oil?ghostrider said:
The problem is a single mother that does not have a support system from parents/grandparent etc has to then pay for child support which often costs more than someone can make. I wouldn't say people who make poor decisions deserve our help but their children deserve the chance to become a productive part of society.sugarbushrider1 said:
I see a market for this.ghostrider said:
Right next to baby oil.
personally, i only tap the occupied national if she's hot.ohio said:
No they can't! Jeeze. If it's that easy, go to your local mental home and find jobs for all those people. Go to a homeless shelter and find jobs for all those people.sugarbushrider1 said:
Shockingly enough, there are groups of people who try to help the homeless all the time. There are organisations that have been set up for generations that have been trying to alleviate these problems. If it's so easy, maybe you should go and point out where they're going wrong, genius.
A story on a same theme:Changleen said:
I was running for the train, as some bum was begging for money. He was saying something "Give me this, Get me that.", so I yelled without stopping "Get a Job!!"
He responded by "You should get a life if you need to pick on the oppressed!" I almost stopped and went back up to ask him, "Who are you, Nelson Mandela?" (yes the bum was black).
I am not saying we should stop public assistance, but there is some need for people to take control of their lives.
Dude. WTF? Are you utterly divorced from reality? What part of illegally and uneccassarily invading a soverign nation and bombing the crap out of it's major cities is going to great lengths?ridetoofast said:
What about every government in History who hasn't started a war of choice?
Seriously, you've posted some dumb crap, but that really takes the biscuit.
Changleen said:Dude. WTF? Are you utterly divorced from reality? What part of illegally and uneccassarily invading a soverign nation and bombing the crap out of it's major cities is going to great lengths?
What about every government in History who hasn't started a war of choice?
Seriously, you've posted some dumb crap, but that really takes the biscuit.
cmon now. If he doesnt understand my home analogy, he sure as hell isn't going to understand international law.
Regardless of what the Bush does, the US military does it's best to avoid civilian casualties. Unfortunately the Bush has stuck them in an urban Guerrilla Warfare environment, where it's sometimes next to impossible to tell the enemy for the civilians. People make mistakes, when you're driving a tank or carrying an automatic weapon those mistakes have serious, often deadly consequences. We never should have invaded Iraq. It was wrong and there were other ways to deal with the situation.
The Abu Gharib house of torture, was another matter. I'm not going to elaborate much, but I have every reason to believe it originated in the Pentagon, which implies it came from the White house, I just can't prove it.
The Abu Gharib house of torture, was another matter. I'm not going to elaborate much, but I have every reason to believe it originated in the Pentagon, which implies it came from the White house, I just can't prove it.
Yeah it utterly disgusts me to see people who claim to love others unconditionally but yet participate in that kind of behavior (the yelling and screaming that is). Instead of stiving to bring Heaven to earth through how we live and interact with other, the church for the most part focuses on "sin management" more concerned with telling people what not to do than teaching them how to the difficult things Jesus teaches, like loving other people with no strings attached.Reactor said:
Ditto, I think Kelli and I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that way.Reactor said:
Hell, the AG's memos outling exactly how far we could go before we had to call torture torture are a good start.Reactor said:
Should I take offense to that?Changleen said:Seriously, you've posted some dumb crap, but that really takes the biscuit.
As far as the war goes...how do any of us know what was learned or not learned with regard to why we went to Iraq. All news...ALL OF IT... is spun somehow. One thing I have learned from getting my news and information from both sides of the fence is that the truth is somewhere in between. What does it matter now...we are there. One thing is for sure, I would rather be feared by many than cower because of a few.
A lot of poeple say the war is BS and we should look at our foreign policy/ how we have wronged these people. I have not spent any time w/ Al Qaida to see what they think. Any of you? Is it possible that they just merely have the same hatred for us that the Klan has for blacks or the Nazis had for Jews? We know they are intelligent, is it possible in their attempts to tear all christians down, they claim that it is our foreign policy that has wronged them? We know it's not Bush because they also attacked while Clinton was in office. Is it possible that "infidel" = "nigger"="kike"="cracker" to them? No offense. Just throwing the idea out there.
Abortion...I never could figure out how people have the time and why they make the effort to picket somewhere. Don't they work? I have opinions about things, but I have a job to go to. Why do people care what other people do? As long as you don't F**k w/ me and the ones I love, I don't care if you are going to terminate your preganancy. Who's business is it of yours anyhow? And yes, I have 2 daughters...3 1/2 and 6 months old.
Anyway one thing I have noticed...keeping in mind I consider myself moderate...is that the Liberals do a lot of whining and complaining, but never seem to offer an alternative solution. Solutions and compromise is needed a lot more from both groups of assholes.
A lot of poeple say the war is BS and we should look at our foreign policy/ how we have wronged these people. I have not spent any time w/ Al Qaida to see what they think. Any of you? Is it possible that they just merely have the same hatred for us that the Klan has for blacks or the Nazis had for Jews? We know they are intelligent, is it possible in their attempts to tear all christians down, they claim that it is our foreign policy that has wronged them? We know it's not Bush because they also attacked while Clinton was in office. Is it possible that "infidel" = "nigger"="kike"="cracker" to them? No offense. Just throwing the idea out there.
Abortion...I never could figure out how people have the time and why they make the effort to picket somewhere. Don't they work? I have opinions about things, but I have a job to go to. Why do people care what other people do? As long as you don't F**k w/ me and the ones I love, I don't care if you are going to terminate your preganancy. Who's business is it of yours anyhow? And yes, I have 2 daughters...3 1/2 and 6 months old.
Anyway one thing I have noticed...keeping in mind I consider myself moderate...is that the Liberals do a lot of whining and complaining, but never seem to offer an alternative solution. Solutions and compromise is needed a lot more from both groups of assholes.