so my Rio finally died...(mp3 player recommendation)

bdamschen · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
1 - gapless playback

I think you might run into trouble with that requirement. As far as i know (which isn't very much), I think the ipod is currently the only mp3 player to do gapless playback with their newest revision of the ipod. I would imagine that in a little while they'll all do it (apple seems to lead the pack in innovating these things), but for now it may just be ipod

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

bdamschen said:
I think you might run into trouble with that requirement. As far as i know (which isn't very much), I think the ipod is currently the only mp3 player to do gapless playback with their newest revision of the ipod. I would imagine that in a little while they'll all do it (apple seems to lead the pack in innovating these things), but for now it may just be ipod

Nah Rockbox firmware for various player do most of these features, battery life and finish isn't quite as good:

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox

Maybe he should look at the X5L 30GB or X5 60GB (depending on battery and storage needs).

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/

It might be good enough w/o firmware change.

bdamschen · Oct 4, 2006

That is cool, too bad it's only for 4G ipods and not my 3G.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

BTW narlus I ordered a 5.5G 80GB for $330 delivered. I haven't had a DAP for over a year. I sold my Karma before I moved from Wellington.

DRB · Oct 4, 2006

bdamschen said:
That is cool, too bad it's only for 4G ipods and not my 3G.

I saw one for the 3G.

syadasti,
Have you actually tried this? I'd like to mess with it but definately don't want to be in a position to not put it back to the Apple software. I'm sure I could read and find that out BUT....

bdamschen · Oct 4, 2006

I think no matter what you will still be able to put the original ipod software back on. No matter how hosed the firmware, you should still be able to use the restore software for it.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

DRB said:
I saw one for the 3G.

syadasti,
Have you actually tried this? I'd like to mess with it but definately don't want to be in a position to not put it back to the Apple software. I'm sure I could read and find that out BUT....

I would look at the FAQ/Wiki for Rockbox and forums, I owned the Rio Karma last so I had no need or option to try this.

http://forums.rockbox.org/
http://www.dapreview.net/e107_plugins/forum/forum.php
Or a brand specific forum.

bluebug32 · Oct 4, 2006

I have a Rio too (will never hop on the ipod bandwagon)

I was just reading that, I think it's Creative, that has a nice new player out. Not too expensive either. Lots of nice features on it.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
wow, that's a sweet price. what vendor?

CompUSA temporarily priced the white one at $319.99 with free shipping plus tax. JR wouldn't pricematch due to the tax, but $329.99 with free shipping and no tax is good enough (mine is still backordered at JR).

Look's like Apple's price control goons got to CompUSA though. Apple price control is BS and illegal :rant:

Transcend · Oct 4, 2006

The rockbox firmware tends to kill playback time for some reason.

Also, you can now build smart playlists on the fly with the "on the go" playlist. I never saw it before until my new 5.5g, so who knows if it was there before and I just never saw it.

Basically you just choose the song, say add to on the go list and done. Playlist building on the fly.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

Transcend said:
Basically you just choose the song, say add to on the go list and done. Playlist building on the fly.

Sounds a bit limited compared to the Rio version and 3 years late. Great innovation :biggrin:

Apple use Sigmatel and they own the rio IP and now employ some of their staff. We should see more "innovation" from Apple and other companies soon.

Besides merely adding to the playlist on the go, you had these options on the Karma via its database:

Rio DJ:
Entertain Me!: Generates playlist from most frequently played music. Mix can last 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8 hours, or all music.

Play All: Play everything and automatically sort by album, artist, genre, or year.

Top Tunes: Play the most frequently played tracks. You can choose from the top 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 100, or 250 songs.

New Music: Play the most recently imported tracks. Choose from music imported in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.

Memory Lane: Play tracks that haven't been played in a while. Choose from music not played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.

Sounds Of…: Play tracks from the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, or newer than 2000

Forgotten Gems: Play old favorites that haven't been played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.

Déjà Vu: Play tracks that have been played in the last 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, or 1 year.

Random Mix: Generate a random list lasting 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8 hours, or all music.

punkassean · Oct 4, 2006

if you can find the crackhead that smashed my window and ganked my iPod maybe you can score a sweet deal. I bet he'd take $20 or a nice phat rock that galldern sumamabitch.

Transcend · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
yeah, that playback flexibility was one of the Karma's greatest strengths. loved it.

Err according to my ipod, it has most of those features for playlists. Most popular, recently added, not recently played, top 25 rated etc. I wouldn't know, as I don't use them. My 3 year old mini did them as well, just not the on the go manual list.

Transcend · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
you need iTunes to construct those, though, right? i like being able to do it in my car, where i don't have a PC.

As far as I know they are built on the fly in the Ipod or maybe when the songs are trasnferred?

I know the on the go and best rated are built in ipod, as they are ranked and chosen on the device itself.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
you need iTunes to construct those, though, right? i like being able to do it in my car, where i don't have a PC.

On-the-go playlist support was added in 2004 for ipods. I was not aware of any advanced playlist features other than creating a simple playlist manually.

Here is a tutorial video:

http://www.apple.com/support/ipod/tutorial/ip_gettingstarted_t5.html

This page from 2005 agrees, on the go is limited on the iPod:

iTunes playlists vs. "On–The–Go" playlist

Obviously, within iTunes, you can create custom playlists, smart playlists, or just listen to the pre–made playlists that Apple includes with the software (such as Purchased Music, Top Rated, and Top 25 Most Played).

The difference between the "On–The–Go" playlist, and the playlists you create within iTunes, is that the "On–The–Go" playlist is the only playlist you can manipulate from your iPod interface.

And, in reality, the bulk of your playlists are better managed from iTunes, anyway. The "On–The–Go" playlist is just a quick and easy way to add selected songs – while you are "on the go."

.:Jeenyus:. · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
you need iTunes to construct those, though, right? i like being able to do it in my car, where i don't have a PC.

Yeah, you need iTunes to construct it, but if you set it up as soon as you get the iPod, you never need to touch those again and every song you add will automatically be sorted into them.

On the go playlists for ipods date back to 3G i do believe.

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

.:Jeenyus: said:
On the go playlists for ipods date back to 3G i do believe.

Simple OTG was added in 2003. Sometime in 2004 multiple OTG was added with additional features:

The previous generation of iPods [3g] introduced the ability for iPod users to make On-The-Go playlists while they were out and about with their iPods. The new iPods [4G] take that feature one better, by letting you save those playlists and create more, so you can have multiple on-the-go playlists. Unfortunately, if you're using the iPod's manual mode rather than syncing your iPod automatically with your computer, these playlists are wiped out when you plug the iPod back in to your Mac or PC.

It's also unfortunately that the iPod still doesn't support iTunes' method of filtering out artists who appear only in compilations from the artist list. For users with a lot of compilations on their iPod, those artists can really bog down browsing.

Click to expand...

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

.:Jeenyus:. said:
Yeah, you need iTunes to construct it, but if you set it up as soon as you get the iPod, you never need to touch those again and every song you add will automatically be sorted into them.

Yes those are called smart playlist, Rio has them too both on the device itself and through the software for custom ones.

zedro · Oct 4, 2006

and what about drag-n-drop? after owning a piece of crap Sony and their Sonic-Stage bile inducing software, i'd want to be able to swap files at pleasure. And screw DRMs....

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

zedro said:
and what about drag-n-drop? after owning a piece of crap Sony and their Sonic-Stage bile inducing software, i'd want to be able to swap files at pleasure. And screw DRMs....

I'd check Rockbox's page, I haven't looked at it closely.

Very few players have both UMS (drag and drop) and ID3 navigation support at the same time. Archos was one brand I know offhand that supported both. Third party software exist for players with that require software to enable drag and drop or other features. Each navigation method is useful for different reasons.

Rio had support for both at the same time in the works, but then Sigmatel bought them and you cannot buy their players anymore unless you want refurbished (if at all). Narlus - did Rio ever release their UMS support as a beta after the Sigmatel sale?

syadasti · Oct 4, 2006

narlus said:
you could use drag and drop for the Forge, but not the Cali or Karma. not sure if they released any firmware revision which would allow it.

i like drag and drop...the Rio Music Manager was pretty clunky.

You could use the red chair software Riorad for drag and drop if you wanted drag and drop (they also make Anapod for iPod)

Also the Karma had a build in webserver with java client for file transfers w/o installing software.

syadasti · Oct 5, 2006

Oh noes! It came today...

I have real earbuds too:

reflux · Oct 5, 2006

Q: Why did Rio stop producing the Karma?

syadasti · Oct 5, 2006

reflux said:
Q: Why did Rio stop producing the Karma?

Sigmatel (chipset maker for many DAP makers including Apple) bought Rio from Denon for their IP/employees, ended all other operations.

iPod chipmaker buying Rio Technology assets

By Prince McLean
Published: 07:00 PM EST [Apple Insider - Wednesday, July 27, 2005]

D&M Holdings Inc. announced today it has signed an agreement to sell certain intellectual property and other technology assets of the Rio MP3 player business to SigmaTel, Inc., Apple's supplier of integrated circuits for the flash-based iPod shuffle music player.

As part of the agreement, SigmaTel will hire most of the technical development personnel of Rio. Meanwhile, Rio will retain full access to its MP3 technology that it has agreed to sell to SigmaTel via a no-fee, grant-back license conditioned on its use of the SigmaTel platform in MP3 products, Tokyo-based D&M Holdings said in a statement today.

Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.

"Engineers from Rio and SigmaTel have worked together for years improving MP3 software and creating great value for the consumer," said Vic Pacor, president of D&M Holdings. "We are transferring the Rio technical and engineering resources to SigmaTel, where they can be better leveraged through SigmaTel's considerably larger scale in the MP3 business."

"We received an attractive offer for the Rio assets that we are selling, and we have secured access to enabling technology for the MP3 category of products without carrying the full cost of the technology," Pacor added.

Some insiders speculate that the move by SigmaTel to acquire Rio's assets may be a strategic one aimed at securing its prominence in the MP3 player market. While SigmaTel supplies Apple with controller chips for the nearly 1 million iPod shuffles it sells each month, the company is rumored to have lost technology bids for forthcoming flash-based iPods.

In a research note released to clients this week, Wall Street analyst Shaw Wu said PortalPlayer -- Apple's chip supplier for its hard disk drive (HDD)-based iPods -- may have secured a deal with the iPod maker to supply chips for a forthcoming 2GB iPod mini that would remain true to form while utilizing flash memory as opposed to HDD technology.

SigmaTel, whose technology can also be found within the latest MP3 players made by Creative, GoVideo, Memorex, Samsung and RCA, is expected to continue to supply Apple with chips for the iPod shuffle. Compared to PortalPlayer's forthcoming offerings, SigmaTel's chips for flash players are appropriately less complex and costly.

syadasti · Oct 5, 2006

narlus said:
you know i bought Riorad and i thought it sucked. definitely not worth the $30 or so i paid.

I haven't used any music manager I thought was worth anything, they all have flaws - that includes:

Musicmatch, iTunes, Rio MM, Windows Media Player (also works with Karma BTW), and a few others.

H8R · Oct 5, 2006

For the photog/music guy:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Specs&oid=61555441&category=Products

reflux · Oct 5, 2006

Thank you Syadasti, good to know.

My 2.5 yo Ipod is looking like it's about to kick it. The screen is becoming increasingly harder to read, and the battery life is at maybe 3 hours. Video, while cool, isn't a necessity for my needs. What I do want however, is decent battery life, a reliable player, and an easy-to-use software interface. Suggestions please??

Transcend · Oct 5, 2006

ipod nano 8gb? 24hour battery life or some nonsense.

so my Rio finally died...(mp3 player recommendation)

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