[kidwoo]

AKA the California GOP Headquarters?

No that's stall #3 at the sac airport.

 

[dante]

Speaking of Trader Joe's, they closed the one that was right near me...so now its way out of the way to get to one. This one was great, I could ride to work, then stop there on the way home and do my grocery shopping. It was a lot healthier. They replaced it with a Peter Piper Pizza...

Who is "they"?

 

[kidwoo]

Who is "they"?

The global elite.


Keepin you down.

 

[dante]

The global elite.


Keepin you down.

And making you fat.

 

[Silver]

And making you fat.

It's easier to keep you down that way.

 

[KavuRider]

Who is "they"?

The man! j/k

Replace "they" with "it was". That Peter Piper gets a lot more business than TJ's did in that spot, so I can't blame TJ's for shutting that store down. Just sucks for me.

 

[amishmatt]

This is the first time in the recorded history of man that is cheaper to eat poorly than it is to eat healthy.

That's bullsh*t. It's easier to eat poorly, but certainly doesn't have to be more expensive to eat healthy.

Anyone who's willing to prioritize eating healthy and actually put in a little time to shop smart and actually cook food from raw ingredients can do it without spending any more than they spend to eat crap.

And I'm not talking about organics and "heath food" BS, I'm talking about non-processed food.

But on the original topic of soda taxes, sure tax the **** out of it. Tax soda, tax candy bars tax potato chips, tax it all.

 

[pnj]

That's bullsh*t. It's easier to eat poorly, but certainly doesn't have to be more expensive to eat healthy.

Anyone who's willing to prioritize eating healthy and actually put in a little time to shop smart and actually cook food from raw ingredients can do it without spending any more than they spend to eat crap.

And I'm not talking about organics and "heath food" BS, I'm talking about non-processed food.

do you have a list of foods/menu?

veggies/fruit is expensive. ramen noodles are not.... boxed mac and cheese is not.

 

[jonKranked]

That's bullsh*t. It's easier to eat poorly, but certainly doesn't have to be more expensive to eat healthy.

Anyone who's willing to prioritize eating healthy and actually put in a little time to shop smart and actually cook food from raw ingredients can do it without spending any more than they spend to eat crap.

And I'm not talking about organics and "heath food" BS, I'm talking about non-processed food.

But on the original topic of soda taxes, sure tax the **** out of it. Tax soda, tax candy bars tax potato chips, tax it all.

You are correct, I misspoke on my original statement.

This is the first time in history that the poor and lower classes are substantially more obese than the wealthy and upper classes.

 

[sanjuro]

do you have a list of foods/menu?

veggies/fruit is expensive. ramen noodles are not.... boxed mac and cheese is not.

Yes, if you want to eat subsistence meals, then ramen and $1 package of mystery meat hotdogs.

 

[amishmatt]

do you have a list of foods/menu?

veggies/fruit is expensive. ramen noodles are not.... boxed mac and cheese is not.

No, because that changes depending on what's on sale. If I find a good deal, I stock up.

My wife and I put time into food shopping. We frequent local discount grocers and farmers markets in addition to regular supermarkets. When we find bags of whole wheat pasta for $.25, we buy a sh*tload. Bags of frozen blueberries on sale, stock up. Canned tomatoes on sale, load up the cart. When apples are in season, we eat a lot more of them. When they're not in season and cost too much, we skip them. Sure, you can't make a salad out of frozen vegetables, but you can use frozen, much cheaper than fresh, veggies for just about everything else.

You have to be flexible and willing to work for it.

 

[amishmatt]

You are correct, I misspoke on my original statement.

This is the first time in history that the poor and lower classes are substantially more obese than the wealthy and upper classes.

Agreed. But they aren't free of the blame for that.

 

[pnj]

When we find bags of whole wheat pasta for $.25,

where?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just know my local stores well. and I don't eat crap/boxed food. maybe it's just the city I live in, but good food is expensive here.

 

[amishmatt]

A deal like that is from a discount grocer. That particular find was a a store we pass on our way home from visiting family in Williamsport, PA.

It doesn't hurt my cause that I have a wife who bargain shops like it's a professional sport.

*edit: Actually, we did find bags of whole wheat penne at Trader Joe's last year that were on sale for 2/$1.00. We must have bought 10-12 bags.

 

[BurlyShirley]

So, my doctor currently has me off of all processed foods (or as close as Im going to get) and I've got to say, my share of the grocery bill has probably tripled.
Im eating a lot of fruit, potatos, frozen veggies with rice, but also buying chicken (usually cheap parts like thighs) and ground beef, and also some Tuna or Salmon since I haven't caught fish on my own lately. I am about tired of stir/fry and rice with chicken as well as all these stews Ive been making the crock pot... so, I guess Im going to have to get even more exotic. I bought four sirloins the other day (nice ones) for $14, and froze a couple of them. Wish I could just make burgers, but can't eat bread. Gluten free bread tastes like ass BTW and is expensive and molds in 2 days.
Anyway, sorry for that rant, but yeah you can go all OCD in your food shopping if you have the time and patience for that kind of thing and probably break even with just buying cheap meals at the store, but no it isn't easy.
As for taxing soda?
I dont know... these "sin" type taxes always reek of self-righteousness, but I might make an exception here. Id like to add that I think all kinds of products should have special taxes. For instance, If you buy a mtn. bike a small tax should be added to pay for US forest service budget, other conservation/outdoor related programs. It's already that way if you buy a gun or ammo. Taxes go to state wildlife agencies.

 

[Westy]

I dont know... these "sin" type taxes always reek of self-righteousness, but I might make an exception here. Id like to add that I think all kinds of products should have special taxes. For instance, If you buy a mtn. bike a small tax should be added to pay for US forest service budget, other conservation/outdoor related programs. It's already that way if you buy a gun or ammo. Taxes go to state wildlife agencies.

Sin taxes make no sense for just the 'sin' aspect, but when something is truly placing a burden on society not taxing it really is just a deferred tax. We will pay for it in the long run but in other ways. Tax the people who are creating the burden and possibly reduce the burden at the same time.

Starting this year in Virginia you need to purchase a $15 annual permit to bike in state parks. I don't have much of a problem with it other than the fact that local cycling advocate groups do most of the trail maintenance. I'd be totally fine with it if those who did trail work received a free permit. That is how our county parks work, they love the local cyclists as we pretty much do 100% of all the trail work that a much larger population enjoys.

Paying to ride in national forests would make sense if it didn't cost the forest service money to let logging companies take lumber. Doesn't make sense to tax individual non-destructive users while the same organizations essentially subsidizes industry.

 

[Silver]

http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm07autumn/health_pork.html

 

[BurlyShirley]

Sin taxes make no sense for just the 'sin' aspect, but when something is truly placing a burden on society not taxing it really is just a deferred tax. We will pay for it in the long run but in other ways. Tax the people who are creating the burden and possibly reduce the burden at the same time.

I agree, but in this case the "sin" aspect is there just the same (if Im not mistaken because I didnt see an article posted) "soda" is arbitrarily picked out as a bad guy that needs to be taxed. It's got a stigma not all that different from alcohol when you think about it. Why no cheeseburger or lard tax?

Paying to ride in national forests would make sense if it didn't cost the forest service money to let logging companies take lumber. Doesn't make sense to tax individual non-destructive users while the same organizations essentially subsidizes industry.

The forest service has plenty of problems, but does not exist solely for the lumber industry. That's it's primary function (and after all, the US does need lumber). But, just like with any federal entity they are underfunded, and the funds they do get are earmarked and partitioned out, with recreational users seeing not all that much of it. If you could tax people specifically for moneys used in that capacity, or as I said in conservation, it would be a good idea.

 

[kidwoo]

The forest service has plenty of problems, but does not exist solely for the lumber industry. That's it's primary function (and after all, the US does need lumber). But, just like with any federal entity they are underfunded,

Thank god. Every time those fvckers find a quarter in a couch cushion we lose trails or get them altered to the point of stupidity.

 

[Westy]

I agree, but in this case the "sin" aspect is there just the same (if Im not mistaken because I didnt see an article posted) "soda" is arbitrarily picked out as a bad guy that needs to be taxed. It's got a stigma not all that different from alcohol when you think about it. Why no cheeseburger or lard tax?




The forest service has plenty of problems, but does not exist solely for the lumber industry. That's it's primary function (and after all, the US does need lumber). But, just like with any federal entity they are underfunded, and the funds they do get are earmarked and partitioned out, with recreational users seeing not all that much of it. If you could tax people specifically for moneys used in that capacity, or as I said in conservation, it would be a good idea.

Yeah singling out soda is stupid. It is easy even for a below average person to choose a lower calorie alternative like diet soda. The larger problem is things like corn syrup getting put into things you wouldn't realize. A lot process foods taste like pancake syrup to me, specifically jarred tomato sauce and bread. It is no surprise to me that they have corn syrup added, most people don't realize. That is really why the tax should be levied on the production of the product not the application or like I said before just kill the subsidies that make it cheaper to produce the crap in the first place.

My point with the forest service is that the average person is already paying and unfair tax burden in relation to the national forests as the forest service sells lumber at a loss. Stop subsidising one user before imparting taxes on another.

 

[SkaredShtles]

do you have a list of foods/menu?

veggies/fruit is expensive.

No they're not. I'm going to guess on average fruits/veg are less than $2/lb IF you shop what's on sale.

ramen noodles are not.... boxed mac and cheese is not.

Rice is cheap. Decent pasta is cheap. Get some cheap rice, some cheap veg, a little cheap meat and you can put together a tasty, cheap, healthy stir-fry.

 

[stoney]

We've been buying whole chicken's and either grilling them or boiling them to put the meat into freezer until needed. Our meat cost has dropped by almost 50% by buying larger scale, less processed.
We also buy foods on sale and in season and have been trying to get a canning process setup for our fruits and foods like chili and soups.

 

[syadasti]

And making you fat.

Corn subsidies FTL

A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain
Posted March 22, 2010; 10:00 a.m.
by Hilary Parker

A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

In addition to causing significant weight gain in lab animals, long-term consumption of high-fructose corn syrup also led to abnormal increases in body fat, especially in the abdomen, and a rise in circulating blood fats called triglycerides. The researchers say the work sheds light on the factors contributing to obesity trends in the United States.

"Some people have claimed that high-fructose corn syrup is no different than other sweeteners when it comes to weight gain and obesity, but our results make it clear that this just isn't true, at least under the conditions of our tests," said psychology professor Bart Hoebel, who specializes in the neuroscience of appetite, weight and sugar addiction. "When rats are drinking high-fructose corn syrup at levels well below those in soda pop, they're becoming obese -- every single one, across the board. Even when rats are fed a high-fat diet, you don't see this; they don't all gain extra weight."

In results published online March 18 by the journal Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, the researchers from the Department of Psychology and the Princeton Neuroscience Institute reported on two experiments investigating the link between the consumption of high-fructose corn syrup and obesity.

The first study showed that male rats given water sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup in addition to a standard diet of rat chow gained much more weight than male rats that received water sweetened with table sugar, or sucrose, in conjunction with the standard diet. The concentration of sugar in the sucrose solution was the same as is found in some commercial soft drinks, while the high-fructose corn syrup solution was half as concentrated as most sodas.

The second experiment -- the first long-term study of the effects of high-fructose corn syrup consumption on obesity in lab animals -- monitored weight gain, body fat and triglyceride levels in rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup over a period of six months. Compared to animals eating only rat chow, rats on a diet rich in high-fructose corn syrup showed characteristic signs of a dangerous condition known in humans as the metabolic syndrome, including abnormal weight gain, significant increases in circulating triglycerides and augmented fat deposition, especially visceral fat around the belly. Male rats in particular ballooned in size: Animals with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained 48 percent more weight than those eating a normal diet. In humans, this would be equivalent to a 200-pound man gaining 96 pounds.

"These rats aren't just getting fat; they're demonstrating characteristics of obesity, including substantial increases in abdominal fat and circulating triglycerides," said Princeton graduate student Miriam Bocarsly. "In humans, these same characteristics are known risk factors for high blood pressure, coronary artery disease, cancer and diabetes." In addition to Hoebel and Bocarsly, the research team included Princeton undergraduate Elyse Powell and visiting research associate Nicole Avena, who was affiliated with Rockefeller University during the study and is now on the faculty at the University of Florida. The Princeton researchers note that they do not know yet why high-fructose corn syrup fed to rats in their study generated more triglycerides, and more body fat that resulted in obesity.

High-fructose corn syrup and sucrose are both compounds that contain the simple sugars fructose and glucose, but there at least two clear differences between them. First, sucrose is composed of equal amounts of the two simple sugars -- it is 50 percent fructose and 50 percent glucose -- but the typical high-fructose corn syrup used in this study features a slightly imbalanced ratio, containing 55 percent fructose and 42 percent glucose. Larger sugar molecules called higher saccharides make up the remaining 3 percent of the sweetener. Second, as a result of the manufacturing process for high-fructose corn syrup, the fructose molecules in the sweetener are free and unbound, ready for absorption and utilization. In contrast, every fructose molecule in sucrose that comes from cane sugar or beet sugar is bound to a corresponding glucose molecule and must go through an extra metabolic step before it can be utilized.

This creates a fascinating puzzle. The rats in the Princeton study became obese by drinking high-fructose corn syrup, but not by drinking sucrose. The critical differences in appetite, metabolism and gene expression that underlie this phenomenon are yet to be discovered, but may relate to the fact that excess fructose is being metabolized to produce fat, while glucose is largely being processed for energy or stored as a carbohydrate, called glycogen, in the liver and muscles.

In the 40 years since the introduction of high-fructose corn syrup as a cost-effective sweetener in the American diet, rates of obesity in the U.S. have skyrocketed, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 1970, around 15 percent of the U.S. population met the definition for obesity; today, roughly one-third of the American adults are considered obese, the CDC reported. High-fructose corn syrup is found in a wide range of foods and beverages, including fruit juice, soda, cereal, bread, yogurt, ketchup and mayonnaise. On average, Americans consume 60 pounds of the sweetener per person every year.

"Our findings lend support to the theory that the excessive consumption of high-fructose corn syrup found in many beverages may be an important factor in the obesity epidemic," Avena said.

The new research complements previous work led by Hoebel and Avena demonstrating that sucrose can be addictive, having effects on the brain similar to some drugs of abuse.

In the future, the team intends to explore how the animals respond to the consumption of high-fructose corn syrup in conjunction with a high-fat diet -- the equivalent of a typical fast-food meal containing a hamburger, fries and soda -- and whether excessive high-fructose corn syrup consumption contributes to the diseases associated with obesity. Another step will be to study how fructose affects brain function in the control of appetite.

The research was supported by the U.S. Public Health Service.

 

[jonKranked]

wow, whoda thunk

 

[Westy]

Let's not forget the soy subsidy. 80% of the fat calories consumed in the US come from soy based vegetable oil. 70% of soy crop is basically paid for by subsidies. In other words more than half of the fat calories we eat are paid for by taxes. Forget bread lines, the government is basically just pouring grease down our throats.

 

[jonKranked]

also, link?

 

[syadasti]

This is a good piece on corn/soy and other multinational criminal agribusinesses practices if you haven't seen it before:

Hulu - The Future Of Food - Watch the full feature film now.@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.hulu.com/embed/cMzvfJo5t_uBnghXU4JgkQ@@AMEPARAM@@cMzvfJo5t_uBnghXU4JgkQ

 

[jimmydean]

Mmmm, HFC...

 

[Westy]

Mmmm, HFC...

Hawaiian fried chicken.

 

[worship_mud]

jamie oliver breaks into tears while trying to raise awareness in huntington, WV "the unhealthiest town" in the US, where they serve pizza for breakfast in schools. how can people allow a school to feed their children pizza for breakfast???? i'd completely freak out, if the local authorities would do so in my daughter's kindergarden.