[MMike]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96187971


Now how wrong would that be? I mean, bailing out the banks so that the system itself doesn't collapse is one thing. But a big company that was run into the ground? Unfortunate, yes. But that's about it. Just because they employ (too) many people, doesn't mean that's Joe Sixpack's problem!

Red commie pinko talk that is......

 

[Defenestrated]

These companies need to be broken up.

Too big to fail is too big to exist.

 

[jimmydean]

Yes, but Joe Sixpack needs a new Silverado and if GM folds, he would be forced to buy a F@rd. Friends don't let friends buy F@rds.

 

[skinny mike]

jesus, who's going to be asking for handouts next? the porn industry? as if there weren't enough bjs being given in washington already...

 

[jimmydean]

jesus, who's going to be asking for handouts next? the porn industry? as if there weren't enough bjs being given in washington already...

Dude, the pr0n industry will never be in trouble. If people are too poor to buy porn, I'm out of a job.

 

[TheMontashu]

I'm so sick of GM and Ford whining they are broke. They were the ones REFUSING, not just not producing but flat out refusing to build cars that get good millage. That is what they get for being **** heads and thinking they can force everyone to drive suburbans

 

[stinkyboy]

I'm so sick of GM and Ford whining they are broke. They were the ones REFUSING, not just not producing but flat out refusing to build cars that get good millage. That is what they get for being **** heads and thinking they can force everyone to drive suburbans

They had 30+ years to respond after the OPEC BS in the 70's and continue to fail and fail and fail.

 

[trailhacker]

I'm so sick of GM and Ford whining they are broke. They were the ones REFUSING, not just not producing but flat out refusing to build cars that get good millage. That is what they get for being **** heads and thinking they can force everyone to drive suburbans

Ummm.... how did they "force" anyone to buy anything?
The reason they kept building them is because people kept buying them.
Supply. Demand.

If they made a decent quality CAR, or at least decent looking, they would be doing a whole lot better.

BTW, I think they should fail if they are going to. No government bailouts.

 

[Echo]

Ummm.... how did they "force" anyone to buy anything?
The reason they kept building them is because people kept buying them.
Supply. Demand.

Um, I think the problem is, people aren't buying them. Demand for SUV's declined, but the US automakers kept building them. If people were buying the SUV's, the US automakers would not be losing their shirts.

 

[Squeak]

Whats jacked up is that they want money from the Gov to be able to make "fuel efficient" cars, and then they will also lobby to get the MPG restrictions pushed back 10 years as well because they can't make the deadline.

What a load of Poo.

 

[ohio]

I'm so sick of GM and Ford whining they are broke. They were the ones REFUSING, not just not producing but flat out refusing to build cars that get good millage.

Not true at all. Ford especially has numerous small, efficient vehicles sold overseas. They just don't think the American public wants them... or didn't until this summer. Expect them to arrive by next summer.

 

[jimmydean]

Not true at all. Ford especially has numerous small, efficient vehicles sold overseas. They just don't think the American public wants them... or didn't until this summer. Expect them to arrive by next summer.

All GM cars/trucks built in Brazil are Flex-Fuel because it's mandated. They have a whole bunch of 40+mpg cars that wouldn't pass EPA in the US (and especially California) or safety standards.

 

[TheMontashu]

Not true at all. Ford especially has numerous small, efficient vehicles sold overseas. They just don't think the American public wants them... or didn't until this summer. Expect them to arrive by next summer.

if Americans don't want small cars why is for loossing there asses to small car sales?

 

[ohio]

All GM cars/trucks built in Brazil are Flex-Fuel because it's mandated. They have a whole bunch of 40+mpg cars that wouldn't pass EPA in the US (and especially California) or safety standards.

http://media.gm.com/intl/opel/en/compactclass/index.html

 

[ohio]

if Americans don't want small cars why is for loossing there asses to small car sales?

feel free to go back and edit those typos. It took me a few passes to decipher.

I didn't say Americans don't want small cars. I said they didn't want them until this summer.

You said that Ford and GM refused to make small cars. This is wrong. They already do make small cars and have been making them for decades. They just haven't brought them to the US.

I said we will see them next summer. This is because we have these little things called DOT and EPA regulations that these cars must pass before they can be sold in the US.

The big three are slow and reactive, but there is NO conspiracy other than stupidity, legacy, and bureaucracy.

 

[$tinkle]

jesus, who's going to be asking for handouts next?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2008-10-22_D93VPAF00&show_article=1&cat=breaking

 

[TheMontashu]

feel free to go back and edit those typos. It took me a few passes to decipher.

I didn't say Americans don't want small cars. I said they didn't want them until this summer.

You said that Ford and GM refused to make small cars. This is wrong. They already do make small cars and have been making them for decades. They just haven't brought them to the US.

I said we will see them next summer. This is because we have these little things called DOT and EPA regulations that these cars must pass before they can be sold in the US.

The big three are slow and reactive, but there is NO conspiracy other than stupidity, legacy, and bureaucracy.

Ford killed there electric car project and forced every one who had them to give them back to be destroyed. Ford set those cars up to have much shorter range than is possible in an electric car, so it would discourage people from buying them. (some electric cars are getting like 300 miles per charge) When people actually found a use for a car with a 40 mile range and the program saw some limited success ford not only pulled the program but totaled the cars

 

[ohio]

Ford killed there electric car project and forced every one who had them to give them back to be destroyed. Ford set those cars up to have much shorter range than is possible in an electric car, so it would discourage people from buying them. (some electric cars are getting like 300 miles per charge) When people actually found a use for a car with a 40 mile range and the program saw some limited success ford not only pulled the program but totaled the cars

So you've seen "who killed the electric car?" huh?

Seriously, now, it's a bogus conspiracy theory. Ford AND Toyota put out some test vehicles as a research exercise and weren't happy with the results. You don't just LEAVE test vehicles in the market, especially with consumers. Huge liability, inability to service and maintain, and they've outlived their R&D usefulness.

Why don't we see electric vehicles in Europe, where the geography is denser, and distances and cars are much smaller?

 

[MMike]

Hoo boy....as ohio said prototypes are always destroyed.

Those prototypes were not road-worthy....in the legal sense. The have to be crash tested to meet the standards of the day.....(among many many many other factors)

That Ford Eco-star never did that well....or maybe it did very well. I don't remember. It was a long time ago.

 

[TheMontashu]

So you've seen "who killed the electric car?" huh?

Seriously, now, it's a bogus conspiracy theory. Ford AND Toyota put out some test vehicles as a research exercise and weren't happy with the results. You don't just LEAVE test vehicles in the market, especially with consumers. Huge liability, inability to service and maintain, and they've outlived their R&D usefulness.

Why don't we see electric vehicles in Europe, where the geography is denser, and distances and cars are much smaller?

They could have produced a car that was actually viable with a 250-300 mile range, but they didn't


And no, I didn't see that movie, but I have heard of it and know what it's about

 

[sanjuro]

I'm so sick of GM and Ford whining they are broke. They were the ones REFUSING, not just not producing but flat out refusing to build cars that get good millage. That is what they get for being **** heads and thinking they can force everyone to drive suburbans

While TheMontashu is full of stupid unsubstantiated opinions, I agree with his assessment of our automotive industry.

You can get big ass cars or retro-mobiles, but no good small or midsized vehicles, which is what is popular or mandated by the government.

Naturally, our industry is far behind in the electric/hybrid business as well.

I am wondering what it will take to revamp the entire design process for the US Auto Industry. When Ford or GM closes, will that change the culture?

 

[$tinkle]

can we combine this thread w/ the union one?

 

[ohio]

I agree with his assessment of our automotive industry.

That there's a conspiracy to preevnt us from getting electric vehicles? Don your tinfoil hat, my friend.

Look, I've been the first to bash the American automotive industry in this forum, and I think a Chrysler or GM bankruptcy, unbailed out by government, would be the best thing to happen to it (not to mention very well deserved). But the fact is the industry is slow, blind, and tied to it's cultural legacy which is killing it and failing to deliver quality, efficient cars to the public; it is NOT maliciously trying to keep cars from the public.

 

[sanjuro]

That there's a conspiracy to preevnt us from getting electric vehicles? Don your tinfoil hat, my friend.

Look, I've been the first to bash the American automotive industry in this forum, and I think a Chrysler or GM bankruptcy, unbailed out by government, would be the best thing to happen to it (not to mention very well deserved). But the fact is the industry is slow, blind, and tied to it's cultural legacy which is killing it and failing to deliver quality, efficient cars to the public; it is NOT maliciously trying to keep cars from the public.

I didn't mean TheMontashu's WTC7 opinion, but about the car industry and their lack of innovation.

 

[Defenestrated]

There is no innovation because we are using convenience as a crutch.

 

[trailhacker]

Um, I think the problem is, people aren't buying them. Demand for SUV's declined, but the US automakers kept building them. If people were buying the SUV's, the US automakers would not be losing their shirts.

No argument there.
My point was a counter-point to the idea that the US auto industry somehow "forced" people to buy SUV's. The people proved that they wanted them by buying them in record numbers so the USAI kept pumping them out.
Now they are all losing there ass trying to trade them in for a little gas pump relief.
And the USAI is sitting on inventory, losing their asses, because people have seen the fuel effiecient light.