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Solitary Confinement

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
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Orange County, CA
I was laid up with the flu before Christmas, and managed to burn through a bunch of stuff on Netflix. I queued this up, due to the recent stuff about Manning (note, this is not a Manning thread, we have one for that already) and found parts of it pretty horrific:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explorer/4819/Overview

There's a part that especially caught my notice. They are interviewing the warden, who is a late 50ish frumpy women (this isn't sexist, it's important to a point I'm going to make) and they are talking about the "quality of life index" that the inmates have at the facility. It's 1-6, with a 6 being the most privileges, and a 1 being the least. When the break the rules, they go down on the scale. Then, she says the following (paraphrased, not verbatim):

"Could you or I, placed in this facility, follow all the rules? Probably not, but when we find infractions, we punish them."

That's the person in charge, admitting that the game is rigged, not only for the ~20-30% of the inmates with diagnosed mental illness, but for the rest as well, who by their very presence have trouble with rules to one extent or the other. BUT-she admits it would also be rigged for a "normal" law-abiding person in the same environment.

That women doesn't look evil. It's not tattooed on her forehead. She's not wearing a black leather overcoat with a swastika band on her arm. She is, however, a perfect example of the banality of evil.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Ironically, Rosenbaum's critique is full of pseudo-intellectual nonsense itself. Let's focus on the first part of the link, shall we?

the thesis that the great evils in history generally, and the Holocaust in particular, were not executed by fanatics or sociopaths, but rather by ordinary people who accepted the premises of their state and therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Easy killer, just giving you sh*t. :D
I know :D

I just don't want to derail the thread into a pissing contest between two Jews, one dead. Even if Arend's critique of Eichmann was 100% wrong, her description is useful here-even more so than in the case of a Nazi war criminal, I'd argue.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
A very close friend is a CO at a NYS Maximum Security prison.

He has told me, no differently then when I said I switched to decaf, that he has beaten prisoners.

Not for fun, not because he is lazy or cruel, but when prisoners who are serving long sentences, decide to behave out of control, how do you control them?

You may think my friend (and he is a close friend) is SS Guard material, but everyone I associate with is reasonable and decent. Who I am to say he should put his life at a guaranteed risk by not doing his job the way he sees fit.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
A very close friend is a CO at a NYS Maximum Security prison.

He has told me, no differently then when I said I switched to decaf, that he has beaten prisoners.

Not for fun, not because he is lazy or cruel, but when prisoners who are serving long sentences, decide to behave out of control, how do you control them?

You may think my friend (and he is a close friend) is SS Guard material, but everyone I associate with is reasonable and decent. Who I am to say he should put his life at a guaranteed risk by not doing his job the way he sees fit.
*jew humor*
 
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Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
A very close friend is a CO at a NYS Maximum Security prison.

He has told me, no differently then when I said I switched to decaf, that he has beaten prisoners.

Not for fun, not because he is lazy or cruel, but when prisoners who are serving long sentences, decide to behave out of control, how do you control them?

You may think my friend (and he is a close friend) is SS Guard material, but everyone I associate with is reasonable and decent. Who I am to say he should put his life at a guaranteed risk by not doing his job the way he sees fit.
Yeah, beat the **** out of them.

I'm sure your friend is a swell guy.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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SF
I'm sure when he is on duty tonight, guarding rapists and murders, he will be upset that a SoCal liberal disapproves of him.

What do you do again?
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
Just tell me again what you think is an effective measure to control violent prisoners serving long sentences?

Take away their library privileges? Group counseling? Maybe a "tough love" approach?

Or how about solitary confinement? It is a non-violent method which effectively controls unruly prisoners with minimal risk to guards and the prisoners.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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SF
I don't hang out with civil right abusers. You?

By the way, in 2004, more crossing guards died than correctional officers.

http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi2004_a-3.pdf
Of course you don't. That's why you can pontificate about this topic with full assurance that you are right.

I cannot. My friend is a good person doing bad things for a good reason.

I don't know what to think about that.

And you really got me on how much more dangerous it is being a crossing guard than a prison guard.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Of course you don't. That's why you can pontificate about this topic with full assurance that you are right.

I cannot. My friend is a good person doing bad things for a good reason.

I don't know what to think about that.

And you really got me on how much more dangerous it is being a crossing guard than a prison guard.
You're the one who came into an unrelated thread and vomited how you had a buddy who beats prisoners tough guy, not me.

Or were you so excited to share that you didn't notice I said NOTHING about the guards, and was criticizing the person in charge of the place?
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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You're the one who came into an unrelated thread and vomited how you had a buddy who beats prisoners tough guy, not me.

Or were you so excited to share that you didn't notice I said NOTHING about the guards, and was criticizing the person in charge of the place?
You brought up how Solitary Confinement is "evil".

I brought up the alternative, which is beatings to maintain control.

No prison guard will admit to this because it is a crime.

I think we as a society do not want to know what goes on in Maximum Security, because there is no alternative.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
"Could you or I, placed in this facility, follow all the rules? Probably not, but when we find infractions, we punish them."
if i didn't know any better, i'd tend to think there are 2 kinds of people relevant to this topic: the innocent & the guilty, one of whom has earned punishment
That's the person in charge, admitting that the game is rigged, not only for the ~20-30% of the inmates with diagnosed mental illness, but for the rest as well, who by their very presence have trouble with rules to one extent or the other. BUT-she admits it would also be rigged for a "normal" law-abiding person in the same environment.
one man's "game is rigged" is another "let the punishment fit the crime"

when you contemplate gen-pop or ad-seg, i guess it comes down to which kind of rape does the DoC enable: mental or physical? obviously, in only one of those can a prisoner be both the perpetrator and the victim. a consistent role may better serve toward predictable behavior modeling