[robdamanii]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_on_re_us/airport_x_ray_screening

I guess the idea that irradiating people extraneously isn't a concern. Hello radiation!

 

[Slugman]

They do it in Israel w/out issue.

Besides - look at the image. it obviously isn't that powerful if it doesn't even penetrate the persons body (you can't see their sketal structure).

The warning limit for standard operating room level dosage is 5 minutes - and event hat won't casue any harm. You're talking about walking through something that will take all of 10 seconds... don't be so damn paranoid - you porbably get more radiation from your cell phone or sitting too close to your computer monitor.

 

[BadDNA]

"In addition, the system will be configured so that the X-ray will be deleted as soon as the individual steps away from the machine. It will not be stored or available for printing or transmitting, agency spokesman Nico Melendez said."

Yeah, I bet it will be configured that way...

 

[I Are Baboon]

I'm so sexy though that I've got nothing to hide.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

mandatory "i'd hit it"

 

[Lex]

I'm so sexy though that I've got nothing to hide.

(Obscure reference) Imagine what Derrick Smalls from Spinal Tap would look like walking through. Probably wouldn't be as funny as the metal detector though.

 

[reflux]

At an airport in Seattle this past weekend, I got to stand in this contraption that puffed air on my body. I still have no clue what the hell it was for, but it felt like a full body glaucoma test. Kinda cool.

 

[Slugman]

At an airport in Seattle this past weekend, I got to stand in this contraption that puffed air on my body. I still have no clue what the hell it was for, but it felt like a full body glaucoma test. Kinda cool.

Did that one earlier this year - it's an automated drug/bomb sniffing dog.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So let's recap: You got a blow job from a robotic dog?!?

That's sooooo worth going to the airport for!!

 

[MMike]

I would put a magnifying glass down my pants for the photo

 

[Slugman]

So let's recap: You got a blow job from a robotic dog?!?

With people watching...

 

[LordOpie]

At an airport in Seattle this past weekend, I got to stand in this contraption that puffed air on my body. I still have no clue what the hell it was for, but it felt like a full body glaucoma test. Kinda cool.

Next time...

What do I owe ya for the blow job.

or
Ahh... happy ending.

 

[DRB]

Britney is that you?

 

[H8R]

Susan Howell is not my type of GILF.

 

[urbaindk]

The key word here is "Backscatter." My guess is that they use a really low dose of x-rays or low-energy x-ray which doesn't penetrate very deeply.

My best guess as to how this works is this:

Some of these x-rays are reflected at the surface or very near the surface (i.e. backscattered). These are collected in a detector and then used to create the image. Some of the incident x-ray's energy is absorbed in the scattering event. The scattered x-ray's energy will have lower energy. The amount of difference in energy between the incident and backscattered x-ray depends on the type of material that the backscattered x-ray comes from. This gives rise to the contrast that you see in the image from the article.

Again these probably don't have enough energy to actually penetrate very far into the body and I'm sure the dose is very short in duration and the health risk is very minimal. In fact, I think to generate the image, the x-ray beam is rastered across the field of view in the picture similar to the way the electron beam is rastered across a TV screen to create a TV image. At each point in the raster cycle, the backscattered x-rays are collected and each one of these collections corresponds to one pixel on the image you see. Basically, you are only exposed to enough x-rays in a point by point fashion to get enough signal to make an image. Depending on the quality of the detectors, that probably isn't very much.

Science aside, I find the image represented in the article very revealing and wouldn't necessarily want random security personnel ogling my wife or children. In that respect, I find this is technique very intrusive.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Did that one earlier this year - it's an automated drug/bomb sniffing dog.

I have seen these used, and I knew they could be configured to smell other substances besides explosives, but it was my understanding that they were ONLY used for explosives detection.

Were you told differently?

 

[reflux]

Science aside, I find the image represented in the article very revealing and wouldn't necessarily want random security personnel ogling my wife or children. In that respect, I find this is technique very intrusive.

Freedom hater. Why do you want the terrorists to win?



All joking aside, thanks for the great info. For us non-engineer folks, it's starting to make sense. Interesting stuff.

 

[Reactor]

The key word here is "Backscatter." My guess is that they use a really low dose of x-rays or low-energy x-ray which doesn't penetrate very deeply.

My best guess as to how this works is this:

Some of these x-rays are reflected at the surface or very near the surface (i.e. backscattered). These are collected in a detector and then used to create the image. Some of the incident x-ray's energy is absorbed in the scattering event. The scattered x-ray's energy will have lower energy. The amount of difference in energy between the incident and backscattered x-ray depends on the type of material that the backscattered x-ray comes from. This gives rise to the contrast that you see in the image from the article.

Again these probably don't have enough energy to actually penetrate very far into the body and I'm sure the dose is very short in duration and the health risk is very minimal. In fact, I think to generate the image, the x-ray beam is rastered across the field of view in the picture similar to the way the electron beam is rastered across a TV screen to create a TV image. At each point in the raster cycle, the backscattered x-rays are collected and each one of these collections corresponds to one pixel on the image you see. Basically, you are only exposed to enough x-rays in a point by point fashion to get enough signal to make an image. Depending on the quality of the detectors, that probably isn't very much.

Science aside, I find the image represented in the article very revealing and wouldn't necessarily want random security personnel ogling my wife or children. In that respect, I find this is technique very intrusive.

That's pretty close to my understanding of the process. The radation exposure from the x-ray is far less than the radiation exposure from the flight. Most of the X-rays are absorbed by various materials (hydrogen compounds, mostly) on the person being x-rayed. My impression for the reading I did was that the backscattered x-rays are processed by a computer which measures the level of reflected radiation and forms an image on a remote monitor. I'm sure there is going to be a save button, because the image would become part of a legel process. It's more like a cat scan crossed with a sonar instead of a traditional x-ray. If you have piercings they will show up, even some tattoos might show up depending on what the ink contained.

We were talking about it last august.

 

[Slugman]

I have seen these used, and I knew they could be configured to smell other substances besides explosives, but it was my understanding that they were ONLY used for explosives detection.

Were you told differently?

Not specifically - but with a big grin the TSA guy told me that they can detect "anything" they wanted.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Not specifically - but with a big grin the TSA guy told me that they can detect "anything" they wanted.

TSA screener: "Whoa whoa whoa....where are you going with that footlong hot dog young man....."
Random person: "Ummm....I just went through the blower thingy.......again."

 

[urbaindk]

That's pretty close to my understanding of the process. .[/URL]

I just read a little more about it. I was pretty much right on. Only thing I obviously got wrong was that x-rays do fully penetrate. Still no big deal because the dose is low.

Read up on x-ray scattering and the Compton effect if you want the nitty gritty.

 

[Silver]

Not specifically - but with a big grin the TSA guy told me that they can detect "anything" they wanted.

If it can detect explosives particles, it can detect drugs if you set it up that way. Nice to see that we're more worried about Phish fans than Osama...priorities, man!

 

[kidwoo]

If it can detect explosives particles, it can detect drugs if you set it up that way. Nice to see that we're more worried about Phish fans than Osama...priorities, man!

Phish phans phund osama

by buying weed grown in their friend's basement

 

[Reactor]

I just read a little more about it. I was pretty much right on. Only thing I obviously got wrong was that x-rays do fully penetrate. Still no big deal because the dose is low.

Read up on x-ray scattering and the Compton effect if you want the nitty gritty.

I'm pretty much up on radiation. Hence the name, it was my job until I decided working with reactors and bombs wasn't the smartest thing to do.

I've not seen anything on the energy levels of the x-rays, which affects how much is absorbed and how much is going to pass through a a low energy level most of the x-rays would be absorbed very quickly. At high energy levels a typical person wouldn't stop even 1/4 of x-rays.

I believe much of the information in wiki on this device is suspect. If you've got another source please post the link, it's been about a year and a half since I read anything remotely technical about this device.

 

[Reactor]

some info:


Alhtough they usae active server pages, so how interested in security can they be...

 

[stinkyboy]

Well, I'm off to the airport now - Just to show off...

 

[urbaindk]

I've not seen anything on the energy levels of the x-rays, which affects how much is absorbed and how much is going to pass through a a low energy level most of the x-rays would be absorbed very quickly. At high energy levels a typical person wouldn't stop even 1/4 of x-rays.



some info:

According to the plot and info on the page, they are probably using between 500 keV and 1 MeV radiation and if my E=h*nu calculations are correct that would gamma radiation -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electromagnetic_spectrum.JPG But let's not quible over a few thousands of eV's shall we...


Stinky: be sure to cover your harblz with a lead plate.

 

[MikeD]

Science aside, I find the image represented in the article very revealing and wouldn't necessarily want random security personnel ogling my wife or children. In that respect, I find this is technique very intrusive.

That's why the specially-selected personnel operating these machines will be in small, dark, curtained booths, viewing the images through one-way glass with chrome trim to ensure privacy. And N8 will be there to mop the floor during shift changes.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

That's why the specially-selected personnel operating these machines will be in small, dark, curtained booths, viewing the images through one-way glass with chrome trim to ensure privacy. And N8 will be there to give happy endings during shift changes.

Fixed...

Speaking of...Lately, I'm kinda glad I don't have to gloss over the ignored posts that he puts up ....makes scrolling a lot easier...

 

[MikeD]

News flash: TSA tried implementing this technology at Sacramento airport, but made the mistake of trying to scan the Governator. Witness the results:

 

[Reactor]

According to the plot and info on the page, they are probably using between 500 keV and 1 MeV radiation and if my E=h*nu calculations are correct that would gamma radiation -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Electromagnetic_spectrum.JPG But let's not quible over a few thousands of eV's shall we...


Stinky: be sure to cover your harblz with a lead plate.

If I remember my 20+ old nuclear science, gamma becomes pretty hard to shield up as you get into the mev range.

The following table provides HVLs, in inches of shielding material, for various gamma energies and materials. HVLs in inches for various energies and materials. At 2 mev it's pretty hard to shield.



Energy MeV Lead Iron Concrete Water
0.5 0.2 0.4 1.3 3.0
1.0 0.3 0.6 1.8 3.9
1.5 0.5 0.7 2.3 4.8
2.0 0.6 0.8 2.6 5.5

Anyway "high energy x-rays" have an energy level in the mev range, which violates the typical em spectrum chart. And it's used for

Compton spectroscopy for the investigation of momentum distribution of the valence electron shells.

We always defined a Gamma and a X-ray by is it's source, not it's energy. Gamma rays are high energy photons from a the nucleus nuclear and X-rays come from an electron interaction. Of course if you had one in a bottle you couldn't tell the difference.

 

[DaveW]

That's why the specially-selected personnel operating these machines will be in small, dark, curtained booths, viewing the images through one-way glass with chrome trim to ensure privacy. And N8 will be there to mop the floor during shift changes.

POTD!

 

[TheMontashu]

They do it in Israel w/out issue..

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title. When I went to isreal there were soldiers with M16s at the gate, I was interogated for 15 or so minuts before I could even deposate my bag. My bag was Xrayed right infront of me so in case I did have something I could be delt with right away. After going over to israel I think american ari port security is a joke.

 

[skinny mike]

so with all of this fancy shmancy equipment, does this mean the tsa people will recieve the training so they can use the equipment properly and effectively?

Not specifically - but with a big grin the TSA guy told me that they can detect "anything" they wanted.

i'm gonna fart when i go through that thing then.

 

[skatetokil]

you're going to have lines of pedos and assorted other perverts around the block trying to become xray operators. its gonna be hillarious.

 

[skatetokil]

t-6 months until there are stories about sex offenders getting caught beating it on the job at your local airport.

you heard it here first.

 

[Silver]

so with all of this fancy shmancy equipment, does this mean the tsa people will recieve the training so they can use the equipment properly and effectively?

Most TSA screeners need extra training to be able to read their name badges. This is just another "Here's a fancy gadget, now you're safe!" stopgap.

 

[MikeD]

POTD!

Looks like the "Total Recall" reference fell flat, though.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Looks like the "Total Recall" reference fell flat, though.

Movies pale in reference to N8 doing anything remotely humiliating around men....or women for that matter.

 

[reflux]

Looks like the "Total Recall" reference fell flat, though.

Whatever, I got it and thought it was a good one.

Did you happen to watch South Park the other week? The kids were in Aspen skiing while their parents got schemed into a timeshare. I bring this up because there was a sweet Total Recall reference at the end. "Quade, you must start the reactor."