[Bikael Molton]

It seems to me like Whiz would lose more money running the mountain with social distancing, than they would staying shut and doing additional financial shenanigans to move debt around.

1 rider per quad lift? 6+ feet between riders in the lift line? uh...

 

[kidwoo]

It seems to me like Whiz would lose more money running the mountain with social distancing, than they would staying shut and doing additional financial shenanigans to move debt around.

1 rider per quad lift? 6+ feet between riders in the lift line? uh...

.......not to mention the logisitics of mountain EMTs having to peel injured people off the hill. It's not realistic.

 

[kidwoo]

.......not to mention the logisitics of mountain EMTs having to peel injured people off the hill. It's not realistic.

Something they might consider is offering a 20$ 'access ticket'. No lifts. You can climb the hill or push up it. Then you get to ride bike parky stuff and the social distancing occurs naturally since people will be more sparse.

20 bucks covers some basic trail maintenance which would also be at a reduced demand with far less traffic.

By limiting access to people willing to work for it, you also by default only have people who are more functionally independent and more likely to be able to get themselves off the hill, in addition to an expectation that you're more 'on your own' than normal.



And for god's sake keep out the filthy americans. We have no self awareness whatsoever.


edit: on second thought I just realized this encourages the purchase of ebikes. Nevermind. No one needs that. Gotta think of the greater good here.

 

[jonKranked]

Something they might consider is offering a 20$ 'access ticket'. No lifts. You can climb the hill or push up it. Then you get to ride bike parky stuff and the social distancing occurs naturally since people will be more sparse.

20 bucks covers some basic trail maintenance which would also be at a reduced demand with far less traffic.

By limiting access to people willing to work for it, you also by default only have people who are more functionally independent and more likely to be able to get themselves off the hill, in addition to an expectation that you're more 'on your own' than normal.



And for god's sake keep out the filthy americans. We have no self awareness whatsoever.


edit: on second thought I just realized this encourages the purchase of ebikes. Nevermind. No one needs that. Gotta think of the greater good here.

this would work at my local mountain, there's official public access both the top & bottom of mountain. shuttling would be pretty ideal there.

 

[kidwoo]

this would work at my local mountain, there's official public access both the top & bottom of mountain. shuttling would be pretty ideal there.

Shuttling would end up being shit show in some places (like whistler, or northstar by me). I was thinking push/pedal.

 

[marshalolson]

Summer lift operations are a value-add to lodging guests (“advanced commitment products” in the PR blurb) that these mountains offer.

Ie. lift operations are directly tied to certain occupancy metrics being achieved (or not) at key milestone dates.

For them it’s simple math. They will loose their ass either way. Does operating or not operating lose them less money?

As far as solvency, Vail, Alterra, et al will be just fine. Why? Because the tourism industry of entire states / territories are dependent on them existing. This is the definition of “too big to fail”.

 

[kidwoo]

As far as solvency, Vail, Alterra, et al will be just fine. Why? Because the tourism industry of entities states and territories are dependent on them existing. This is the definition of “too big to fail”.

Nonsense I say!
We all existed just fine before vail and alterra bought everything. That bullshit has only been in place the last few years. Those mountains and communities were there for years before they sat on all these previously existing towns and lift networks.

Make the Mountains Great Again!

 

[jonKranked]

Shuttling would end up being shit show in some places (like whistler, or northstar by me). I was thinking push/pedal.

the particular mountain close to me has parking top and bottom. main lodge at bottom, secondary lodge up top. it's on a ridgeline and there's a road that goes over it, so it would be super easy to shuttle.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah most mountains have that, infrastructure isn't what I was talking about.

More like able and willing population base that would fucking mob it with pickup trucks making a bigger shitshow than if the lifts were running.

 

[jonKranked]

Yeah most mountains have that, infrastructure isn't what I was talking about.

More like able and willing population base that would fucking mob it with pickup trucks making a bigger shitshow than if the lifts were running.

this mountain only draws big crowds on race weekends. i think shuttingling would be feasible.

also most mountains on the east coast only have infrastructure (specifically public road access) at the base of the mountain.

 

[sethimus]

Something they might consider is offering a 20$ 'access ticket'. No lifts. You can climb the hill or push up it. Then you get to ride bike parky stuff and the social distancing occurs naturally since people will be more sparse.

so you are saying they should open the mountain to ebikers?

 

[kidwoo]

so you are saying they should open the mountain to ebikers?

I told you I realized my mistake.

*don't hate me bro

 

[kidwoo]

this mountain only draws big crowds on race weekends. i think shuttingling would be feasible.

also most mountains on the east coast only have infrastructure (specifically public road access) at the base of the mountain.

Send some emails. Even the ones in crowded places could limit 'passes'



I'm thinking about this especially on mountains that sit on USFS land.

 

[jonKranked]

Send some emails. Even the ones in crowded places could limit 'passes'



I'm thinking about this especially on mountains that sit on USFS land.

fair enough.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Self-shuttling any trails puts you in the same Covid risk (maybe worse?) as not social distancing in the lift line, unless you are only shuttling with your immediate family. Land managers and mountain owners won't endorse that publicly as long as distancing is the regional public health policy.

But if you shut up about it and don't promote it all over Instagram and Strava, I bet the average USFS LEO has more important shit to worry about.

 

[kidwoo]

Why I mentioned pedaling/pushing up


I'm just being nice to john and humoring him


You do pickup truck rides in the back but states and laws and stuff.

 

[jonKranked]

Why I mentioned pedaling/pushing up


I'm just being nice to john and humoring him


You do pickup truck rides in the back but states and laws and stuff.

i'm on hour 6 of conference calls today. i'm just trying to keep myself awake.

 

[cecil]

I just checked, we can get 150ft of vert down the third of a mile of dirt and grass. That's not far off a run at Mountain Creek

You have to throw a couple of concrete blocks in the grass randomly then it's exactly mountain creek

 

[6thElement]

You have to throw a couple of concrete blocks in the grass randomly then it's exactly mountain creek

If we dive left and huck off the one set of rocks I guess I can pretend it's Stigmata

 

[SkaredShtles]

Is it crazy to think that Keystone, Winter Park, and Vail will still open? They usually open in mid-late June so they don't need to start that procedure for another month+. My DH bike order evaporated and I was told there's only a slim chance they'll find another one but I was holding out hope.

I'd wager that's pretty crazy...

 

[SkaredShtles]

Nonsense I say!
We all existed just fine before vail and alterra bought everything. That bullshit has only been in place the last few years.

This. I'd like to see these fucking resorts seen as a public recreational attraction as opposed to the usual real estate/moar profit/stockholder shit.

I know... wishful thinking, right?

 

[kidwoo]

 

[Westy]

Just install Lysol misters in the lift lines.

 

[djjohnr]

Shuttling would end up being shit show in some places (like whistler, or northstar by me). I was thinking push/pedal.

You heard any rumblings about N*?

 

[kidwoo]

You heard any rumblings about N*?

Nah but I also haven't asked. That place is still plastered so it doesn't really matter at this point. That's the vail borg so I don't know if that will be a company-wide decision since they're still bound by gubernatorial directives in each state.

 

[Nick]

Is it crazy to think that Keystone, Winter Park, and Vail will still open? They usually open in mid-late June so they don't need to start that procedure for another month+. My DH bike order evaporated and I was told there's only a slim chance they'll find another one but I was holding out hope.

I think there is little to no chance. Friends in the know up in Grand County said WP is just hoping to have a normal start to 20-21 SKI season. Nobody is thinking Trestle will open right now.

 

[marshalolson]

Nonsense I say!
We all existed just fine before vail and alterra bought everything. That bullshit has only been in place the last few years. Those mountains and communities were there for years before they sat on all these previously existing towns and lift networks.

Make the Mountains Great Again!

Not saying I agree with it (I strongly don’t), but I do believe this will be the case:

VR is a publicly traded company, a provider of many jobs, major campaign donator in many many states and countries, and essentially an entire global cottage industry reliant on them running.

Not only will they not go insolvent, they will be primed to acquire MORE independent mountains who cannot continue as an outcome of this.

Mark my word

 

[kidwoo]

VR is a publicly traded company, a provider of many jobs, major campaign donator in many many states and countries, and essentially an entire global cottage industry reliant on them running.

I'm only going to say this one more time. Most of those jobs already existed. But they were run locally and not by distant capital investment shit heads, and village chain stores.

I do not give a fuck if this new system (and it is new) fails. But it's going to take some communities magically developing the ability to grow a pair. If NYC can keep out walmart, so can steamboat.

Talk to your local county supes and mayor


(actual photo)

Not only will they not go insolvent, they will be primed to acquire MORE independent mountains who cannot continue as an outcome of this.

Mark my word

No way! Just like the 2008 financial crisis, banks were downsized and more tightly regulated, housing became affordable for the common man through regularly available loans, and sensible zoning went into place!

You mean to tell me those most padded in cash stand to benefit the most from tragedy? My goodness, how unusual.
Of course you're right but a girl can dream can't she?

In the meantime I'll be doing my part to shame everyone I know who takes part in the that system. I just point and scream "KILL KILL KILL" every time I run into some prick who hops on a plane 6 times a year just to go to another ski hill while thinking they're saving the world because they bought a patagonia jacket.

 

[kidwoo]

The kind of entitled twats that skiing caters to are just so god damned annoying.

Utah skiers underwhelmed by Ikon, Epic pass response to spring season cut short by COVID-19

Tony Fantis is the kind of guy who buys travel insurance. He knows among Americans he is an outlier. Still, whenever he takes a trip abroad, which he says is pretty often, he budgets in insurance as part of the cost.

www.sltrib.com

Tony Fantis is the kind of guy who buys travel insurance. He knows among Americans he is an outlier. Still, whenever he takes a trip abroad, which he says is pretty often, he budgets in insurance as part of the cost.

Fantis is also a skier. Yet this season the Salt Lake City realtor had only gotten in four days before resorts across the country abruptly closed last month to stem the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

Poor little guy was having to travel the world and missed out on all his ski days THROUGH MID-MARCH. Demand satisfaction! Harumph!

I'm enjoying the hell out of the tantrums however. That's one unintended benefit that I'm just giddy about.

 

[marshalolson]

I'm only going to say this one more time. Most of those jobs already existed. But they were run locally and not by distant capital investment shit heads, and village chain stores.

The reason those mountain were (mostly) for sale in the FIRST place is they were ALREADY failing. It’s just always been a shit business, and it’s been getting progressively worse the last decade+.

There is nobody to immediately buy these mountains that could actually turn on operations quickly if VR fails. Over time? Yes. But in a season or time horizon? Totally skeptical.

Staffing up whistler alone in a normal winter for operations will burn 100 million dollars ... unless you are already operational experts in exactly that field, why bother? The risk profile is enormous!

 

[FlipFantasia]

Whistler Blackcomb didn't sell to Vail because they were failing, fyi.

 

[kidwoo]

There is nobody to immediately buy these mountains that could actually turn on operations quickly if VR fails.

I don't know what mountains you're talking about but all the ones here were doing just fine and posting record visitation before the borg showed up. I mean that's WHY vail bought northstar, heavenly and kirkwood a while back. The little struggling ones are the ones that they haven't touched.

edit: (what flipfantasia said)

 

[FlipFantasia]

I don't know what mountains you're talking about but all the ones here were doing just fine and posting record visitation before the borg showed up. I mean that's WHY vail bought northstar heavenly and kirkwood a while back.

edit: (what flipfantasia said)

Yup, WB went public, spent more than a few years dialing in their ops, development, long term plans, being really successful and pumping up the value, then cashed the fuck out

 

[SylentK]

Not sure how they do it in Canada, but my understanding for Colorado is that most ski resorts/bike parks lease the land from the BLM. So technically, even if the resort didn't "open" with lifts and restaurants, etc. A visitor should still be able to recreate on land owned by the BLM. Just like in the winter, you are usually allowed to self power yourself up the hill, at major ski areas. Not having to buy a lift ticket. Why wouldn't this be the case in summer time? Especially if you're riding non-bike parked trails. I'm refering to the USFS trails you can access from ski resorts. Not the bike park trails. That would be kind of douche to ride those and not reimburse the bike park crew itself, if it were forced to close.

Point being, we should be able to ride trails at resorts on BLM land even if the lift/ticket office is closed.

Am I on crazy pills again?

Oh, and yes, ebikes. You know how many laps I could do at Granby Ranch on an ebike and laugh the entire time?! MMMmmmmm....ebikes....CoronEbikes!!!

 

[kidwoo]

Am I on crazy pills again?

Yes

USFS, not BLM


My access pass idea was just for maintenance and some semblance of take out restaurants in a base area. But yes, unless someone issues a forest order for the particular area in question, you can ride all over the place. You may not be able to park there but you should be able to ride there.

 

[Nick]

Am I on crazy pills again?

Keystone hillclimb?
I'm in!

 

[Bikael Molton]

I think you can pedal up and ride bike parks on FS land, though they don’t advertise that.

People definitely do that at Big Bear, though that place is not worth it.

 

[SylentK]

Yes

USFS, not BLM


My access pass idea was just for maintenance and some semblance of take out restaurants in a base area. But yes, unless someone issues a forest order for the particular area in question, you can ride all over the place. You may not be able to park there but you should be able to ride there.

Thanks for that clarification.

Will probably be the year of the searching for the lost goods of USFS trails. Get your maps out now!

Or is it the summer of "social trails"? No one around, let's build some new shit we've always wanted to!

 

[kidwoo]

Check old USGS 7.5 minute maps.

Some gems on there.

 

[FlipFantasia]

Not sure how they do it in Canada, but my understanding for Colorado is that most ski resorts/bike parks lease the land from the BLM. So technically, even if the resort didn't "open" with lifts and restaurants, etc. A visitor should still be able to recreate on land owned by the BLM. Just like in the winter, you are usually allowed to self power yourself up the hill, at major ski areas. Not having to buy a lift ticket. Why wouldn't this be the case in summer time? Especially if you're riding non-bike parked trails. I'm refering to the USFS trails you can access from ski resorts. Not the bike park trails. That would be kind of douche to ride those and not reimburse the bike park crew itself, if it were forced to close.

Point being, we should be able to ride trails at resorts on BLM land even if the lift/ticket office is closed.

Am I on crazy pills again?

Oh, and yes, ebikes. You know how many laps I could do at Granby Ranch on an ebike and laugh the entire time?! MMMmmmmm....ebikes....CoronEbikes!!!

Ski areas in BC on Crown Land (Provincially owned/managed) typical operate under a controlled recreation area designation which essentially restricts access at all times. This reminder was in the most recent club email yesterday.