Mexican ID Cards Approved In California
What the heck are we doing here?
This is so counterproductive it's hilarious.
What the heck are we doing here?
This is so counterproductive it's hilarious.
Speaking of Immigration.....This is CRAP!
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
Yeah, we all know how ramapant a problem Mexican terrorism is...
Nice to know xenophobia is alive and well in Cali.
Counter productive to what? I am in favor of the program - in Washington State certain areas in the natural resource harvesting field are desperate for low cost immigrant labor. The US economy benifits greatly from the labor of illegal aliens - so why not make it legal?
Um... He's from HawaiiOriginally posted by Tenchiro
Yeah, we all know how ramapant a problem Mexican terrorism is...
Nice to know xenophobia is alive and well in Cali. [/B]
Asfar as the bill goes, I think it is a great idea as long as there is a good verification process for getting a card. The only part that concerns me (because I don't have all the facts yet) is this part:
Legislators also are debating bills that would allow undocumented immigrants to obtain driver's licenses and qualify for basic college aid.
So does that mean that my tax dollars are going to help pay for non citizens to attend US colleges? That's kinda messed up considering there are plenty of US citizens for whom college is not financially feasable but are smart enough to attend.
Good god man!
Then legally import them...dont reward them for breaking the law. Its an open invitation now. "Hey c'mon over fellas" "Whats that?" "Taxes? Nah, dont worry about paying taxes, we'll take care of you. Heck, have some kids, we'll educate them too."
I wasnt talking about the terrorism part, although i could see how some south american anti-US causes could make us of this. My being in Hawaii is really irrelevant, being that ive only lived here two years.
Would you mind concentrating on the subject instad of me this time BB?
My point is what you pointed out, about tax money for education and numerous other things...Its insane.
Look BS, I know we butted heads a bit but um... I wasn't talking to you.
I was simply wondering why Tenchiro said Xenophobia was alive and well in Cali.
Is that OK?
I was not trying to imply anything beyond that.
Sorry BurlySurly - I grew up in California and Colorado. I just do not see illegals as a threat to the nations welfare or economy.
Yo say it is illegal and it is... I my opinion the current laws are in need of reform. Americans hire illegals all the time... trust me if there weren't jobs and opportunities they wouldn't be here.
It's popular to think that the hispanic population is a huge drain on the public health and welfare resources but... they are nothing compared to the average unmarried (for benefit reasons) white trash trailer park welfare families we grow right here...
Yo say it is illegal and it is... I my opinion the current laws are in need of reform. Americans hire illegals all the time... trust me if there weren't jobs and opportunities they wouldn't be here.
It's popular to think that the hispanic population is a huge drain on the public health and welfare resources but... they are nothing compared to the average unmarried (for benefit reasons) white trash trailer park welfare families we grow right here...
I think he was referring to some of the opposition quotes...
I remember not to long ago there was a new conference...there was a guy who was equating all illigal immigrants as terrorists...who the hell do you think pick your vegetables? Cook your food? Do all the crap jobs that you think are below you? All these middle and upper class californians are all pissed that illegals come and take jobs from Americans...fact of the matter is I've NEVER seen an American out there picking strawberrys for **** pay.
And SM is right....everyone seems to think that the black population is this huge drain on welfare. but the actual numbers point to those trailer trash he mentioned.
And SM is right....everyone seems to think that the black population is this huge drain on welfare. but the actual numbers point to those trailer trash he mentioned.
And thats who we need to focus our efforts on, not illegal aliens.
Oh...
Well I'm sure there are WAY more people in Cali that are FOR this than against.
My opinion is that it is better to know who is in the country than to not know.
I think we can do both... we're Americans!
Something we agree on.Originally posted by BurlySurly
What is he talking about.
Only Racist people think that.
Exactly. Our municiple court is flooded with Mexicans who were stopped and cited for driving without a license... not guns, not drugs. Our laws require these licenses but also prohibit undocumented immigrants from getting them in the first place. Catch 22 I think.
EDIT... My family are immigrants from Ireland and Sweden. They made their living as loggers in Michigan and Wisconsin before moving west. At the time loggers we the lowest of the low... my how things change.Originally posted by Serial Midget
I think we can do both... we're Americans!
In the 80s it was popular for right wingers to blame all manner of social ills on unwed wellfare mom's and absentee fathers. Rebublican speak for inner-city Afro-Americans. Although, at the time, they were still called blacks.
20 years later I am hearing the exact same arguements directed at Mexican Americans...
When we can describe a significant portion of the American population as "TRASH" I think that needs to be adressed before the needs of non-citizens. Sorry.
Giving illegals ID cards isnt going to help us in any way. Its going to give non-taxpayers the right to drive on the roads my taxes paid for. Its going to invite huge numbers of more illegals into the country. This will be a bigger drain on the economy.
When the non-taxpayers have kids, they'll get free public schooling. Oh, but wait, our schools dont get enough funding as it is.
This is garbage, and the ploy of some californian wishing to appeal to the wants of a certain large section of the voting populous. Its not a sound decision to better the country.
Well I don't want to get into a pissing match. I'll just say that I think these ID cards and immigration is good for America.
To suggest that these people are a drain on the economy is nothing more than a weak cover for an empty arguement.
The roads YOU paid for? Our roads and highways are paid for with the taxes that are collected at the pump. An illegal drives a car, cars use gas, gas cost money... looks like they have the same rights to road as you do. Oops... looks like they might be paying taxes... 
Schools are primarily funded through property taxes. EVERYONE in America who rents or owns a place to live pays these taxes... either in the form of property assessments or included in their monthy rent payments.
Employers are responsible for Fed and State tax withholdings... tax are deducted from the wages but does the employer report this to the IRS... maybe, maybe not. How many illegals file a tax return and get a refund? Darn few I expect.
To suggest that these people are a drain on the economy is nothing more than a weak cover for an empty arguement.
The roads YOU paid for?
Our roads and highways are paid for with the taxes that are collected at the pump. An illegal drives a car, cars use gas, gas cost money... looks like they have the same rights to road as you do. Oops... looks like they might be paying taxes... Schools are primarily funded through property taxes. EVERYONE in America who rents or owns a place to live pays these taxes... either in the form of property assessments or included in their monthy rent payments.
Employers are responsible for Fed and State tax withholdings... tax are deducted from the wages but does the employer report this to the IRS... maybe, maybe not.
How many illegals file a tax return and get a refund? Darn few I expect.
No pissing here.Originally posted by Serial Midget
Well I don't want to get into a pissing match. I'll just say that I think these ID cards and immigration is good for America.
To suggest that these people are a drain on the economy is nothing more than a weak cover for an empty arguement.
The roads YOU paid for?
Schools are primarily funded through property taxes. EVERYONE in America who rents or owns a place to live pays these taxes... either in the form of property assessments or included in their monthy rent payments.
Employers are responsible for Fed and State tax withholdings... tax are deducted from the wages but does the employer report this to the IRS... maybe, maybe not.
Id venture to guess that alot of these employers pay these workers in hard cash, and no tax whatsoever is witheld. Ive worked with alot of mexican illegals before who were in the housing construction business, when i did Cable TV construction.
Id also be willing to bet, that the overall property tax collected from illegal immigrants is not enough to support every child of an illegal immigrant in the education system. With ever increasing numbers, sure to be caused by these "hey come on over" signs were issuing. It is, and will become more of a problem.
Still, i cant see a reason to support illegal immigrants before our own. Its just bassackward.
As for the roads....umm....i'll think something up
Very few American households pay enough in property taxes to cover the cost of their children's education while they are in school. It is a community effort...
How about this: I have no children and I don't really see myself getting married and making a family anytime soon. My ex-wife and I had no children either. At the time of our divorce we owned 4 properties and paid taxes on all of them. One was commercial, two were single family rentals and one was primary. During our time of ownership we did not rent to families with children. We paid our taxes but did not put any drain on the education system.
Say I were to rent to young "American" family, just starting out with 2 school aged children... there is no way this family is even coming close to covering the cost's of their childrens education while they are attending school. But, over the course of a lifetime, this family will enjoy increasing prosperity, maybe buy a home and continue to pay property taxes until they die. Over the course of a lifetime it all events out.
Plus - I'll continue to pay my taxes and never send any kids to school.
In your old age they will be supporting you. Right now Americans aren't making enough new workers to support our Social Security Pyramid Scheme...
You should thank me and my overpopulation views... how many more serial midgets would you want running around? :evil:
That's already the case. A child born on US soil is a US citizen, regardless of how its mother got on US soil. Has nothing to do with these cards.
All this will do is help us to regulate mexican workers on US soil. This means might mean more mexicans but fewer illegals as they will come over through more legitimate channels, AND illegals aren't as much of a problem if we have a way of keeping track of them.
I am opposed to providing public education and healthcare to non-citizens, however.
If they were licensed and registered, it would curb under-the-tableism. It would make it much harder for tax-free wages to be paid.Originally posted by BurlySurly
No pissing here.
Id venture to guess that alot of these employers pay these workers in hard cash, and no tax whatsoever is witheld.
Because I like to take my vacations abroad - thats why.
Yes, i know thats the case, and its wrong. And it has everything to do with these cards. Providing them is providing an open door to illegals.
Why even have border patrol and the immigration dept if we're allowing people to come here. And rewarding them.
Im sorry, but i find the whole concept of "Registered illegal immigrants" perplexing.
Shouldnt they be "deported illegal immigrants?"
If they registered before they came, and got working Visas, perhaps my tune would be a bit different. Perhaps some reform is needed in that area. But this is the wrong way to fix the problem.
Seems like an entirely pragmatic and sensible solution to me. No wonder BS opposes it
. Wouldn't the Californian economy collapse if all the illegals went home? As far as I know any immigration ,illegal or not, is of net benefit to the host country. That may sound counter intuitive but makes sense really.
. Wouldn't the Californian economy collapse if all the illegals went home? As far as I know any immigration ,illegal or not, is of net benefit to the host country. That may sound counter intuitive but makes sense really.
\Originally posted by Serial Midget
Well I don't want to get into a pissing match. I'll just say that I think these ID cards and immigration is good for America.
To suggest that these people are a drain on the economy is nothing more than a weak cover for an empty arguement.
The roads YOU paid for?
Schools are primarily funded through property taxes. EVERYONE in America who rents or owns a place to live pays these taxes... either in the form of property assessments or included in their monthy rent payments.
Employers are responsible for Fed and State tax withholdings... tax are deducted from the wages but does the employer report this to the IRS... maybe, maybe not.
bravo bravo encore encore
I'm sorry, but you're going to need to spell this one out for me.
Whether or not they have a card, their child is a US citizen if it is born here. This will be the case whether or not the ID system is instituted. It may or may not be right, but that's a seperate argument.
The incentives for giving birth on US soil do not change if this ID system were instituted.
Conversely, it will make it easier for us to prevent an illegal from giving birth on US soil if we somehow have her registered and know who she is....
No, no, no.
I know what the policy about being born on us soil is, i just dont agree with it. I didnt mean to make it sound like that was something new because of the cards.
Where it has to do with the IDs, is that it invites more illegals, and hence...more US citizens because of birth on US soil.
Get what i meant?
Assuming that Ohio and Midget are correct (and im not saying they are) where do you draw the line on immigration?
Do just say "hey c'mon over, no one's illegal anymore, just fill out the proper paperwork and you're set" ?
What stipulations should there be on numbers?
I think that anyone would agree, there would be a massive influx of immigrants if we just declared the borders open. Should we do that? Certainly there would be reprocussions.
And we cant just keep them as illegals, and ignore the problem...can we?
Sorry..just trying to get a feel for where you guys are
Oh, and no one say anything like "There shouldnt be any laws, because people should be free, and there shouldnt even be any countries. And we should all smoke heroine and listen to Phish together," because i swear to christ i'll purchase a plane ticket, fly down there and :nuts: and walk away laughing
Do just say "hey c'mon over, no one's illegal anymore, just fill out the proper paperwork and you're set" ?
What stipulations should there be on numbers?
I think that anyone would agree, there would be a massive influx of immigrants if we just declared the borders open. Should we do that? Certainly there would be reprocussions.
And we cant just keep them as illegals, and ignore the problem...can we?
Sorry..just trying to get a feel for where you guys are
Oh, and no one say anything like "There shouldnt be any laws, because people should be free, and there shouldnt even be any countries. And we should all smoke heroine and listen to Phish together," because i swear to christ i'll purchase a plane ticket, fly down there and :nuts: and walk away laughing
I meant the quote in the article.Originally posted by -BB-
Um... He's from Hawaii
America is a country founded on immigrants, for better or worse. My family immigrated here (on the Mayflower, if you consider that immigration), and helped to settle a good portion of the northwest. We even have streets named for us.
When I here Americans badmouthing immigrants, who 99% of the time are just trying to make a better life for themselves or their families. It really makes me think that they are not only taking this country and our freedoms for granted they are also trampling on everything this country was founded on.
When I here Americans badmouthing immigrants, who 99% of the time are just trying to make a better life for themselves or their families. It really makes me think that they are not only taking this country and our freedoms for granted they are also trampling on everything this country was founded on.
We'll know it's time to stop when they stop risking life and limb to get in. Right now I am only prepared to draw the line at partsbara.
hehhehehe
i m already in midge, and i m comin to get YOUR job... :devil:
partsbara - on the run from war torn australia
can I get one as a canadian in Boulder? I will suggest that!
Just be sure your papers are in order - Australian Ex Pat profiling is going to be the next big thing...
My job??? Ahahahahaha hohohohohoho ahahahhahahah!!! My job went away with the internet bubble. I just thank god for IPOs and the Web Van options I sold before they went tits up.
Anyhow, if you want my former job you can find it in India.
Let me get this straight...you don't think that being born on US soil means you should be an American?