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...so when does the student loan crisis hit?

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Hello Kitty

Monkey
Nov 25, 2004
432
0
Houston
Except Reagan's too liberal to run under the banner of today's GOP. Fvck, Atillah the Hun is too liberal for today's GOP.
Paul Ryan is a true conservative.


RYAN: The president has opted for divisive rhetoric and the broken politics of the past. He's going from town to town impugning the motives of Republicans, setting up straw men and scapegoats and engaging in intellectually lazy argument as he tries to build support for punitive tax hikes on job creators.

RYAN: Instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were the hallmarks to his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by preying on the emotions of fear, envy, and resentment. This has the potential to be just as damaging as his misguided policies. Sowing social unrest and class resentment makes America weaker, not stronger.

RYAN: Pitting one group against another only distracts us from the true sources of inequity in this country. Corporate welfare that enriches the powerful and empty promises that betray the powerless.

RYAN: This is what I call "the fatal conceit of progressivism." It's upside down. It's the presumption that money and wealth made and created in America is the government's unless they benevolently expend it back to people.

RYAN: No one is saying we don't need good schools and roads and infrastructure as a basis for a free society and a free enterprise system. But the notion that the nucleus of our society is the government and not the individual -- the family, the entrepreneur -- is, to me, just completely inherently backwards.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
No, he's an *actual* small business owner, which means that the GOP still hates him. Now, if he had 300 employees and was pulling in $50m/year in annual sales, then they'd love him (and still call him a "small business owner")...
^^^This. Small business has no allies in DC.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,828
27,043
media blackout
No, he's an *actual* small business owner, which means that the GOP still hates him. Now, if he had 300 employees and was pulling in $50m/year in annual sales, then they'd love him (and still call him a "small business owner")...
b-b-b-b-but he pulled himself up from his bootstraps!

:panic:
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
You don't think that they *actually* want people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, do you? Then they'd start competing with all the rest of the "small" businesses like Trek, Specialized etc.





(technically Trek/Specialized are slightly over the limit, as their sales are ~$800m but the cutoff for sporting goods manufactures is only $500m. still disturbing that a manufacturer can have $500m in sales and still be categorized as a "small" business.)
 

spam16v

Monkey
Oct 27, 2004
284
0
Buffalo, NY
Wait what? You only pay on loans for 20 years? I was under the assumption, you had to pay them off... I took out a loan, I have to repay it.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,205
429
Roanoke, VA
you are correct.
your parents must be proud
And alive!

Honestly though, I could give a f^ck about my debt.
I have it, and I'm never going to get rid of it.
I have a surprising number of friends(former small business owners) who've been chased around by various liens for years.
The IRS is a whole different animal. I knew 2 former restaurant owners in withering tourist towns who've committed suicide over the last 5 years after being hassled abused and intimidated by IRS auditors.
SUICIDE. TAXES. WOW.


Don't renew the drivers license, cancel the phone and other proof of residence, use cash and the student loan people aren't going to find you unless the Ed Dept manages to raise an paramilitary investigative arm.

For standard business bankruptcy you're(for the most part) clear after about 10 years. A decade is a long time to stay off of the grid but there are still plenty of low-wage jobs where you can get paid under the table.

Of course thanks to that frikking resolution a few years ago student loan debt is the only kind of debt that you can't shed during personal bankruptcy. Living on the lamb would suck, but a new identity and a fresh start wouldn't be too bad. I know a few people on the Southern coast with sailboats, so the carribean is always an option. MMM coconuts.
Cool huh?

 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
I personally think that *all* government (ie, taxpayer) backed debt should not be able to be discharged through bankruptcy (*especially* mortgage debt), but that's just me. Don't want the government coming after you? Don't borrow from them. :)
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
And alive!

Honestly though, I could give a f^ck about my debt.
I have it, and I'm never going to get rid of it.
I have a surprising number of friends(former small business owners) who've been chased around by various liens for years.
The IRS is a whole different animal. I knew 2 former restaurant owners in withering tourist towns who've committed suicide over the last 5 years after being hassled abused and intimidated by IRS auditors.
SUICIDE. TAXES. WOW.


Don't renew the drivers license, cancel the phone and other proof of residence, use cash and the student loan people aren't going to find you unless the Ed Dept manages to raise an paramilitary investigative arm.

For standard business bankruptcy you're(for the most part) clear after about 10 years. A decade is a long time to stay off of the grid but there are still plenty of low-wage jobs where you can get paid under the table.

Of course thanks to that frikking resolution a few years ago student loan debt is the only kind of debt that you can't shed during personal bankruptcy. Living on the lamb would suck, but a new identity and a fresh start wouldn't be too bad. I know a few people on the Southern coast with sailboats, so the carribean is always an option. MMM coconuts.
Cool huh?

Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,205
429
Roanoke, VA
Little late for that- and for tons of 17-18 year olds who were clueless about what money was, and pressured from every angle to go get themselves a fancy-pants college degree.
I knew I was doing something stupid when I went to such an expensive college with a life goal of working in either the bike industry or academia. "All" I need to do is pay about $280~$300 a month, seem(ed)s like a small amount of money, but hey, turns out life is pretty damn expensive.
The lack of a "real" job within the first 2 years of graduation seems to put people in a hole they can never get out of for lots of reason, from bank account balance to employer perceptions. For every kid who got a "reasonable" degree in biochemistry(to work for big pharma) there are 5 that studied education because they wanted to make a real difference in society. Lame. Instead of educating children we are medicating them.

While all of these kids were in college Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Conservatism converged to export(intractably) damn near every job in America. Let's not kid ourselves, blue collar jobs create white collar jobs.

The government is responsible, highly responsible, the only people responsible for creating the rules and regulations that allowed our jobs and wealth to slip away. Lack of true healthcare reform(gutting the insurance industry), "free trade" and all of the various and sundry financial and ethical travesties over the last 30 years all happened thanks to a broken political system and compounded into the really, really ****ty world we live in now.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,205
429
Roanoke, VA
mickey, in the years i've known you, this is the tin foiliest you've ever gotten :rofl:
Dude- the scary thing is that I'm perfectly serious. I wish my hat was tinfoil. I know former bike shop owners that now live in the shadow economy and IRS-induced suicides. My dad is an accountant/bookeeper in a resort town. The stories I hear...
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,828
27,043
media blackout
i can only imagine the kind of homoerotica that goes on behind closed doors at tea party meetings. i'm picturing hello kitty at the center of the all male bukakke.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,165
10,105
thanks to a new accountant the IRS will be owing my dad about 11,000 grand.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
it's easy to cherry pick old quotes, but gold has done pretty well over the last 12 months

It still sucks as a hedge against inflation. I'm not saying it wasn't a great investment since 2000, but in terms of protecting you from inflation it's usually pretty bad.

Personally I think we're experiencing a commodities bubble desperately propped up by the Fed to stave off deflation, but that's just me...
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,767
8,762
I'm definitely going to hit the forgiveness mark. I've already been in economic hardship forbearance for 7 years(thank god that's possible).

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to stave off payments another 13 years.
Uh, I think that it's 20 years of making payments. Forbearance doesn't count. You still have 20 years ahead of you. Congratulations.
Just to stress this again: 7 years of forbearance (or deferment) counts as NOTHING towards this 20 year loan forgiveness that's being implemented. One has to make payments--even 10%-of-gross-income payments under IBR count, but payments nonetheless--to have that 20 year clock counting down.

After 20 years of responsible payments under the income-based repayment (IBR) plan, the remainder of a federal loan will be forgiven under Obama’s new plan. Currently, those remaining debts are forgiven after 25 years.
Also implied by the above is that if someone picks the 30 year fixed payment schedule instead of IBR then the loan will not be forgiven at 20 years. Makes sense.

Source: Student loan forgiveness: 5 ways Obama wants to ease student debt - New loan-consolidation offer - CSMonitor.com
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
21,835
9,137
Transylvania 90210
Honestly though, I could give a f^ck about my debt.
I have it, and I'm never going to get rid of it.
OIC, the "herpes" philosophy.

I know I'm pulling a
but my hospital time got in the way back when the thread started.

Many of the unemployed folks I know have decided to take their funemployment checks to the bank, then pull student loans to go back to school. At one level, I see the wisdom of using the jobless period for self betterment. However, planning to use the maximum time you can get , and then some, while going into debt for a degree in a subject that won't result in a job that will allow you to pay off your debt is just dumb. I see enough folks doing it, that I'm left to believe there are many dumb people in the world. At least hit a trade school, where you can finish in less than four years (or longer, now that classes are impacted) and stand a chance to make a return on investment that will pull you out of debt. It isn't ready, fire, aim (and bitch about missing the shot).
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,002
7,886
Colorado
OIC, the "herpes" philosophy.

I know I'm pulling a
but my hospital time got in the way back when the thread started.

Many of the unemployed folks I know have decided to take their funemployment checks to the bank, then pull student loans to go back to school. At one level, I see the wisdom of using the jobless period for self betterment. However, planning to use the maximum time you can get , and then some, while going into debt for a degree in a subject that won't result in a job that will allow you to pay off your debt is just dumb. I see enough folks doing it, that I'm left to believe there are many dumb people in the world. At least hit a trade school, where you can finish in less than four years (or longer, now that classes are impacted) and stand a chance to make a return on investment that will pull you out of debt. It isn't ready, fire, aim (and bitch about missing the shot).
This is exactly true. I know a few people for whom it was more fiscally advantageous to not get a job and go back to school while unemployed. However, they were smart enough to get degrees in technical topics.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
Another Debt Crisis Is Brewing, This One in Student Loans - NYTimes.com

Who is to blame?
Stupid mom and stupid daughter. Not for being poor and going to NYU, but for being poor, going to NYU and getting a WORTHLESS degree.

It's just a terrible example on which to base an article, asking this question. You would have to assume that most people going to college are going to be more responsible than people who took out the liars loans for their mortgages, if only because you cant bankrupt your way out of the debt... but is another meltdown imminent?
There should be less places for worthless degress like that but you can't make them financialy exclusive for rich people. Even if what they did was really REALLY stupid.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
the free market disagrees

no offence
Go to Iceland, Chille or some other country that faced bankcupcy because of your free market or shut up. People are stupid but even if they are you don't want them to be angry. Well unless you are fine with living in a walled house and not going out after 10pm. Because that's where it will go when economic anarchy that you love goes into place.

You don't have to ban those places to make ICENTIVES to limit those spots. Tax cuts for degrees that create jobs and higher taxes for unis that want to do a lot of worthless degrees.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Go to Iceland, Chille or some other country that faced bankcupcy because of your free market or shut up. People are stupid but even if they are you don't want them to be angry. Well unless you are fine with living in a walled house and not going out after 10pm. Because that's where it will go when economic anarchy that you love goes into place.

You don't have to ban those places to make ICENTIVES to limit those spots. Tax cuts for degrees that create jobs and higher taxes for unis that want to do a lot of worthless degrees.
do you believe your life is measurably greater, or lesser, due to the free market?

i believe mine is much better, mostly b/c while i know there are safety nets in place, there's also a very large reward waiting for me, but i have to go get it, and the gov't will only help me so much, if at all.

create your own destiny
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
do you believe your life is measurably greater, or lesser, due to the free market?

i believe mine is much better, mostly b/c while i know there are safety nets in place, there's also a very large reward waiting for me, but i have to go get it, and the gov't will only help me so much, if at all.

create your own destiny
The fact that your job is government/taxpayer supported makes that statement hilarious...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
The fact that your job is government/taxpayer supported makes that statement hilarious...
not at all
i do not receive compensation from an entitlement per my work, as we have to recompete in the free market for the privilege of doing work in service to the injured soldiers/vets

so to rephrase for clarity: i do not subsist on a gov't handout, i make money the old fashioned way...i earn it (props to john houseman)
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
So.... where can we find the open bid process that the government used to pick your company? I'm assuming that it's out there since the US Government would have had to put out an RFP, define the guidelines and minimum qualifications for it, and then choose your company from all of the companies that submitted bids, right?