[buildyourown]

Are you sure it's the du bushings and not the linkages?

I'm trying to stay out of this since bibs is my friend. However, I rode this bike less than a month before he sold it and it had NO clunk so I doubt that he rode it long enough with bad bushings to do any frame damage.

 

[dfinn]

Well the DU bushings were a problem, but I replaced all of those and the reducers. When I first removed the shock I couldn't believe how loose those reducers were inside the DU bushings. It's much better now with all that being new but there is still a noticeable clunk which as far as I can tell is coming from the front most mounting point of the shock. I guess it's possible that if he rode it alot in that last month he had it it deteriorated to this. Either way there was a ton of play and a nasty clunk when I first got it. I was pretty hopeful that last night when I put it back together with all the new parts it would be ready to go, but to my dissapointment something is still not right.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Are you serious? Do you want to buy a bunch of stuff from me? Just send me 500 bucks and I'll send you a box of crap - some will be broken and some won't. I do guarantee that what does work will have cost $1000 retail when it was new, although I can't give you any guarantees about the condition of the parts. Deal?

Ok...just a quick note. I wasn't siding with DFinn or bashing on Bibs. I said "shame on"...that's sarcastic speak since I don't talk like that in real life. (It actually reminded me to email the guy who happily paid $1400.00 for my frame and headset only and let him know to do the same to avoid any frustration on his part...I fogot that part myself so I'm guilty in that respect)

Second, let's take the guys and their perceptions out of this and deal with straight up money "damages" to DFinn...I'll do worst case scenario. "Pretend I'm an arbitrator"
1. Missing bearing - $20.00 MAX to replace - that's the entire upper bearing
2. Blown BB -$45.00 MAX (unless you're geeky and gotta have XTR)
3. DU bushings - $20.00 MAX - (Romic usually will send you a pile at no charge if you're halfway cordial to them)
4. Longer axle clamp bolts $5.00 MAX (just need to take your current ones down to the hardwear store and tell them you need ones 5mm longer).
5. Sheared guide bolt - $15.00 MAX (I'm factoring in 3 day shipping on this one)
6. Right crank arm - $80.00 MAX (assuming you geek on XTR again)

That's $185.00 total cost to the buyer (regardless of them being either surprises to Bibs or known problems).

So now we have a grand total paid of $1300.00 for a $2100.00 frame, $200.00 chain guide, $200.00 crankset and BB, and $50.00 headset (hitting "normal" costs for these). This is to average out...even if DFinn has zero hookups at the shop.

Now we have $2550.00 cost at retail for Brand New everything.

So now we come to the bottom line...worst case scenario on everything here if DFinn were totally intentionally shafted and has to pay full kick for everything listed above (and this is not stating that Bibs didn't know, forgot to check or even intentionally deceived him, etc.) ....

.....DFinn got all this stuff with one season on it for dead on about half of full retail. That my friend is a good deal.

Now on to the most important part of the mechanical issue you have with the clunk. Go to www.turnerbikes.com Look up their phone #, call Greg or Casey and describe it to them. They'll have you give them a break down, try a few things...and tell you what the root of your problem is. Whether it is the shock or the frame pivots, they will help you resolve it in ONE CALL. Even if they have to refer you to Romic, they're nice about it.
Dude, you just hit the lottery by getting that bike... those guys will take really good care of you even though you aren't even the original warranty holder for a LONG TIME TO COME. You might never have to buy another frame again!!

Congrats! Sorry you had hassles but they're easily solved and no matter what, you're golden. TURNER RULES!

 

[Honeywell]

F**k that.

It doesn't matter if he got a good deal or not. At all. Ever. Period, the end.

Exactly! I recently sold my bike and I'll admit that it was in pretty poor condition. I listed EVERY single little thing wrong with the bike though. When the seller got it, he told me it was in better condition than he expected.

If I sell you a $2000 bike for $800 and there is bunch of crap wrong with it that you didn't tell me, "You got a good deal" is NOT an acceptable way to duck out of the problems.

 

[oly]

The romic DU bushing is for some reason pretty weak. I also battled this clunk throughout the season. But i can say that there are MANY pro DH bikes that seem to have this issue. Ive known many a intense rider who has a clunk in the shock mount, same goes for super 8 guys ive known, im sure theres more. Point is it happens, and will contiune with the current setup (2 piece spacers) I suggest you put in that new DU, and the solid pin with the 2 black o-rings (if bibs did send that to you). That is basically what roger from romic made the pro maxxis guys for their shocks, i just happened to have access to hard annodized shaft stock. Ive also heard someone say not to grease the DU as the grease can eat at the teflon coating. Anyone back that up?

 

[Echo]

Man if someone pulled that crap on me, I would be PISSED. I don't give a rat's ass what it cost retail when it was new. That's totally irrelevant. What is relevant is if the seller was honest about the condition of the item.

Sounds to me like bibs didn't want the frame anymore because it was beat to sh!t, so he suckered another RM member into buying it.

 

[narlus]

thumbs down on bibs. sounds like a crappy deal, not one which someone would be "lucky" to get. BV nailed it.

 

[dfinn]

The romic DU bushing is for some reason pretty weak. I also battled this clunk throughout the season. But i can say that there are MANY pro DH bikes that seem to have this issue. Ive known many a intense rider who has a clunk in the shock mount, same goes for super 8 guys ive known, im sure theres more. Point is it happens, and will contiune with the current setup (2 piece spacers) I suggest you put in that new DU, and the solid pin with the 2 black o-rings (if bibs did send that to you). That is basically what roger from romic made the pro maxxis guys for their shocks, i just happened to have access to hard annodized shaft stock. Ive also heard someone say not to grease the DU as the grease can eat at the teflon coating. Anyone back that up?

I got no explanation from him as to what that is (I guess he just assumed I would know but it doesn't sound like all that many people have access to this part) but once the new DU bushings start to wear I will be sure to replace it with that. Since I have new DU bushings and hardware in there now there should be no reason why that won't work correct? It's in there very snug and I can't immagine that it's the source of the clunk I am hearing.

 

[oly]

I got no explanation from him as to what that is (I guess he just assumed I would know but it doesn't sound like all that many people have access to this part) but once the new DU bushings start to wear I will be sure to replace it with that. Since I have new DU bushings and hardware in there now there should be no reason why that won't work correct? It's in there very snug and I can't immagine that it's the source of the clunk I am hearing.

Agreed, I wasnt saying this is the source of the clunk. I was only trying to say that i also had this issue through the season with the 2 piece spacer setup, and after talking to roger at romic decided to mimic the solid pin he told me he was working on. At the time he said it was a few weeks out, and i didnt want to wait and race with a clunky bike.

If this new systems eventually clunks again, then try to get a new DU and uses my solid pin.

 

[blue]

Wow man, that blows, I'm way sorry. Thanks for the heads up on Bibs. So is there a possibility that the frame is damaged beyond repair? That would be totally jacked if it was...

 

[zedro]

gosh, someone bought something used that wasent like new....

 

[dfinn]

did you even read any of the above? Obviously I knew it wasn't going to be in perfect shape, but the things that were wrong with it were problems that I should've been made aware of. Let me know the next time you buy something expensive that needs $100 to make is usable but you just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, it's used".

 

[zedro]

Let me know the next time you buy something expensive that needs $100 to make is usable but you just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, it's used".

actually yes. I would expect every bearing and bushing to be potentially shot, and every bolt needing replacement for some reason or another. I guess i'm just a realist.

and your complaing only 100$ to get a high end DH rig rolling? have you ever bought a used car? if 100$ is alot compared to what you paid for, you may need to change sports.

 

[dfinn]

My only complaint is that I wasn't told about this up front. I knew the bike had been ridden hard but I also thought it had been maintained.

 

[bibs]

My only complaint is that I wasn't told about this up front. I knew the bike had been ridden hard but I also thought it had been maintained.

then you never listened when I told you ..

ONCE again..I told you about what I knew about and provided you with the necessary parts to fix it, I did also explain what the part was that OLY had made and I sent you...it took 5 mins to explain due to you not understanin, then I ASKED YOU.if oyu understood, you sad I think so, I then said let me know if you do not I can explain more...its funny, I understand you are pissed but you are not telling the whole story. So great a bunch of people have read only what you have said and give afukk what I said..but whatever, the bike rode fine when I had it, i sold it to buy a DEMO 9, hte bike was fine, I would have kept it if it wasnt for the deal I got. But what ever go back to bashing me, hopefully you all feel better... theres always two sides t oa story....but I dont have the time to explain mine at work.(it took me 35 mins to type this at work)

 

[dfinn]

you never told me the BB was shot, a bolt was sheared, two pinch bolts were stripped. you only provided the fix for one of the DU bushings, both were totally gone. and even with both of those fixed there's still a clunk in the rear suspension. A+ seller. I'm the bad guy here.

 

[zedro]

My only complaint is that I wasn't told about this up front. I knew the bike had been ridden hard but I also thought it had been maintained.

the reason i expect these things is because:

1) these are the type of things i expect need changing on my own bike after a season

2) these are the type of things that people owning their own bikes are not necessarily aware of. For example I laugh when i hear that someones been riding in mud and pressure spraying their bike for 3 years and think their bearings are still good, when really they are probably seized and spinning on their reducers.

Any part that can exhibit wear (ie. is involved with friction) i expect may need replacing, even if the seller truly doesnt.

And buying a one year old BB? common, some people consider themselves lucky if their BB lasts a few months. Those are the type of things i expect the seller to just throw in because they cant be bothered to take them off the bike, or give as a pitance....

 

[bibs]

you never told me the BB was shot, a bolt was sheared, two pinch bolts were stripped. you only provided the fix for one of the DU bushings, both were totally gone. and even with both of those fixed there's still a clunk in the rear suspension. A+ seller. I'm the bad guy here.

look dude, we talked about it over the phone, and I told you I would see what I cando AND offered to send you some hubs, JUST to make you feel better..did I not?? funny you never mentioned any of this. the bolts were stipped out at the shop, not by me...and we discussed all of this on hte phone. Funny how you forget to mention stuff...but what ever....

 

[dfinn]

look dude, we talked about it over the phone, and I told you I would see what I cando AND offered to send you some hubs, JUST to make you feel better..did I not?? funny you never mentioned any of this. the bolts were stipped out at the shop, not by me...and we discussed all of this on hte phone. Funny how you forget to mention stuff...but what ever....

that's great. I can offer to buy you a new truck but if you never get it then what's it matter. I haven't gotten any hubs from you, not that I asked for them or even need them. The one thing I did ask from you is a simple reimbursement for the money I've put into this so far. At first you said you would look into and now you are calling me a d1ck and an a$$hole via PMs. At this point I just hope I can get the frame into a state where I can ride it. I just wanted to let other people know, that's all. I don't want to deal with you anymore.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

the reason i expect these things is because:

1) these are the type of things i expect need changing on my own bike after a season

2) these are the type of things that people owning their own bikes are not necessarily aware of. For example I laugh when i hear that someones been riding in mud and pressure spraying their bike for 3 years and think their bearings are still good, when really they are probably seized and spinning on their reducers.

Any part that can exhibit wear (ie. is involved with friction) i expect may need replacing, even if the seller truly doesnt.

And buying a one year old BB? common, some people consider themselves lucky if their BB lasts a few months. Those are the type of things i expect the seller to just throw in because they cant be bothered to take them off the bike, or give as a pitance....

I guess so much for bike maintenance. These things should have been checked durning the tear down.

 

[dfinn]

Some people have asked me to be fair to show the PMs that I have. Here are the two that have relavent info on the bikes condition:

the only scrathces are on hte chain stay, which has a clear sticker covering it. but there are some scratches there. the rest of the frame has motor cycle protective tape over it. and can be peeled off to look new.

forogt to answer htis queston, no it wasnt ridden hard. Romic has rebuilt the shock at the Idaho NORBA national and I worked to much this year to really ride hard or alot. I am in school and work full time, so Its in good shape, the cranks, the paint has been rubbed off of arms though, and I didnt ride that much, iuts weird, but its al in good shape.

and he advertised it on here as :

I raced it one season, there are scrathces onthe chain stay, and the rest of the bike has clear tape over it.
Its pretty sweet, I really like the bike, but school has to come first.

so there ya go. That's my full side of the story, this is how it was sold to me.

 

[Spunger]

You know this is too similar to me.

I bought a used 2002 Intense M1. I paid $1550 shipped for a 02 super T, ringle headset, raceface prodigy stem, rear hayes comp brake, thomson post, titec ringleader bars, wtb seat, and 8" hayes rotor.

When I got the bike in the mail the rotor was bent, super T wasn't in the best of shape, raceface stem was a XC stem, brakes were crap, wtb seat was thrashed, and ringle headset was missing pieces. I figured I could sell of the parts to make the frame a little lest costly. I think after selling all the parts I ended up paying $1100 for the frame. I thought I had a good deal! A 2002 Intense M1 with Ti coil 5th element, sounds like a solid price right?

WRONG. The hanger was bent, easy fix. Main pivot bearings shot....hmmm......well there went $50 for a bearing kit which I just replaced the 2 shot frame bearings. 5th Element rattled like a mofo, DU bushings shot. $20 more down the tubes for new DU bushings. So after all this the bike got built up with new parts for the most part. 5th Element had a nasty clunk, sent in to get rebuilt...$100 later. Now all the sudden my bike doesn't seem like a good deal.

Other misc problems were that I wanted a 12mm axle (my problem) so did that route. After messing my rear hub up having Hope fix it for $30 after I was out already $30 for my goof that's another $60. The axle was $40. Jesus now I'm back up to where I started...... PLUS the hayes 8" adapter had to be grinded down. After that was all said and done, the bike is perfect to me

Story is.........it is USED. I ran into stripped bolts as well. I got lucky to find some replacements for cheap. Truth is bibs went through the right thing having a bike shop do the packing and sending........it sucks that they did such a shotty job. What did my bike come in??? A bicycle box, with NO padding.....and that was the "bike shop" deal. I couldn't hold the seller responsable for this. It was out of his hands. As far as the problems with the bike I wrote him with a list of them just so he knew he sold me something that wasn't described. For the few things that were wrong I wasn't going to cry a river over it, fix them and go on. So what if you have to call Turner and get a hardware kit, new bushings etc.....atleast then the frame is good to go. Small price if you ask me.

And with all the parts he might have sent, theres no "retail" value in used parts. So I got a $700 retail fork.....should that make my deal seem even better??? NO, used parts don't count like that. Bikes loose their value so quickly it's not even funny. Sure he paid $2200 new for that frame and has to sell it for $1200-1300 with parts. I know when the day comes to sell my M1 and get something new I ain't going to get $1100 for it. I'll be lucky to get $800-1000 for it. It's just the game....

Again, buying USED stuff is always a gamble. I don't care who it is or what it is. Again like said before, $100 isn't much to get a used bike going. Even $200 isn't much. As long as there's no cracks or dents/dings, getting the shock redone and getting new bolts etc....is just kinda used maintence if you know what I mean. I'd just stop griping and fix the bike and ride it. I feel for ya believe me, but I also feel like the whinning is unnecessary on a used product. It's USED. USED USED USED!!!!!

If you were to buy a used car and it dies, it dies. What are you going to do, cry to the previous owner or dealership and ask them to fix it??? They'll give you an answer, but you won't like it......, because in the end it all comes back to being USED

 

[blue]

The lesson here is simple: Don't sell busted crap. And if you want to sell busted crap, tell people. I put new tires/wheels on my bike before trying to sell it because of that reason.

Nobody wants to buy broken sh!t for any vaguely reasonable price, no matter how cheap, thats why the seller is going to do one of two things:

A. Deceive buyers (As seems to be the case here) into buying broken sh!t

or

B. Fix broken sh!t, then sell it

If you spend too much to fix the broken crap on it, it's not worth selling...Meh. I'm off on some bizarre tangent now.

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

he left out some major infomation but you did get a kick ass deal! but still... he left out major **** which almost makes the frame unridable which is really ****ty because the DHR is a kick ass bike. I am always nervouse before buying something used over the internet... i am in the process of getting a Gemini but the guy selling it to me is trustworthy( i can tell and some friends of mine) and a really nice guy who needs the money to eat. I got a killer deal but i guess it will come back and hit you really hard. Was there any chance of you checking out the bike before you got it? Would he be willing to take it back and you keep all the parts YOU put on it and send it back the same way you got it and u get the money you send and try to get a different frame? Sorry about the ****ty luck! hope things work out!

 

[dfinn]

if it died before I even drove it off the lot you can bet your ass I would take it back.

 

[Spunger]

Nobody wants to buy broken sh!t for any vaguely reasonable price, no matter how cheap, thats why the seller is going to do one of two things:

A. Deceive buyers (As seems to be the case here) into buying broken sh!t

or

B. Fix broken sh!t, then sell it

Agreed! Selling things online is always iffy because you never know what someone elses "good condition" is. Is it your standard or......you know what I mean. My standard for new is never used.....but some it's LIKE new....which leaves a grey area. If the frame is "slighty blemished", what are they?? I'd assume a blemish is paint related, but to some it's dents/dings/stripped threads....who knows.

I'm just saying as a seller, you need to be 100% honest.......because it'll come back to get you sooner or later. Karma baby. As a buyer, don't be stupid and bite on the best deal. I'd ask 100 questions before buying a used frame again.....though I've learned my lesson. NO more used frames!!! Just pony up and get a new one. It's worth the headaches and hassels buying new vs. used.

 

[dfinn]

He doesn't seem willing to work with me at all on this. He's resorted to swearing at me and trying to justify to himself that I am the reason this deal didn't go through smoothly. I will hopefully be riding this bike this weekend, provided the shock mounts don't need any kind of major fix or that there aren't any other problems with the bike I have not found yet. Again, I am not trying to whine or complain. Just trying to possibly help avoid this in the future.

 

[Spunger]

if it died before I even drove it off the lot you can bet your ass I would take it back.

Well I don't want to be rude but that is obvious. If the car broke on the lot you wouldn't buy it. That's common sense.

Granted cars are a different ballgame then bicycles, to put $100 into a used car to make it work right is no biggy, even $200 or $300. Nothings perfect in the used world.

I'm just saying he as a seller has a job to inform the buyer of ever little thing he knows is wrong. IF he did that and YOU bought it, then he's in the clear. IF he didn't tell you everything then he's at fault, plain and simple.

If you didn't ask the right questions, then it's your fault and problem. If he posted "USED, Turner DHR, 2004, and said it's in good condition with this problem and that problem, buy me for $1300" and you just "buy it now" then you didn't do enough on your part.

It just sounds like to me both were in the wrong, bibs tried making it right but you're blowing it out of proportion. You usually do all the PM/Email/Phone calls with one another before bringing it public. He didn't rip you off, he didn't take your money and not deliver a bike. If it wasn't as described, you should have asked more questions before buying it.

Both buyers and sellers have responsibilties. I don't care what someone says. You both do, and there's no way I'd spend that much $$$ on something that I wasn't sure of what I was getting. In my previous post I bought it off Ebay. I asked my questions, the kid was an idiot, and off I went. I wouldn't even have taken it to this level, it wasn't necessary. I just no NOW not to buy used.

End of rant!

 

[Spunger]

Also as I've learned most bike companies will let you send your frame in for refurbishing (new powdercoat, Stickers, bushings/hardware, frame checks etc...) for a nominal fee. I think Intense was around $150-300 at the most which is a killer deal. I bet Turner offers the same thing. I'd just pony up and do whats needed so you can ride it. Again, I am in the same used boat as you and just offering my experiences on all this. IF I had to do it over again that's what I would have done.

Good luck though, in the end hopefully you are happy with the ride. Just learn from your mistakes, and from his mistakes. That way you aren't in this position again or any time soon

 

[zedro]

I guess so much for bike maintenance. These things should have been checked durning the tear down.

how many people actually to a complete teardown tho? most times this is down to the frameset, but not the suspension (how many people wait until they have an inch of play in the back). Hell i bet 90% of the front suspension owners out there never change their oil....until it starts leaking and they piss-n-moan about the crappy seal quality.

Even with a complete strip-down, i almost missed a bunch of cracks on my Kona Stinky that i was about to put up for sale. The only reason i eventually saw them was because i was cleaning every nook and cranny with a toothbrush and dunk-cleaner outside in the bright light. Had i been in the garage only wiping it down with a rag doing an inspection, i probably wouldn't have caught it and it might be in someone elses sorry hands by now. So sellers may not even be totally aware of the condition of their bike, either by ignorance, sloppyness or chance.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Also as I've learned most bike companies will let you send your frame in for refurbishing (new powdercoat, Stickers, bushings/hardware, frame checks etc...) for a nominal fee. I think Intense was around $150-300 at the most which is a killer deal. I bet Turner offers the same thing. I'd just pony up and do whats needed so you can ride it. Again, I am in the same used boat as you and just offering my experiences on all this. IF I had to do it over again that's what I would have done.

Good luck though, in the end hopefully you are happy with the ride. Just learn from your mistakes, and from his mistakes. That way you aren't in this position again or any time soon

I guess the thing that would suck is spending the $300 to have it refurbished when you could have spent another $200-300 and had a new frame after all was said & done.

 

[dfinn]

there's no way anyone could've ridden the bike and not known that there was a large amount of play in the rear end, you could clearly hear it and feel it. And he knew about this and didn't tell me ahead of time. I did ask as well, you can see his responses above. I know he knew about this ahead of time because he sent some of the parts to fix part of the problem, and when I asked him about it on the phone he knew exactly what I was talking about. But, he never mentioned this before the sale.

He also claims he didn't know about the BB but two people, one being a mechanic and one being another guy at work who rides on a regular basis but isn't much for working on bikes could tell right away when spinning the BB that it was done. I feel I did my part. I asked, you can see above how I was answered.

I don't need people to keep telling me that $100 isn't alot of money. I know that and I am not that bothered by the actual dollar amount. What bothers me is that he wasn't honest. That and I am not done putting money into the frame and I'm not sure how much more it will require.

 

[buildyourown]

When I bought a '02 DHR from a monkey a couple months ago, it had a lot of the same problems. Busted hanger cause the guy packed it wrong. Shot bearings and bushings. Missing headset parts. Cranks were assembled wrong. Did I whine about it? No, I fixed the stuff and figured I still got a killer deal when all is said and done.

Same happened with my truck. I owned it for a week and the tranny started making noise. Both batteries needed replacing. Oh, well. I paid $4k less than blue book so I still came out ahead.

dfinn, fix the clunk in the linkage and ride your bike. When all is said and done, you still got a great bike for the $1300 you put into it.

 

[dfinn]

I will be pretty dissapointed if it needs to go back to Turner and that costs me another $2-300. At that point I think I could've gotten a frame that was maintained and in better shape for that amount of money. We'll see. Kidwoo is going to diagnose it later this week.

 

[Spunger]

I guess the thing that would suck is spending the $300 to have it refurbished when you could have spent another $200-300 and had a new frame after all was said & done.

I totally agree 100%. It would suck, thus why I didn't do it to my frame. But point being, used is used in any world. I just know next time it's NEW for me!

I started seeing DHR's for sale used, pretty cheap. I then checked out go-ride and they wanted $2195 with a free Hadley TA rear hub. I don't see that as a bad deal at all. Most top quality DH frames are in the upper $1000 range to low-mid $2000 range. So now I know what game I'm into...

Either way though I feel ya on that one. It'd suck, but it's always an option

 

[Ridemonkey]

I like your attitude. I have some junk to sell. Want to buy it?

When I bought a '02 DHR from a monkey a couple months ago, it had a lot of the same problems. Busted hanger cause the guy packed it wrong. Shot bearings and bushings. Missing headset parts. Cranks were assembled wrong. Did I whine about it? No, I fixed the stuff and figured I still got a killer deal when all is said and done.

Same happened with my truck. I owned it for a week and the tranny started making noise. Both batteries needed replacing. Oh, well. I paid $4k less than blue book so I still came out ahead.

dfinn, fix the clunk in the linkage and ride your bike. When all is said and done, you still got a great bike for the $1300 you put into it.

 

[buildyourown]

I like your attitude. I have some junk to sell. Want to buy it?

Bibs' frame wasn't junk. It might need some attention, but I personally rode the bike less than a month before he sold it and it had no issues. That was a dry month too so I doubt that everything went to **** in that time.

bibs, I told you you should have sold me the bike when I was shopping. Would have saved us all a lot of issues.

 

[Ridemonkey]

The Washington crew is rushing to the rescue which is predictable. What you guys don't get is that this could have been very easily resolved in the beginning if any of the following had happened:

1. Bibs had offered a reasonable discount for the buyers trouble.
2. Bibs is responsible to get the bike to the buyer. Whether or not the "shop stripped the bolts" is not the buyers problem. Bibs should have reimbursed for this problem and then gone and raised hell at the shop if this is true.

Transferring all the responsibility to the buyer is crap. I just don't get it. If I were in Bibs shoes I would have made it right. 150 to make this right, is that all it would have took? What the hell is the problem?

 

[binary visions]

I can't believe you guys... You roll over and play dead just because there are a lot of deadbeats on the internet who sell worthless crap. "Oh, it's used, so you should expect all sorts of stuff to be wrong even though it's not listed"

Give me a break. He is wrong, wrong, wrong. When you tear down a bike, you need to intentionally look for things that are wrong with it in order to list them in your ad. Zedro, if you hadn't noticed those cracks, and sold the frame, and the buyer had noticed the cracks, wouldn't you have offered him his money back?

This "accept bad things when they happen" attitude is amazing. Do you guys roll over and play dead every time something bad happens?

 

[dfinn]

Bibs' frame wasn't junk. It might need some attention, but I personally rode the bike less than a month before he sold it and it had no issues. That was a dry month too so I doubt that everything went to **** in that time.

bibs, I told you you should have sold me the bike when I was shopping. Would have saved us all a lot of issues.

1. I never said the frame was junk.

2. You're right. I'm lying for attention.