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Speaking of street cruisers...

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
Dude...I haven't so much as SAT on a 20" since 1988. Swear. And they were a LOT different then.
And I was just thinking about something... I can't imagine how I got anything doneback then. Do you know what the CS was on a Skyway Street Beat??? Check it(mines the pink one on the right!):
the cs's on an early/mid 90's hoffman condor were just as long. 26 foot airs, hell yeah. . . . something to be said for stability.
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
7.9" bars. Feels ok in the basement, will have to wait till tomorrow to ride it for real. Funky frame with almost 16" CS and 22" TT. Very stable on jumps though.
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
And they were a LOT different then.
And I was just thinking about something... I can't imagine how I got anything doneback then.
It's notable how different things are now.... bars back instead of forward, seats slammed instead of sky-high, chainrings tiny, etc.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
7.9" bars. Feels ok in the basement, will have to wait till tomorrow to ride it for real. Funky frame with almost 16" CS and 22" TT. Very stable on jumps though.
you might like to flip the stem over. that'll bring the bars down.... looks fun though.
 

ebrider510

Monkey
Dec 7, 2006
410
0
Bay Area, CA
nice job sittingduck, what bars are those? let us know how you like it.

i really wish the Subrosa Cruisers didn't have a long rear end. aesthetically, they really appeal to me.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
So...what would be the difference between a "MTB" 24" with a non-suspension corrected rigid fork and a 24" cruiser? I found a Mongoose Ritual that the kid was able to take all the material out of the dropout to completely slam a 24" wheel into, looks like it BARELY clears the 24"x2.2" tire. Said the CS length is right at 13.75"!
Run an S&M Pitchfork and some 3-4 inch bars? LONG tt tho, like 23"
 

BikeSATORI

Monkey
Apr 13, 2007
723
0
one world...
So...what would be the difference between a "MTB" 24" with a non-suspension corrected rigid fork and a 24" cruiser?
a pedal dragging bb height.


THRILLSEEKA said:
I found a Mongoose Ritual that the kid was able to take all the material out of the dropout to completely slam a 24" wheel into, looks like it BARELY clears the 24"x2.2" tire. Said the CS length is right at 13.75"!
Run an S&M Pitchfork and some 3-4 inch bars? LONG tt tho, like 23"
that's talkin' 20" slammed short, at 13.75! I couldn't even imagine it, possibly on the verge of ridiculous, but would be fun to try, haha.


I have a hard time believing that though. How did he grind so far forward in the dropout slot without hitting weld or chainstay?
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
I'd send you a pic, but I'm buying it just cuz it's dirt cheap!
He also mightbe full of crap, I'm gonna check it out more. But it was, I believe, an 06 Ritual that was set up for 24/26. He took out just under an inch or something, then cut off the back of the dropout as I imagine it looked awfully funny. Says a 26 won't fit anymore.
Not sure I buy the 13.75" CS length yet, though...
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
Hmmm...well, there's DEFINATELY enough metal in that dropout to cut out...a LOT. That's already on 24s... Don't know about a sub-14" CS, but damn short. And yeeeeeeah....the BB height is 12.7" on the 08 Ritual with 26" wheels....24s and a rigid? So much for pedaling...
Cruiser it is!
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
Sittingduck:
Is that 16" to your axle? Cuz it LOOKS like you could shove that wheel forward another inch or more... I'm assuming you KNOW that so I'm not sure why I felt the need to say it...


What were we talking about?
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
Sittingduck:
Is that 16" to your axle? Cuz it LOOKS like you could shove that wheel forward another inch or more... I'm assuming you KNOW that so I'm not sure why I felt the need to say it...
What were we talking about?
Center of axle to center of crank. I could move it up if my tire was 1-1/8 wide. :plthumbsdown:
As it is, the 1.95 holyroller clears the stays by about 3/16". (pretty tight) It's probably a race cruiser, designed for longer CS and/or thinner tires.
I took it to the djs and the skatepark today, and had a BLAST.

 

Bryan67

Chimp
Nov 23, 2007
83
0
Fresno, Ca.
Enough of these cheapo 24`s. If you guys are serious about a cruiser then look into something like an S&M or a Standard. Thats quality and good geometry. You will have to pay to play though.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
Why...cuz you did? I don't buy that **** at all man, sorry.
Why dump a bunch of cash into something you don't even know if you're gonna like for one? Not to mention, I haven't seen either of those companies with a 24 with ANY better geo! If they did, there wouldn't be 20 threads up here all looking for a better cruiser. So why would I wanna pay more to play on the same damn bike?
Sounds to me like you mighta just paid too much and don't wanna feel silly alone... :)
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
Enough of these cheapo 24`s. If you guys are serious about a cruiser then look into something like an S&M or a Standard. Thats quality and good geometry. You will have to pay to play though.
Whatever man...

S&M - Plain 4130 w/ 15.5" CS (slammed) = big whoop.
Standard - 15.4" CS (slammed) = yawwwwn.

So what exactly did you pay for?! Those frames cost what my complete Haro did and my geo is much better.
 

ebrider510

Monkey
Dec 7, 2006
410
0
Bay Area, CA
Whatever man...

S&M - Plain 4130 w/ 15.5" CS (slammed) = big whoop.
Standard - 15.4" CS (slammed) = yawwwwn.

So what exactly did you pay for?! Those frames cost what my complete Haro did and my geo is much better.
exactly..

which model Haro do you have and how tall are you?
 

Bryan67

Chimp
Nov 23, 2007
83
0
Fresno, Ca.
Whatever man...

S&M - Plain 4130 w/ 15.5" CS (slammed) = big whoop.
Standard - 15.4" CS (slammed) = yawwwwn.

So what exactly did you pay for?! Those frames cost what my complete Haro did and my geo is much better.
You get a quality US handmade frame and a choice of your components instead of a Taiwan made mass produced bike with marginal components. I`m thinking you haven`t ridden for long or at least not much BMX. These companies are rider owned and have history. Haro is now a huge corporate company that still makes ok product but its just not the same. You are just not going to find a BMX cruiser with 14" chainstays. You may as well just stick to a MTB/dirt jum bike. I think you might change your tune if you held a quality frame in one hand and a Haro (Or something similair) in the other hand.
 

BikeSATORI

Monkey
Apr 13, 2007
723
0
one world...
You get a quality US handmade frame and a choice of your components instead of a Taiwan made mass produced bike with marginal components. I`m thinking you haven`t ridden for long or at least not much BMX. These companies are rider owned and have history. Haro is now a huge corporate company that still makes ok product but its just not the same. You are just not going to find a BMX cruiser with 14" chainstays. You may as well just stick to a MTB/dirt jum bike. I think you might change your tune if you held a quality frame in one hand and a Haro (Or something similair) in the other hand.
I think you're going the wrong way with this...

The quest Bulldog (among others) seems to be going on is for ideal geo. numbers, not contest of build quality. Build quality can in some ways help the ride of the bike, but the geo. numbers will determine much more.
(btw, I don't want to speak for him, but I'd put money down that Bulldog knows exactly what S&M and standard are and fully represent)

I think you're also underestimating the manufacturing power and technology Taiwan actually has. You cannot judge them based on their lowest end products.

I think we will soon be seeing some sort of cruiser 24" frames out there with CS lengths in the 14's, it's just a matter of time, the demand is here and real. Place your bets now.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
Damn, I'm glad you showed up Satori...That was a LOT more mature than the answer I was gonna leave. Mine would have involved something about "grasping at straws" and "ignorance" and the respect for the skills that the assemblers/welders there posess that constantly make it more feasible to ship stuff over an ocean than to try to do here. But I pretty much would have summed it up with mentioning that that was pretty much THE most ignorant response to an attack that I've ever heard on here.

Now I'm going to go ride my $400 bike and be a lot less happy now, knowing that if I'd only spent the same amount on a US built frame I'd only have a frame, but it would instantly make me a much better rider.

Damn that Chinese steel shipped over a sea to the US to be welded instead of Chinese steel welded THEN shipped over a sea! Damnit it all to heck!
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
I think you're going the wrong way with this...

The quest Bulldog (among others) seems to be going on is for ideal geo. numbers, not contest of build quality. Build quality can in some ways help the ride of the bike, but the geo. numbers will determine much more.
(btw, I don't want to speak for him, but I'd put money down that Bulldog knows exactly what S&M and standard are and fully represent)

I think you're also underestimating the manufacturing power and technology Taiwan actually has. You cannot judge them based on their lowest end products.

I think we will soon be seeing some sort of cruiser 24" frames out there with CS lengths in the 14's, it's just a matter of time, the demand is here and real. Place your bets now.
Shoot man, with responses like that you can speak for me as much as you want! :)

Geo comes before company "rep" for me. Also "US made quality" is a crock of poo and surely not worth paying a premium for. Lastly my CS's could be in the high 14's if I chose to run a smaller tire but my frame is extinct and rare and virtually unknown and (IMO) very under-appreciated for what it offered years before the *premium* US brands. The big corporations from overseas CAN innovate!
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
exactly..

which model Haro do you have and how tall are you?

I'm 6'1" and currently 250+. I look like a gorilla on a 20" and no matter how big they are they will always be too tiny for my preferences. That, and I'm a MTB'er first, BMX'er second so my point of reference is always 26" wheels and frames sized to fit adults. ;)

I have both an '04 and '05 Haro Nyquist R24. The '05 is much more desirable to me as it's quite a bit lighter and has much shorter CS's. Both were much burlier than anything else I could find out there at the time (14mm axles, 40/48h wheels, big tire clearance, happily runs pegs, etc.). As happy as I was with the '04 I had to pick up the '05 less than a year later because it fixed everything I wished could be better on the '04.
 

Bryan67

Chimp
Nov 23, 2007
83
0
Fresno, Ca.
Well, not all Taiwan bikes are the same. In fact, the last cruiser I had (Still have the frame) was an overseas made Direct Link. I don`t think I ever said anything bad about non USA made product at all. And I have no problem running Chinese forged chromoly crankshafts and connecting rods in my VW`s either. I do believe that for the most part the complete bikes that are coming out of there leave a lot to be desired but again you get what you pay for. Some of the US companies will make what you want but it gets really expensive. Ride what workss for you and what you can afford. I don`t know... it seems that a lot of guys here will spend $600.00 plus for a 24 or 26 MTB (Or whatever they are called) frame but will turn around and ride a General Lee econo cruiser.
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
I don`t think I ever said anything bad about non USA made product at all.
You said:
You get a quality US handmade frame ... instead of a Taiwan made mass produced bike
You didn't call Taiwan crap but you put US-made on a pedestal, which IMO is the flip side of the same coin.

Working in a [GM factory] city that preaches support of "made in the USA" and seeing the "quality" of these employees (LOL) I always get fired up when these manufacturing and design superiority discussions start up. But mostly right now I'm just bored and tired of ice and snow! :)
 

ebrider510

Monkey
Dec 7, 2006
410
0
Bay Area, CA
Well, not all Taiwan bikes are the same. In fact, the last cruiser I had (Still have the frame) was an overseas made Direct Link. I don`t think I ever said anything bad about non USA made product at all. And I have no problem running Chinese forged chromoly crankshafts and connecting rods in my VW`s either. I do believe that for the most part the complete bikes that are coming out of there leave a lot to be desired but again you get what you pay for. Some of the US companies will make what you want but it gets really expensive. Ride what workss for you and what you can afford. I don`t know... it seems that a lot of guys here will spend $600.00 plus for a 24 or 26 MTB (Or whatever they are called) frame but will turn around and ride a General Lee econo cruiser.



you are right about that, but the reason I think many people in here won't go right ahead and buy a high end US made Cruiser frame is because for one they aren't sure if that is what they want and two like a few have said, the Geo really isn't any better. the materials and probably build quality are better, but it's the Geo that makes the bike. i think most if not everyone in here is well aware of Standard and S&M's rep and we all respect it to the fullest, but unless you are sure one of their frames is what you want then it isn't worth going for right away.


now if either of those companies decided to come out with a cruiser frame with new skool Geo, many people would come running..probably
 

ebrider510

Monkey
Dec 7, 2006
410
0
Bay Area, CA
I'm 6'1" and currently 250+. I look like a gorilla on a 20" and no matter how big they are they will always be too tiny for my preferences. That, and I'm a MTB'er first, BMX'er second so my point of reference is always 26" wheels and frames sized to fit adults. ;)

I have both an '04 and '05 Haro Nyquist R24. The '05 is much more desirable to me as it's quite a bit lighter and has much shorter CS's. Both were much burlier than anything else I could find out there at the time (14mm axles, 40/48h wheels, big tire clearance, happily runs pegs, etc.). As happy as I was with the '04 I had to pick up the '05 less than a year later because it fixed everything I wished could be better on the '04.
thank you, this is the info i have been looking for! you're the same height as me so that helps a lot. i was looking at the new haro x24 and it got me thinking about it. it seems long enough to fit me and the other Geo numbers are the best i've seen. i mite have to look into it..although i will have to get rid of one of my bikes if i want to get it (in this case my 20 or 26"...). its tough..really don't know if i could part with either one. if i ended up really diggin' it i could maybe even part with both and be happy.
 

chuffer

Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
887
259
McMinnville, OR
Interesting discussion here. EDIT: I just realized that what I say below is more or less what ebriders510 said already...

I think the econo-cruiser (I like that word) has its place, particularly something like the GL. I think they allow folks the chance to see how they like BMX geometry and feel without investing a ton of cash. The market is ready for this type of gateway bike and the manufacturers have recognized that. Good for them. Eventually when the market matures a bit maybe they will move toward a higher quality model with less racy geometry.

For now, the people who ride an econo-cruiser and like it, move on to something better.

The people who ride it a couple of times and lose interest wind up with a $250 townie.

Btw, I had a GL and in about 9 months I broke, bent or stripped everything except the front wheel, the frame and the stem. I am not the smoothest, but I am not that brutal either. My opinion: Good gateway bike, but the quality is pretty poor, except perhaps the frame itself.

With regard to size, I am 6'3" 200 lbs and I had no problem with the GL and a set of normal cruiser-height bars. My molly bars are actualy about a half inch lower than where the GL bars were.

Here is the only pic I could find of my GL right before I tore it down to build the Molly.
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
Preachin to the choir, sister! I'm in South Dakota... I hear your pain!
We had a heat wave this weekend - two days of 30+ degrees! Started to melt some of the 4" thick ice on my street, though it's like a mine field out there now. Today's forecast....SNOW! C'mooooon already!
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
7,826
910
Central Florida
Enough of these cheapo 24`s. If you guys are serious about a cruiser then look into something like an S&M or a Standard. Thats quality and good geometry. You will have to pay to play though.
The old "You didn't spend as much as me, so your X sucks." argument. Seen all around the internet in forums dedicated to everything from Beanie Babies to sports cars. I don't know about everyone else, but I think Bryan is the coolest thing since wet testicles. After all, HE SPENT MORE MONEY ON HIS BIKE. That must mean that Bryan is "hardcore," not that he's trying to elevate his social status with material objects.
 

Bryan67

Chimp
Nov 23, 2007
83
0
Fresno, Ca.
Thats funny. I did not spend a ton on my bikes because I do not have a ton of money. I have a family to support and do not have a lawyers salary to do it on. I apreciate quality no matter where it comes from. I`m not an all american/buy american guy. It just seems like all the cruisers I have seen that come from overseas are lower end complete bikes. I don`t see BMX bikes as "Gateway bikes" myself since thats all I`ve ridden for the past 30 years. I see the Working Class Hero I`m building as more of a gateway to an old man bike since I feel more comfortable riding a bigger bike now. No disrespect intended to Bulldog or anyone else here. Just interesting conversation.
 

urbaindk

The Real Dr. Science
Jul 12, 2004
4,821
0
Sleepy Hollar
When I was a kid back in the 70's, my dad drove an econoline van, so I guess in a way it makes sense that I would want to ride an econo cruiser....

Actually, gave up riding a 20" in about 1988, mostly because I out grew it. I traded it for a skateboard or something. I picked up MTBing in 1991 and have been doing it ever since. When I was a skater, I always rode street and park (such as it was in the 80's and early 90's) When I got into more aggressive MTB riding recently, it was pretty natural that I would want to ride street and park given my skating background. Doing so on the MTB was pretty hard on parts got expensive quick. So I started looking at alternatives. I'm pretty tall and I didn't think I would be real comfortable on a 20" so I started looking at 24's. I decided on a General Lee because it was cheap. If I didn't like it, I wasn't stuck with a huge investment. If I did like it, I could always upgrade if needed. I've been upgrading ever since.

What is wrong with that? Nothing.

Eaterofdog, the new bars look good. :)
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
2
Oregon
Updated pic of the 24" Mosh. 7.9" bars, and they feel pretty nice. I almost forgot how effortless it is to bunnyhop this thing.... I was hopping picnic tables with it as easily as curbs. :D