[Dogboy]

1st. Spec went with a Swinger 4-way this year because they have proven more reliable (than 6-way) and many people seem to think they feel better. They also spec a Ti spring which adds a few $$$. I agree though that it is hard to justify a "substantial" price increase from last year for basically the same thing (no more/no less).

Regarding the 4-way vs. 6-way. Our contact at Manitou recently mentioned the 6-way would probably go away in the near future. Probably like Sean said due to reliability issues. It's still in the 2005 catalog, but may just be carry over inventory.

 

[gastro]

I agree with Sean. I broke my seven year old Specialized MAX frame a couple weeks ago. They are sending me an SX frame (probably an 04) as a replacement, no questions asked. That's the sort of service that earns repeat customers, and I doubt many of the boutique brands would respond in that fashion.

When I found out, I was so ecstatic, I ordered an SX Trail.

 

[zedro]

That's the sort of service that earns repeat customers, and I doubt many of the boutique brands would respond in that fashion.

and thats the sort of thing that drives up prices. Think of it as a type of insurance policy.

 

[kidwoo]

I agree with Sean. I broke my seven year old Specialized MAX frame a couple weeks ago.

Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it? Seriously, I've only heard of this happening once. Mainframe, not swingarm parts....I'd pretty much come to accept the fact that those things were indestructable within the realm of sane riding. I still peruse classifieds looking for one of those in a medium to use as a jump bike.

 

[kidwoo]

and thats the sort of thing that drives up prices. Think of it as a type of insurance policy.

That's kind of how I view both specialized and turner. I've broken their stuff before but had replacements from both companies within 4 days. But still.......I like specialized bikes a lot but I never thought I'd see the day when their frames cost more than a foes or an intense. Now it's actually cheaper for me to buy whatever turner makes for xc bikes. Strange turn of events for sure.

How much do your frames cost?

 

[zedro]

How much do your frames cost?

hmm, the price fluctuates, but i accept money, beer, or hugs.

 

[Zark]

Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it? Seriously, I've only heard of this happening once. Mainframe, not swingarm parts....I'd pretty much come to accept the fact that those things were indestructable within the realm of sane riding. I still peruse classifieds looking for one of those in a medium to use as a jump bike.

I have seen one failure at the BB on those. It seemed like most held up really well.
I loved the MAX frame, I had a '98 that I never should have sold. I look around for those too!

 

[math2014]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

 

[gastro]

Holy crap really? Do you have any pictures of it?

Sorry, no pics...the seat tube broke at the top weld to the "mast" and peeled off at the back bottom of the post (about an inch below the minimum insertion hole).

My buddy has a cherry 98 Large with a lot fewer miles...I'm first on the list if he ever decides to get rid of it. Geometry is very similar to the SX.

 

[kidwoo]

I have seen one failure at the BB on those. It seemed like most held up really well.
I loved the MAX frame, I had a '98 that I never should have sold. I look around for those too!

The one I heard about was just an ovalized head tube that happened in what sounded like a pretty spectacular crash. But seriously, what was the last year those frames were made? 99? So now I know of three.......... I know they were expensive to extrude but I can't believe no one has copied those frames or that specialized quit making them.

I've got a BETD chainstay and a Risse seatstay on a 2000 enduro. If those were on one of the max backbone frames, I'd think that would be burlier than the sx bikes they're making now.

I just went to go grab some lunch and saw a guy riding one through town on one off the old black ones with the double crown manitou forks from 98.

 

[Zark]

I just went to go grab some lunch and saw a guy riding one through town on one off the old black ones with the double crown manitou forks from 98.

Bwahaha, thats the one I used to have! The '98 FSR pro. The last of the MAX frames was in 2000. The FSR DH (not SWorks) 6" had big USA flag stickers on it.

Didn't Marin use the same D-shaped extrusions on their bike for a while?

 

[dante]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

uh, I call bs. got any proof?

 

[math2014]

uh, I call bs. got any proof?

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

 

[zedro]

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

so? Toyota runs their own 'stock' car race series, Honda made a robot that can walk up stairs.....anecdotal evidence isnt evidence at all....

 

[Damn True]

call whatever you want bro, 7 consecutive F1 championships

The most efficient road cars, etc etc.... plus they belong to one of the biggest industrial groups worldwide.

That should proove some

BTW, success is bought in F1.

Ferrari has an R&D group charged with developing what, like 3 models tops? Cars that are hand built at a rate of......well paint drys faster.

Toyota has something like 30 models worldwide (conservative) that have to be designed for mass production (much more difficult).
There are probably more engineers in Toyotas truck division than Ferrari has TOTAL employees.

 

[math2014]

Werent we talking about top end automotive technology? applied to races? if not then i am wrong

 

[punkassean]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

No way!

Toyota has sheer volume, waaaaay bigger co.

 

[math2014]

Ok lets get it straight, are we talking about the supercar departments or the company as a whole? coz if we are talking about the company as a whole then it is a different conversation, since we wont be talking about Ferrari anymore.

And thats not the point.

The point is that the new SX is overpriced! hence these constitutes Ferrari a better company....savvy?

 

[gastro]

The FSR DH (not SWorks) 6" had big USA flag stickers on it.

I saw someone riding one of those at Snowshoe this year. The '98 DH was black like the pro, but with an orange flame job (Palmer...*spits*) and an orange box section rear triangle that afforded the tire clearance that all Enduro owners until now have lusted for.

Toyotas are nice, but I bet their best effort wouldn't sound nearly as good as a Ferrari. Regardless, I'd get the McLaren F1 - ///M power.

 

[math2014]

mclaren f1 rocks. I saw it several years ago up close and personal...in mclarens dealer in London... now that was a car to remember.

 

[ohio]

Out of subject, but actually ferrari has ****loads of more cash and engineers than Toyota.

hahahahahahaahahaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

if Toyota wanted to, they could quite easily devote an equal amount of cash and engineers to any segment ferrari competed in. not that that would matter. ferrari isn't handicapped by a lack of sound engineering (as you said, look at f1, all engineering)... they're handicapped by production and distribution abilities. Which is why toyota would be able to produce a car of far better quality for the money, or of equal quality for less money. In fact, having spent a bit of time in an f355 side-by-side with an NSX, I'd say the ferrari's quality was downright shoddy for about twice the money (at the time). Now the ferrari was faster, but if we're talking about QUALITY rather than pure performance, ferrari doesn't even come close. I would put it around the same level as my subaru forrester, and well below what I would expect from toyota and honda even at the camry/accord level.

Maybe they've improved in the past couple of years...

 

[Bikael Molton]

What happened to the "SX Enduro"?
I thought that NSMB mentioned one... A SX-type frame with a slightly lighter, all-mountain-type build?

Or are the Pro/Expert/Trail "enduro" frames the same?

-r

 

[punkassean]

What happened to the "SX Enduro"?
I thought that NSMB mentioned one... A SX-type frame with a slightly lighter, all-mountain-type build?

Or are the Pro/Expert/Trail "enduro" frames the same?

-r

Dude, are feeling alright?

How could you have missed the pic I posted on pg.1 of this thread???

The bike is called the "SX Trail"

 

[Bikael Molton]

No - I meant that all-mountain type Enduro, not the "Trail" one that is basically light-FR.

I re-read the NSMB article. I think it implies that the Enduro Pro/Enduro Expert/Enduro SX Trail share the same frame, with the SX Trail being the toughest build and the Pro/Expert being lighter but less rugged.

The plain "SX" is the MTX bike - with different frame geometry.

Anyway - all these bikes look nice, but expensive. I don't think I'd ever spend that much money on a complete-built bike. I'd want to choose my own parts for that kind of money.

http://www.nsmb.com/gear/sxtrail_09_04.php
quote from that article:
"So to get this straight, the Enduro will be an all-mountain bike - but one that is meant to be ridden hard - harder than the old Enduro. The SX trail, with the same travel as the Enduro, will be adorned with componentry ready for freeride nastiness - a Whistler Bike Park worthy bicycle. The SX will be designed to be raced on the toughest 4X and dual courses on the orb. This of course makes it ripe for dirt jumping and street applications as well. While the Enduro and SX trail share the same geometry and frame, the SX has shorter chainstays, a lower centre of gravity and BB and only 4.2" of rear travel (designed to accept a four or five inch fork)."

Dude, are feeling alright?

How could you have missed the pic I posted on pg.1 of this thread???

The bike is called the "SX Trail"

 

[Damn True]

First of all you are quoting an internet website as gospel with is really really funny.

Here's the dealio....
There is the standard Enduro FSR (last years chassis)
There are the new Enduro's 6" f/r fox/5th
There is an Enduro SX 4.5" travel 4x bike
There is an Enduro SX trail the one pictured on page one of this thread.

Choose your weapon.

 

[Bikael Molton]

Thanks - actually I wasn't taking anything for gospel - just trying to get a little clarification.
I'm sorry that I found the nomenclature for these new bikes a little confusing.
I count 3, maybe 4 different frames that are called "Enduro" something.

TGIF - everyone get some good dirt time this weekend! Montara en la manana.

-r

First of all you are quoting an internet website as gospel with is really really funny.

Here's the dealio....
There is the standard Enduro FSR (last years chassis)
There are the new Enduro's 6" f/r fox/5th
There is an Enduro SX 4.5" travel 4x bike
There is an Enduro SX trail the one pictured on page one of this thread.

Choose your weapon.

 

[Damn True]

Northstar en la manana

 

[math2014]

hahahahahahaahahaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

if Toyota wanted to, they could quite easily devote an equal amount of cash and engineers to any segment ferrari competed in. not that that would matter. ferrari isn't handicapped by a lack of sound engineering (as you said, look at f1, all engineering)... they're handicapped by production and distribution abilities. Which is why toyota would be able to produce a car of far better quality for the money, or of equal quality for less money. In fact, having spent a bit of time in an f355 side-by-side with an NSX, I'd say the ferrari's quality was downright shoddy for about twice the money (at the time). Now the ferrari was faster, but if we're talking about QUALITY rather than pure performance, ferrari doesn't even come close. I would put it around the same level as my subaru forrester, and well below what I would expect from toyota and honda even at the camry/accord level.

Maybe they've improved in the past couple of years...

On the F1 side, Toyota is on the F1 championship, getting flak from Ferrari as any other team, so i do not see how they can do something against scuderia. With respect to commercial cars i agree...it is david vs Goliath.

I hope in the near future that your F1 point prooves to be true in order to see some true F1 competition.