[Sandwich]

I know everybody hates comparison threads, but I'm looking at either of these bikes for next seasons racing/dh ride and was wondering if anybody has experience on both, or at least the SOCOM. I'm looking at lightly used frames for racing and "free-dhing", in that I won't be hucking, but I won't be racing either. I guess that's what freeriding is...but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

So I like the SOCOM's higher BB and Intense's still being in existence, but the Sunday has the geometry I'm looking for and the reputation of being one of the best bikes out there....SOCOM is verging on "hyper-light" and I am on the heavier side (i think) at 200lbs. Sunday is no longer supported by IH, but bearings and replacement parts should still be reasonably easy to get in the aftermarket and from other frames. I'm also scared of the low BB, as I clip my pedals enough with a 14.1" and 175mm cranks.

Any comments? I don't hear the SOCOM discussed very much here...so I'm unfamiliar with it.

 

[William42]

I know everybody hates comparison threads, but I'm looking at either of these bikes for next seasons racing/dh ride and was wondering if anybody has experience on both, or at least the SOCOM. I'm looking at lightly used frames for racing and "free-dhing", in that I won't be hucking, but I won't be racing either. I guess that's what freeriding is...but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

So I like the SOCOM's higher BB and Intense's still being in existence, but the Sunday has the geometry I'm looking for and the reputation of being one of the best bikes out there....SOCOM is verging on "hyper-light" and I am on the heavier side (i think) at 200lbs. Sunday is no longer supported by IH, but bearings and replacement parts should still be reasonably easy to get in the aftermarket and from other frames. I'm also scared of the low BB, as I clip my pedals enough with a 14.1" and 175mm cranks.

Any comments? I don't hear the SOCOM discussed very much here...so I'm unfamiliar with it.

According to RS Cycles, they will be handling warranties of bikes bought through RS Cycles (IH) and possibly even if it wasn't. I know you said used, but where did the previous owner get it from? If he got it from RS Cycles/has a receipt, you might be able to get warranty parts (for a period). I'm dubious about whether thats true or whether they're just saying that, but I guess it might be something to consider.

 

[boogenman]

Socom with the new dropouts

 

[djamgils]

Even then the geometry isnt a proper dh geometry.

I have ridden a socom for over a year. It is light and pedals very well but this also counts for the sunday.
The socom has a steep head angle, 66.5 degree. With the custom dropouts it is about 65.5 degree.
I am not really impressed by the vpp on the socom. The leverage curve is very strange, it resembles an air shock. So wallowy in mid stroke and progressive. And you can get a subscription on bearings for the socom if you keep using the enduro bearings.

I wouldnt buy a sunday at the moment, it would be nice to be able to buy spare parts.

 

[epic]

I rode the Sunday and hated. Rode the SOCOM and had to have one. OK I ended up with an M6 but I loved the suspension of the SOCOM.

 

[?????]

FWIW, My Socom has a headangle of 64 degrees with the slacker drop outs and fox 40 topped out.

 

[djamgils]

FWIW, My Socom has a headangle of 64 degrees with the slacker drop outs and fox 40 topped out.

and what is you bb height with that?

 

[Rick205]

I personally ride a socom and find it a little too steep, tt length and bb height i find spot on for my size - bearing wise i wont use enduro when they need replacing i will likely use skf as we have dealt with them for bb bearings in the past and they proved to be very impresssive. I am light so i doubt i will test the frames strength especially on the tracks i ride.

- never ridden a sunday but due to the companys financial troubles i wouldnt consider purchasing a new one.

Just a heads up, drawings went into the machine-shop today for some 2degree offset cups for socom and 1 degree offset cups for the sunday, pricing should be available soon.....

 

[boogenman]

The Sunday is going to be to 'race bike' coming from your brooklyn.

Ever consider a M3 or V10?

 

[Sandwich]

I would consider and m3 or v10, but I really don't want a bike with that much travel. I've ridden a few V10s in the past and have no liked the feel of the bike. They probably weren't set up for me, and I could probably improve the feel with a little tuning, but for what I'd like in my next bike, they aren't really it. I'm not a huge fan of the vpp feel, and with 10" it'll only be more exaggerated. The SOCOM may fall more within the realm of a VP free in terms of pedaling feel, if I'm thinking straight.

Not sure what you mean by "the Sunday is going to be "race bike"..." If you're talking weight, of course! My BMW is a tank and just about any bike will be lighter by a significant amount...that's one reason I'm not concerned with weight as much as strength and durability.

 

[dante]

maybe switch to shorter cranks? or don't pedal through rock gardens? 175 is definitely longer than the average for a DH bike...

 

[iRider]

Why does everybody want the same geometry on every brand DH bike?
I really like the steeper angles on the Socom for most courses I race on. That said, I ordered the slackers so I can switch them out when I need a lower/slacker bike. But variety is good IMO, just demo and see if you like it or not.
With 200#s I personally wouldn't go for the Socom though. The frame is not the stiffest and even with thru axle heavier/harder riders might not like the frame's flex. I would say it is again personal preference. Try before you buy.

 

[boogenman]

race bike I mean low and slack.

Personally I would love to own a Socom over my M6 for most of the riding the at plattekill.

Shorter cranks on the Sunday or M6 will not stop you from bashing rocks with your pedals, bash guard and BB when riding at plattekill. The rocks pop up way to much there.

 

[jonKranked]

race bike I mean low and slack.

Personally I would love to own a Socom over my M6 for most of the riding the at plattekill.

Shorter cranks on the Sunday or M6 will not stop you from bashing rocks with your pedals, bash guard and BB when riding at plattekill. The rocks pop up way to much there.

you could have a 24" bb height and still hit rocks at Platty.

 

[Kntr]

I like the steeper angles on my Socom and I run a 66. I use it for everything and it handles the steep stuff. It is a little flexy, but I have never seen a broken frame. Mine has 500 DH miles on it. I had to replace the bearings but they are cheap. Ive ridden the Sunday a few times and Id rather have a Socom for the riding I do. The Sunday feels too low and the Socom jumps better IMO. The Socom handles big hits great. It ramps up real nice when I use it for FR. You can run a front derailer on a Socom too. Mine is currently built up at 36-37 lbs for AM riding. I throw the heavy wheels and tires on for resort riding and the bike weighs about 39-40.

 

[?????]

and what is you bb height with that?

14.25"ish

 

[Sghost]

In Soviet Platty, the rocks bash you.

 

[Sandwich]

maybe switch to shorter cranks? or don't pedal through rock gardens? 175 is definitely longer than the average for a DH bike...

this is true, but those are the stocks cranks on my brooklyn, and with 26s the BB was at like 15.25 or higher. At that height, 90% of the time you're fine with as long of cranks as you want to run. With the smaller wheels, I would clip enough to be annoying. I'd like to avoid that feeling if possible with a new bike. I don't think 0.5" will make a huge difference to me in BB height, but 10mm of crank length might at my height.

Why does everybody want the same geometry on every brand DH bike?
I really like the steeper angles on the Socom for most courses I race on. That said, I ordered the slackers so I can switch them out when I need a lower/slacker bike. But variety is good IMO, just demo and see if you like it or not.
With 200#s I personally wouldn't go for the Socom though. The frame is not the stiffest and even with thru axle heavier/harder riders might not like the frame's flex. I would say it is again personal preference. Try before you buy.

Do you find quite a bit of noticable flex in corners? One thing I'm excited about is the ability to sprint the bike out of the 9000 corners at highland...the racelink never excelled in that arena, mostly due to it's heft and plush suspension.
As far as the geometry, I've been riding a bike with 2001 era geometry. It's great for the uber-gnar of plattekill, but on the comparitively flat courses of diablo and highland, it's overkill. I'd like something that's got a slacker HT and a reasonably low BB, and most importantly a healthy top tube. Both these bikes have all three, although the sunday is a bit lower and slacker.

I'd rather not get into a "theology of bike geometry and demand based on internet whiners and fanboys" and stay focussed on real world, "this bike will suit you better because" or "i hated this part of this bike that I rode" and all that.

Thanks for the insights and suggestions so far...

 

[wiscodh]

Owned a socom and a still own my sunday.

The socom was a fun bike but never felt dialed. I really didn’t like the bike in the air at all. It was squirrely, felt front heavy. The rear end flex was VERY noticeable cornering. Build was pretty light at 38ish lbs. BoxxerWC, ti spring dhx5, mostly light parts, heavy wheels. I am about 175lbs with gear. VPP was fine.

The Sunday feels stiff and is really comfortable in the air. Stiff thru corners. I like the performance of the dw link more than the vpp. Maybe I could just dial in the dw better and its more of a set and forget. Build was ok at 40lb's. Fox40, tisprung dhx5, mostly light parts, 832's tubless. The things that I wish were better….The bearings/hardware get there ass kicked from crud, rear axel, and the paint is ****.

 

[Udi]

The sunday has a very stiff rearend as mentioned above and accelerates better than any other DH bike I've ridden so far. If you're going to be doing much pedalling, I think it's well worth it. It's also proven to be quite durable, mine is still good after almost two years of constant riding in dust/mud/rain.

In terms of BB height though, it's a scraper, probably a big part of what makes the bike what it is. My only thought on this matter is that you'll get used to working around it, I came off bikes as high as yours and now am perfectly comfortable with it. 165mm cranks will help, however mostly it's just a technique thing. However do be aware of it... with a boxxer it will be 13.5-13.6", so it is low and there's really no changing that.

With a light buildkit I'd highly recommend it, just make sure you get an 07+ model. You can build them very light and "fun" if you put some thought into it. Mine's 36.8# with a full DH buildkit, without that constraint 34-35# should be easy provided you have money to burn.

 

[iRider]

Do you find quite a bit of noticable flex in corners? One thing I'm excited about is the ability to sprint the bike out of the 9000 corners at highland...the racelink never excelled in that arena, mostly due to it's heft and plush suspension.
As far as the geometry, I've been riding a bike with 2001 era geometry. It's great for the uber-gnar of plattekill, but on the comparitively flat courses of diablo and highland, it's overkill. I'd like something that's got a slacker HT and a reasonably low BB, and most importantly a healthy top tube. Both these bikes have all three, although the sunday is a bit lower and slacker.

I'd rather not get into a "theology of bike geometry and demand based on internet whiners and fanboys" and stay focussed on real world, "this bike will suit you better because" or "i hated this part of this bike that I rode" and all that.

Thanks for the insights and suggestions so far...

I feel the flex a little bit if I am running a 135 mm QR wheel, none if used a thru axle wheel. But I am really light. I know other riders in the 180+ # range that aren't so happy with theirs because of the flex. I guess this is personal preference.

I test rode several Sundays that I borrowed from friends before deciding on the Socom. And I have one of the early 06/07s with the 1° steeper HA. I love this bike for 90% of DH riding and racing. For the remaining 10% I am waiting for my slacker dropouts.
The reason I decided to get the Socom was its ability to pedal out of corners earlier than the Sunday because of it's higher and 73 mm BB. You can be earlier on the gas and most courses I race on are not super gnar but pedally.

As far as geometry goes: I can tell for myself what feels good for my style of riding and makes me faster. No need to copy WC racers or take every word that Dirt writes as non-questionable must-do.