[azonicbruce]

What a bummer! I was getting all pumped up to get this thing built up the way I wanted it and I come across what seems to be the very thing that gave the company its now infamous nickname.

Closeup of previous

Closeup of previous

What do you think? The welds on the outside look absolutely perfect but paint can cover up flaws so that's not the best indicator. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or should I really be concerned?

I've already emailed Cannondale so I'll see what they have to say I guess.

Brand spankin' new, too :angry: :mumble:

 

[Sir_Crackien]

the second pic shows it the best. looks really bad to me! talking about poor quality control! looks like the heat of the weld crack the pipe or something along those lines.

 

[KleinMp99]

Brand new = you should easily be able to get a new frame.



Cannondale......hhahhaha :nuts:

 

[Brad23]

That would seem to suck, cracks behind the welds, but I'm no real engineer, I just wanted to say nice pictures. What camera are you using?

Good luck with that, Brad

 

[aussiedude]

I hope you kept the receipt!

 

[dG video]

I really think it will be fine depending on the type of riding you plan on using it for, it looks like maybe a XC frame so I would just ride it, and when it crumbles, you'll have warentee and if there was cracks under the paint you would see it...

Just keep close watch of it and keep your bike in tip-top shape and you will be fine, I rode a cracked RM7 for almost a year with no problems...

 

[azonicbruce]

That would seem to suck, cracks behind the welds, but I'm no real engineer, I just wanted to say nice pictures. What camera are you using?

Good luck with that, Brad

Canon D30. I'm lucky I have a nice camera so I can show exactly what's going on.

Real sucky part is I know they're going to want me to work things out through my dealer. I'm sure if I would have shown it to the dealer they would have told me it's no big deal. I'll see what Cannondale says.

Btw its a Gemini

I was really getting excited about this frame...

 

[zedro]

i would at least touch base with the issue right away, regardless of what will be done about it in the immediate future.

i just cant beleive how thin that headtube is.

 

[Jm_]

New contract;

 

[scofflaw23]

Send 'er back, no way in hell should a new frame look like that.

 

[lanman]

What year is that? Is it new or used?

 

[vitox]

Send 'er back, no way in hell should a new frame look like that.

yea no need for YOU to find out how much riding time it takes before that front end collapses.

i saw something similar on a trek y-bike, that one came back because the steerer snapped.

 

[Knuckleslammer]

That is absolute crap man. Take it back and get your money back and buy something else. No excuse for that crap.

 

[Rik]

but bogged welds can cover up flaws

True, so don't use them as any sort of indicator.
Time to talk about warranty...

 

[Lexx D]

Not that it needs to be said but send that bad boy in. In no way should it cost you a dime not even shipping. Good luck with can-o-ale.

 

[esr]

don't buy crack and fail

 

[azonicbruce]

New contract;

If you read my post, I have already contacted Cannondale, and I just contacted my dealer this morning. This is more of a FYI, what's your opinion thread.

 

[azonicbruce]

What year is that? Is it new or used?

It is a 2002; it is new.

I know Cannondale had a recal on 2002 frames but the recall stated it was only for Medium and Large frames. Mine is a small. Of course that doesn't mean much considering what I've found.

I just thank my lucky stars I actually bought it from a dealer and not off eBay or I'd really be screwed :nuts:

 

[Kornphlake]

hmm, I'd just take it back to the shop you bought it from and ask them if they'll give you a 2004 frame off their floor while you wait for them to resolve the warranty issue with Cannondale. You bought that assembled right??? Didn't their mechanics notice that when they were pressing in the headset or sliding the steerer tube through the headtube?

 

[azonicbruce]

hmm, I'd just take it back to the shop you bought it from and ask them if they'll give you a 2004 frame off their floor while you wait for them to resolve the warranty issue with Cannondale. You bought that assembled right??? Didn't their mechanics notice that when they were pressing in the headset or sliding the steerer tube through the headtube?

They don't have any Geminis in stock.

As far as their mechanics, they were the yahoos who did a hack job on removing the headset and reducer cups. I was under the impression that a Cannondale dealer would have a "special tool" for removing the 1.5 spacers. Well, they were simply took a 1-1/8 tool and "worked their way around" the spacer 'til it popped out. Hack job I tell you.

I'm seriously thinking of investing in some headset tools so I can make sure the job gets done right.

 

[Kornphlake]

Don't buy DIY. For as often as you'll use the tools you can get away with nogger rogging something with a few pieces of PVC, a bolt, a nut and some washers.

Doesn't cannondale or any other manufacturer expect a certain level of competence out of their dealers? That's why we have 3 service centers in the entire world for our products, they're not that hard to figure out but if you don't have a couple of special tools and a spare part or two you'd never be able to get one put back together. We send our service manager out the repair centers around the world to make sure our service techs know what they're doing before they get the tools.

 

[OGRipper]

When I first started working in a bike shop there was a drugged-out alcoholic wiry Irish mechanic, the kind of guy that could party all night, eat a couple raw eggs and then go drag a bunch of semi-pros around on a group ride all day, who used to sing this every time he had to work on a Cannondale:

"Oh Cannondale Oh Cannondale,

Your tubes are fat and prone to fail."

Thanks for the memories.

 

[Ciaran]

I used to weld for a living. Any crack like that behind a weld is bad. It is a sign of poor workmanship caused by someone who either was not paying attention or who is an amature, incompetent welder. Like everyone else said, there is no excuse for that. Especially on a new frame. I would bet that it left the factory like that. Looks like the welder was too hot and weakened (SP?) the head tube material. Dang, that ain't right. I know that I'll never buy a cannondale after seeing that. Poor welds, poor quality control. The really sad thing is that it's not *that* difficult to weld correctly. There is no excuse for that.

 

[TheMontashu]

Cdale = lifetime warinty

 

[azonicbruce]

Cdale = lifetime warinty

Actually, it's only 3 years for the Gemini. Still, that's much longer than any of the competition.

But it still begs the question... good warranty or not even needing the warranty?

Hyundai has a sweet warranty...10 years. Honda only has a 3 year warranty. I'd pick a Honda anyday.

I know its not apples to apples, but...

 

[syadasti]

Actually, it's only 3 years for the Gemini. Still, that much longer than any of the competition.

For Apples to Apples, FR to FR.

Ironhorse is 5 years on the their FR frames (but 1 on the DH frames) and has awesome CS.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Technically that is not a crack, it's called "burn through" and it happens from time to time. This doesn't mean that it's okay, that is a pretty excessive amount of penetration into the headtube. Normally the backside of headtubes are pretty thick to prevent this, as welders will use more weld penetration at head/top/downtube junctions due to the incredible amount of stress this area sees. However, that is too much. You should never be able to see the weld from the inside of a tube IMO, but I'm not actually a welder so maybe that's not always the case. Anyway, if it's a new frame C-Dale should warranty that crap ASAP.

 

[azonicbruce]

Technically that is not a crack, it's called "burn through" and it happens from time to time. This doesn't mean that it's okay, that is a pretty excessive amount of penetration into the headtube. Normally the backside of headtubes are pretty thick to prevent this, as welders will use more weld penetration at head/top/downtube junctions due to the incredible amount of stress this area sees. However, that is too much. You should never be able to see the weld from the inside of a tube IMO, but I'm not actually a welder so maybe that's not always the case. Anyway, if it's a new frame C-Dale should warranty that crap ASAP.

Yep, that's what I've been guessing was the cause. I've had a chance to TIG weld and boy did I suck at it. I couldn't keep from burning through the material. Brazing, on the other hand, I was much better at...

Btw, James you should be happy this happened. Now theres a really good chance that I'll sell the replacement and get an AS-X from you guys

 

[frorider]

i've only looked inside a coupla gemini headtubes but they were smooth. yours looks wack, defective...what did the dealer end up doing for you?

 

[azonicbruce]

As of today the status is this...

The frame is being sent in to Cannondale for them to inspect (Was sent in Monday 8/23).

If they determine that it is defective then I'll probably get a frame replacement.

Only thing is i have no clue what. Only 1 model for '04 has the QR dropouts; all the other and ALL of the '05 frames have the 12mm axle. Also, I don't know if they intend giving me my Vanilla RC back or if they'll upgrade the shock as well. If they only give me a Vanilla ProPedal R then I'll ask for my RC back so that at least I can "Push" it if I want.

That'd be cool if I got upgraded to 12mm, but I have no clue what they'll "offer" me as a replacement, IF I get one.

Dealer said it could take up to 2 weeks.

Guess the good thing is that all the new stuff for '05 is rolling in, so I might be able to get some stuff I thought would take too long to wait for

 

[TheMontashu]

20 mil axle on o frame????? try 12

 

[azonicbruce]

DOH! :nuts: Corrected...

 

[azonicbruce]

UPDATE:

So, it's been a little over a MONTH since I sent my frame in. Status: STILL no frame and STILL no word yet on when they'll replace it. They tried to "hook me up" with a new black front triangle. Hmm...black front triangle and yellow/orange swingarm. Can you say....ghetto?! I could understand if this was a frame I had beat up on for awhile but for crying out loud I didn't even get to ride the thing! It's a brand new frame why can't they send me a BRAND NEW replacement? Oh, that's right, they don't have ANY in stock, I'm told.

At first I tried being nice and patient about this but I think I've been patient enough. I've constantly been told how "great" Cannondale's customer service is, but if it's been a MONTH and still no frame yet, I'd hate to see what there customer service would be like if it was "bad".

Take this Cannondale... :nuts:

Rant over... :angry:

 

[dan-o]

return that POS and buy something else.

 

[azonicbruce]

return that POS and buy something else.

Problem is I DID return it. Until I get something BACK from them I can't sell it and get something else. :mumble:

 

[Echo]

If you never built it up, it's still new. Tell the dealer you want your money back. I doubt they will give you your money back but it might kick them in the ass to start bugging Cannondale more.

If I were you I would be calling that shop every day, and stopping in there at least twice a week to make sure they are riding Cannondale's ass hardcore. They probably have plenty of phone calls to make and plenty of stuff to do - you need to make sure you are at the top of the list by reminding them constantly that you are waiting.

 

[dan-o]

The shop you bought it from is ultimately responsible. They should give you a full refund since the product was defective at time of sale. At the very least, you should get the cost of the frame applied to a new purchase, but I wouldn't accept that personally. There is no reason why you should be left hanging in this situation, the dealer and c'dale can work out the warranty issue once you've been taken care of.

 

[Kornphlake]

Call your credit card company and have them reverse the charges, once that process is initiated the LBS might get on Cannondale a little more seriously.

 

[azonicbruce]

If life were only that simple

See the problem is this:

I bought the complete bike, reason being the shop owner would give me a better deal on the whole bike rather than frame only.

So, I buy the bike and planned to sell the parts. So I tear down the bike and lo and behold that when I discover the poo-poo in the headtube. (I hate to imagine what would have happened if I hadn't stripped the bike down).

Since I was "assured" that the warranty process would be quick, I decided to just go ahead and sell the parts I didn't want and get ready to buy the new parts I wanted so that once the replacement arrived I'd be ready to go.

Sooo, I can't reverse credit card charges; I sold half the bike. And I can't really ask for my money back either since, again, I sold half the bike. I'd be dumb to ask for what the frame's worth back but of course the dealer would lowball so at this point the best I can do is bug the crap out of them to get a replacement sent.

It sucks you think by being calm and patient, they'll see that and work to make you happy, but it always seems like you have to resort to being an a** to get things done.

 

[Echo]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease... it sucks but you gotta play the game...