[Silver]

And once again, the US is interesting because as far as religious faith compared to most of the metrics used to measure a society, it is an outlier.

edit:

Also, I wasn't saying that US is a theocracy. Your glib response was that there was no way to measure the results of religion on a society. The question about a theocracy you'd like to live in was my equally glib reply.

 

[enkidu]

The fact is, yes, abstinence is the safest possible form of birth control. It is also extremely unrealistic..... teaching abstinence and nothing else IS NOT WORKING, even with those most receptive to the message. Safe (or "safer" if you insist) sex practices MUST be taught as the next best option, because teenagers WILL have sex. No one WANTS unplanned teen pregancies, and no one WANTS an abortion. We can drastically reduce both if we just start doing a better job of educating our children.

"Natural Family Planning" teaches how to check when ovulation is taking place. It does take more nuanced sexual approach and probably not too practical for one-night quick hook-up type of sexual relationship. But it's not as if total abstinence is required all the time to benefit from the knowledge of the method.

Isn't it better to stress the healthier natural aspect of incorporating sex into a long-term intimate relationship rather than sidestepping it as just "extremely unrealistic"? I guess I'm merely questioning what to include in the "better job of educating our children" you speak of.

 

[Silver]

"Natural Family Planning" teaches how to check when ovulation is taking place. It does take more nuanced sexual approach and probably not too practical for one-night quick hook-up type of sexual relationship. But it's not as if total abstinence is required all the time to benefit from the knowledge of the method.

High failure rate, and no protection from STD's.

Besides, I never figured out how people who think that sex without the express purpose of having children thought this was a good idea. God knows you're trying to cheat...

 

[enkidu]

High failure rate, and no protection from STD's.

Besides, I never figured out how people who think that sex without the express purpose of having children thought this was a good idea. God knows you're trying to cheat...

Yup, the STD will have to be treated and protected against for sure.

Have you ever read "The Theology of the Body"? It's far from treating sex and human bodies as baby-making machines (or quick pleasure-inducing toys, for that matter.)

 

[Silver]

Have you ever read "The Theology of the Body"? It's far from treating sex and human bodies as baby-making machines (or quick pleasure-inducing toys, for that matter.)

Nope.

But actions, as I've heard it remarked, speak louder than words. The Catholic Church is still against contraceptive use, is it not?

 

[Andyman_1970]

But actions, as I've heard it remarked, speak louder than words.

Yeah, I guess they forgot to teach the book of Song of Solomon in their Bible classes at Catholic seminary.................

 

[Silver]

Yeah, I guess they forgot to teach the book of Song of Solomon in their Bible classes at Catholic seminary.................

They forget that one everywhere. You don't want the kids asking too many questions about sex.

At least that was the case when I was growing up. I remember giggling over the Song of Songs many a time as a lad...

 

[JRogers]

And I think it does a huge disservice to society because it clouds the root causes of success and failure in something that really has little or no effect on them.

I wouldn't be so sure about the "little or no effect" part. Just because true causality is, well, basically impossible to establish in this context, it does not preclude us from trying and having some measure of success. Certainly, any kind of reductionist strategy that narrows and limits the causes of particular phenomena to a single category of influences is immediately suspect. That is why the more successful people who have studied this type of thing have always included some amount of error- a disclaimer and description of the other forces at work in a society. One of the most famous and important scholars of this century, Weber, built his primary thesis on the social effects that religious causes have. Not perfect, but his analysis is fairly sound. Maybe we just need someone with a vision and mind grand enough to write the seminal work of this century on religion and moral guidance in this age.