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Soldier Sues U.S. Military Over Extended Service

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Interesting case... I don't think he has a chance but it'll be an fun to see how it plays out though...


Soldier Sues U.S. Military Over Extended Service
Reuters | Aug 17 | Adam Tanner

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A decorated U.S. combat veteran filed a lawsuit on Tuesday asserting that the government can not prevent reservists from leaving the military when their enlistment periods end.

The suit against Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other military officials, names the plaintiff only as John Doe. It says he served in the Marine Corps and Army for nine years on active duty and three years as a reservist.

"This lawsuit seeks to stop the forced retention of men and women who have fulfilled their service obligations," said attorney Michael Sorgen. "When their period of enlistment ends, they should be entitled to return to their families."

He called the suit the first of its kind.

The Army has issued "stop-loss" orders preventing tens of thousands of soldiers designated to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the military if their volunteer service commitment ends during their deployment.

The Pentagon has relied heavily on reservists to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"The order violates Doe's right to due process and the terms of his enlistment contract, and is contrary to law," the lawsuit reads. "The involuntary extension of Doe's military enlistment constitutes a serious infringement on his liberty protected by the Constitution."

The San Francisco-area man, who filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court for Northern California, fought during the invasion of Iraq. Married with two young daughters, he is seeking a release from service when his Army National Guard term ends in December.

The suit names the plaintiff's commander as Capt. Kincy Clark, who heads Bravo Company of the First Battalion, 184th Infantry regiment based in Dublin, California. The unit reported for duty on Monday and is expected to train for several months before going to Iraq in February or March.

"We have some soldiers who are obviously not overjoyed about being deployed," Clark told Reuters by telephone. "I have had to look them in the eye and say 'hey, you are going."'

He added that reservists know when signing up that "stop loss" or extension of service is a possibility.

A spokesman for the California National Guard declined to comment.

The extension of service for U.S. soldiers has also become an issue in the presidential campaign.

"We will end the backdoor draft of the National Guard and reservists," John Kerry said in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention in July.

The "stop loss" order means soldiers who otherwise could leave when their commitments expire will be compelled to remain until the end of a year-long overseas deployment and up to another 90 days after returning to their home base. Some may therefore be forced to remain in the military for months after they were scheduled to leave.
 

fuzzynutz

Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
629
0
Chicagoland
It's always good to see people standing up the the Government, when the Gov't oversteps the laws. It will be interesting to see this play out.
 

fuzzynutz

Monkey
Jul 11, 2004
629
0
Chicagoland
If he has good lawyers, hell even descent lawyers he'll have a good case. I didn't notice your comment before the clip and almost posted the exact same response.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
What case does he have? The acknowledgement of the possibility of involuntary extension is written into the enlistment paperwork.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
MikeD said:
What case does he have? The acknowledgement of the possibility of involuntary extension is written into the enlistment paperwork.
Even for the guard/reservist?

I doubt he will win, but I think there is a point where the Military has gone a bit too far. It's one thing to make the reservist/guard serve active duty (with substandard supplies according to some reports), but to then keep them longer than they had signed up for... that's kicking a man while he's down!

I wonder how they military expects to bolster their numbers in the future? Because with what is going on now, who's going to sign up for the guard/reserves...
 

BikeGeek

BrewMonkey
Jul 2, 2001
4,577
277
Hershey, PA
Slugman said:
Even for the guard/reservist?

I doubt he will win, but I think there is a point where the Military has gone a bit too far. It's one thing to make the reservist/guard serve active duty (with substandard supplies according to some reports), but to then keep them longer than they had signed up for... that's kicking a man while he's down!

I wonder how they military expects to bolster their numbers in the future? Because with what is going on now, who's going to sign up for the guard/reserves...
Anyone that signs up for the guards/reserves knows they have the chance of being activated. Once activated you are no different than any other unit in the Army, except for the amount of respect you get. Like MikeD said, the enlistment contract has a section that the enlistee initails acknowledging the possibility of involuntary extension.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Why the hell would you ever sign an enlistment contract? Sure, it's not likely they could keep you for the rest of your life, but why would you ever give the government that option?
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
Because you didn't read the fine print, you were too busy thinking about their "one weekend a month..." (or whatever it is) line.

I think that is what bugs me the most... these people offered their services expecting to put their background to use, yet still live a 'normal' life. Then they are told that instead of helping out their neighbors they will be shipped to a hostile foriegn country for full combat duty.

Then after doing all this they are then told they can't opt out when their time is out... WTF! Yeah I'm sure it is in the contract that they signed... but that does not make it right. I guess the line of "A lack of planing on your part does not constitue an emegency on my part" doesn't run true for the military.

Besides, I'm sure they were told that it was extrememly unlikely that either of those things would happen... but in the end :nuts:
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
Military members are public servants in the truest, most essential meaning of the word. How many of you said, 'I want to be a servant when I grow up!' Likely, not very many.

However, some of us do feel that there's a greater good to be served, out of necessity, and are willing to put up with the b*llsh1t it may entail for it. Why would we give the government this much control over us? Because for every 10,000 people who take it for granted that they have roads, schools, and someone to help them when bad things happen, there are some of us who realize that there's a sacrifice that someone has to make to ensure these things. Regardless of what you might think about how that idealism filters out to reality, it's still essential that any society has armed men standing ready to protect it.

You'd hope that a society wouldn't scew those armed men over, but it happens... and though this guy probably won't win his case (and damned well shouldn't), it might help highlight to the (easily swayed, over-emotional, under-intelligent, and short-attention spanned) public the problems we're facing as a military and a society.

MD
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
Slugman said:
I think that is what bugs me the most... these people offered their services expecting to put their background to use, yet still live a 'normal' life. Then they are told that instead of helping out their neighbors they will be shipped to a hostile foriegn country for full combat duty.
Anyone who joins the military without a willingness to engage in armed combat far from home is a fvcking moron. Every single fvcking one of them.

MD
 
The fact that this idiot is a commisioned officer makes this whole thing even more ludicious than it already is. He knew what he was getting into. Even more so, he's a Captain. He KNEW that the army can extend him to meet commitments. The fact he's staying means one thing. He's serving in a critical skill job and cant get replaced. He chose his job, and could have changed it while he was doing the ROTC thing. Like it says all through out the thread, it's in the BOLD print in the contract. Even retirement paperwork says the government can recall you to active duty. And guess what? Due to the incompetance of Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest of the department of defense they have to recall them. About 3K got pulled out of retirement to come back and fight or train the men going over. That schmuck of a Captain raised his hand and he knew what he was doing. He doesnt like what's happening? Too Fvcking bad arsehole!!! You raised your hand and swore an oath to defend this country from all enemies, FOREIGN and domestic. So now, its time to put up, and to shut up.
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,123
0
Pasadena, CA
Ummm....I'd read that section again...it simply says that the plaintiff's CO is the Capt...not that the capt. is the man who is sueing.


D'OH!
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
MikeD said:
Anyone who joins the military without a willingness to engage in armed combat far from home is a fvcking moron. Every single fvcking one of them.

MD
I would kinda like the recruitment commercials to reflect that a little bit more, myself.

You mean the army isn't like playing a video game? ;)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Silver said:
I would kinda like the recruitment commercials to reflect that a little bit more, myself.

You mean the army isn't like playing a video game? ;)
You assume that would help the "fvcking moron"s make a better decision.

Stupid is as stupid does.....:)
 

BikeGeek

BrewMonkey
Jul 2, 2001
4,577
277
Hershey, PA
Slugman said:
I think that is what bugs me the most... these people offered their services expecting to put their background to use, yet still live a 'normal' life. Then they are told that instead of helping out their neighbors they will be shipped to a hostile foriegn country for full combat duty.
Again, if they went into it without realizing that it could happen they're either idiots are the victim of some very clever marketing.

What bugged me the most is that most of the Guard/Reservists I knew weren't "offering their services," they were looking for an easy bit of extra cash and a cool camo uniform to wear hunting. These people signed up to "serve" and then bitched non-stop about every fvcking thing they had to do during their weekend of duty. It's no wonder the Guard/Reserves receive such little respect.