[jdcamb]

Performance automotive air filters contaminated my air induction system on my truck. WTF? They claim to improve your mileage and horsepower but that is a bunch of ****. The MAF sensor was so fouled it had to be replaced. My Throttle body has been cleaned twice and I may have to replce the IAC valve. The cheap stock filters actually work the best. Who knew.....

 

[SkaredShtles]

They improve your mileage and horsepower by letting lots more air in. Along with lots more contaminants.

That sucks, dude. I always go for the cheap air/oil filters. Just change them reasonably frequently.

 

[jdcamb]

The filters were treated with a chemical that coated the entire air induction system. Some kind of oil to make the filter last longer.

My mechanic had a used induction system from someone who upgraded to a K&N system. He said I can have it for free if I help install it and make him some BBQ brisket. He's a cool guy....

 

[dhbuilder]

K&N.
easy to maintain, and they do make a difference.

did you install it yourself or was it done by some else ?
either way you may have some kind of recourse to compensate for you expenses.

nowadays with ethanol being integrated into our fuels.
injection systems have been taking a beating.

 

[mud'n'sweat]

I use K&N myself. Been really happy with them.

 

[SkaredShtles]

This thread kind of debunked the expensive air filter myth:

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151333&highlight=K&N

 

[jdcamb]

This thread kind of debunked the expensive air filter myth:

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151333&highlight=K&N

Nothing there mentioned about these: http://www.upmpg.com/filters/ea_air_filter/index.html

My Dad has been using AMSOIL products for years. The warranty only applies to products installed by an AMSOIL dealer. I bought mine after market. MotherFackers.

 

[dhbuilder]

been a muscle car gearhead since i was fifteen.
many a time i wish a mistake would have only cost $400.

jeez nowadays a mistake on a dang downhill bike can cost you that much.

 

[jimmydean]

I stick to AC Delco or Fram. I would rather suck less crap than gain 5hp. If I want 5hp, I can get it somewhere other than letting crap fly into my engine.

K&N sound like a great idea, but the lack of "filter" in a filter is a bad idea. Sorry to hear you learned it the hard way. Just go all redneck style and pull the bastard off all together!

 

[Gremil]

Nothing there mentioned about these: http://www.upmpg.com/filters/ea_air_filter/index.html

The Amsoil Ea Air Filters are not oiled and have new technology filtration so absolutely no dirt enters the engine. Look for other brands to imitate this in the next few years.

K&N is oiled and so were the previous Amsoil Foam air filters. The oil can get into the MAF sensor and contaminate it causing some problems. This is hard to prove, but I'm sure it may happen from time to time. Those new Ea Filters are dry yet cleanable so they by-pass the problems from the oil and from dirt getting by the filter.

Remember, Gauze filters like K&N not only are oiled, but let pass monstrous amounts of dirt. I have seen many used oil samples sent out for lube analysis come back with elevated silicon (sand) levels in the used motor oil on engines using the gauze type cotton filters. If you don't oil the gauze filters, as well and the foam filters, even more dirt gets into the intake. Dirt apparently gets into the motor oil by being forced passed the pistons by the force of combustion. I was horrified that dirt getting by my K&N air filter showed up in my motor oil.

The Foam air filters filter best when oiled, better than any other media. The trade off is that they are more heavily oiled. Don't oil them and they let pass monstrous amounts of dirt. They shouldn't cause a problem with carbureted hot rods, but I would caution using them over oiled in modern fuel injected cars.

Paper filters don't all filter the same nor do they flow the same. Fram has a lot of pleats creating more surface area and they don't filter overly well like the factory OEM filters which is why they out flow gauze filters like K&N at full throttle. If you buy a Wal-Mart filter it will have a thinner, less effective media and less pleats giving much less air flow and letting pass more dirt. AC and Motorcraft may have a lot of pleats, but filter better which lessens air flow.

Wix makes a line of Racing oil filters that give great air flow with reasonably great filtration. It's a good compromise for those looking for better performance and scared of the new technology the Amsoil Ea Filters employ.

Just FYI!

 

[maxyedor]

I'm a big fan of K&N for the street, but use the paper POS filters off-road. For your throttle body have you tried SeaFoam? It will clean just about any deposite you've got in your engine.

 

[pvfjr]

I stick to AC Delco or Fram. I would rather suck less crap than gain 5hp. If I want 5hp, I can get it somewhere other than letting crap fly into my engine.

I'd go with more AC Delco and less Fram. Fram is one of the worst, especially with oil filters. They just spend more money on advertising so people will think they are good. And they put the little grippy coating on them so we all will think they're fancy, I'm not buying it.

 

[jdcamb]

Replaced the induction system and now use CarCare air filters. Runs like a champ now. I also replaced the zip tie hose clamps with wire ratchet ones. I guess they were leaking. New plugs and wires too.

 

[LordOpie]

He said I can have it for free if I help install it and make him some BBQ brisket. He's a cool guy....

Have fun on your date. *fingers.crossed* he's the one.

 

[Gremil]

My Dad has been using AMSOIL products for years. The warranty only applies to products installed by an AMSOIL dealer.

This is actually not true. Amsoil Dealers don't have any expertise in installing filters. The warranty is managed through Amsoil Inc or any Amsoil warehouse!

It is true that Fram is one of the worst filters in actual performance. What is shocking is the fact that they actually do make a better performing filter, but it is white in color and costs more. When ever people see one of these Frams they usually ask, "Where did you get that?" The answer: "The same place you got your orange Fram! Wal-Mart!" People don't notice it if it ain't orange. Now that's good marketing! Buy it by brand name and familiar color and not by actual performance! I hope somebody shoots me if I ever get that senile! Just joking!

 

[pvfjr]

I hope somebody shoots me if I ever get that senile! Just joking!

Well I'd be willing to at least slap you. :devil:

 

[N8 v2.0]

I bought into the K&N hype back in the late 90's but have since learned that the stock paper Toyota filters are better... and cheaper.

 

[SkaredShtles]

The Amsoil Ea Air Filters are not oiled and have new technology filtration so absolutely no dirt enters the engine.

I don't believe this. Do you have evidence to support this?

 

[pixelninja]

I bought into the K&N hype back in the late 90's but have since learned that the stock paper Toyota filters are better... and cheaper.

Yeah, my K&N filter is due for a cleaning, but I'm thinking that I may just ditch it and go back to paper for now.

Nothing there mentioned about these: http://www.upmpg.com/filters/ea_air_filter/index.html

I'd be interested to find out more about these.

 

[Gremil]

I don't believe this. Do you have evidence to support this?

The information is tested in independent labs using the ISO 4548-12 Air Filter test method so it could be apples to apples. According to this ISO test these filters are 98.7% efficient at 15 microns. That means it stops 98.7 percent of all particles 15 microns or bigger. No filter has ever done that before and they are pushing this as a breakthrough.

What this filter is constructed of is cellulose underneath just like regular filters like OEM or brand names like Fram. But it also has an overlay of what they call "nanofibers" that are so fine they catch the fine particles while the cellulose catches the larger particles and gives the nanofibers support. It allows the same airflow as cotton gauze, but greatly improved filtration. Since it isn't oiled there's no mess and it won't interfere with any electronic sensor on your car. They can be cleaned and reused with a shop vac or compressed air.

For more information read this page:
http://www.upmpg.com/filters/ea_air_filter/index.html

These are new filters to me and I only know what people tell me. I am still leaning toward oiled foam for my carbureted cars for the airflow. But for my newer vehicles like my Dodge Grand Caravan I'll use the Ea Air Filter to avoid any problems with the MAF sensor.

The MAF sensor cleans itself by heating up to around 1100 degrees right after the engine is shut down. This shoud burn off any oil that may come from an oiled performance air filter. But if that filter lets in trash that won't burn off . . .well you get the idea. Better not to take the chance now that we know better.

 

[SkaredShtles]

The information is tested in independent labs using the ISO 4548-12 Air Filter test method so it could be apples to apples. According to this ISO test these filters are 98.7% efficient at 15 microns. That means it stops 98.7 percent of all particles 15 microns or bigger.

This doesn't sound much like "absolutely no dirt"..........

 

[jdcamb]

I'd be interested to find out more about these.

Yep I bought them on recommendation. They were expensive and they sucked. I am not a fliter guy so I can't really help you on info.

 

[pvfjr]

It's all relative. That's pretty much nothing compared to normal filters though.

 

[jdcamb]

Have fun on your date. *fingers.crossed* he's the one.

Yeah baby. The brisket was good too....

Actually he had his wifes sister over too. Total hottie. Supposedly 29yo financial planner. Big girl and I like that. Works out wants to do tri's. Digs guys that cook. Uhhh we'll see...

 

[Gremil]

This doesn't sound much like "absolutely no dirt"..........

I didn't mean for you to take me so literally! I was just making a statement to how well it filters.

Filters have improved a lot over the years. I really believe in good filtration. Sometimes the tech stuff gets hard to understand. But for those people who want to know, there are choices. That's why I mentioned the fact that Fram makes a better performing filter. Nobody uses it and very few people even notice it next to the orange Frams. But given the choice, it's much better than the orange ones. Yet most people buy what's familiar. Some of us buy what may perform better. It just depends on how picky you are.

My first K&N left sand in my motor oil. I made what I thought was an intelligent decision at the time. But sometimes you just don't get enough good information the first time. That's life! I'd like to think I know a lot more about filters now.

 

[-dustin]

Toyota threw away my K&N after 1000 miles. ****ers. those AEs look nice. no oil, too. i was a little hesistant to try the oil Amsoil filters.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I didn't mean for you to take me so literally! I was just making a statement to how well it filters.

Why not? You said it let in "absolutely no dirt" and then posted information contradicting that.

Information is good, not misinformation. That's what marketers do. You're not in marketing, are you?

 

[Gremil]

Toyota threw away my K&N after 1000 miles. ****ers. those AEs look nice. no oil, too. i was a little hesistant to try the oil Amsoil filters.

Those air filters you refer to, the oiled Foam Lt Amsoil Filters, are no longer available. They only have the Dry Ea Filters now. The do market green power sports oiled foam filters for ATVs, etc. made by Unifilter (you can tell by the green color).

Why not? You said it let in "absolutely no dirt" and then posted information contradicting that.

Information is good, not misinformation. That's what marketers do. You're not in marketing, are you?

Settle down SkaredShtles! Didn't mean to get you upset! We're just having a filter discussion here! I'm sure that when you get down to the molecular level we could say that no matter what something will get through any sort of filter. Sorry my exagerations had you going. By your standards only a sheet of glass would qualify for perfect filtration since nothing gets through it not even air!

I saw a pretty girl the other day and said, "Damn! That's the finest girl I've ever seen!" I'm glad you weren't there to have me qualify that statement too!

Just poking fun at 'ya!

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>

Settle down SkaredShtles! Didn't mean to get you upset! We're just having a filter discussion here! I'm sure that when you get down to the molecular level we could say that no matter what something will get through any sort of filter. Sorry my exagerations had you going. By your standards only a sheet of glass would qualify for perfect filtration since nothing gets through it not even air!

Data collection on air filters isn't rocket science. I simply took issue with your claim. You sounded like an Amway salesman, for crying out loud.

Edit: Maybe I should expect that, what with you being from Texas and all.

I saw a pretty girl the other day and said, "Damn! That's the finest girl I've ever seen!" I'm glad you weren't there to have me qualify that statement too!

So you're comparing air filter efficiency to attractive women? You are one weird dude.

You ever see scientists collecting data on hot chicks? Good job if you can get it........

 

[Gremil]

Maybe I should expect that, what with you being from Texas and all.

I almost hate to ask this considering your naturally abrasive demeanor, but what do you have against the state of Texas?

 

[snaps-alot]

Replaced the induction system and now use CarCare air filters. Runs like a champ now. I also replaced the zip tie hose clamps with wire ratchet ones. I guess they were leaking. New plugs and wires too.

most of the crud that went into the throttle bodies is from those zip ties i'm guessing...the oil from the filter just made it collect more. It's funny, I bought a k+n for my 2001 Pathfinder and I actually think it hurt the performance, was really rough going into gear from idle, so I changed it back after a couple hundred miles. the whole oil and contaminant thing scares me, and with cars so dependent on the mass airflow sensors I pretty much only use oem filters now, and they're way cheaper. at least you met a girl for your troubles :

 

[pixelninja]

The information is tested in independent labs using the ISO 4548-12 Air Filter test method so it could be apples to apples. According to this ISO test these filters are 98.7% efficient at 15 microns. That means it stops 98.7 percent of all particles 15 microns or bigger. No filter has ever done that before and they are pushing this as a breakthrough.

Got any links to these independent studies, besides the Amsoil website?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Got any links to these independent studies, besides the Amsoil website?

I say, who cares??? I have over 220,000 on my '97 4Runner and she runs like a top. My secret you ask?

Simple, I change my oil every 7-10k with a stock Toyota oil filter and I use stock Toyota paper air filters.

Perhaps filtering all those micro particals isn't going to help your engine one way or the other.

 

[Gremil]

Got any links to these independent studies, besides the Amsoil website?

Donaldson filters developed the nanofiber technology, but they may only have done in house testing. Amsoil pre-tests in house and then sends everything out to independent labs for certification because they compare to other brands and use brand names in their ads. This is to prevent lawsuits because everything is documented.

You can try Donaldson Filters first for documentation, but if they can't provide any I would say call Amsoil Inc. I would be surprised if Donaldson doesn't have good documentation though. They are big on showing off the performance of their filters.

Try these websites:
http://www.donaldson.com/
http://www.amsoil.com

Go to their contact page for phone or e-mail information. Amsoil claims that all of the information that they provide in print is documented and "available upon request." Give it a try.

Remember, K&N doesn't make any claims of superior filtration. Many retailers on TV ads or in Websites claim K&N filters better than regular filters. K&N just doesn't correct them.

I've done this:
Duct taped an air filter to a shop vac hose with a white cotton ball soaked in motor oil and put in the hose between the filter and shop vac. The motor oil on the cotton makes sure that any dust will be caught and not pass through the ball of white cotton. With the shop vac running I poured dirt I scooped up out of the street in front of my house into the air filter. When I untapped the hose and removed the cotton I could see how much dirt was caught on the cotton. I did this with an OILED K&N and the cotton ball came out loaded with dirt. My friends and I have poured dirt like this through different brands of filters, but only K&N splattered the cotton with that much dirt. Don't even think about not oiling the K&N because it lets even more dirt by.

The oiled foam filters show nothing passes when you pour dirt through them. But if you DON'T oil them they let just as much dirt pass as the K&N. Some places sell foam air filters dry. You really shouldn't use them as the only source of air filtration dry.

Brands like AC & Motorcraft seem to filter best when compared to Fram. Never tried the Toyota brand of other OEM brands. Just AC & Motorcraft. But there still wasn't very much visible dirt that passed through the Fram. But is seemed more than the AC and Motorcraft.

I know this isn't very scientific and we were just looking at a ball of oil soaked cotton laying on a screen in a shop vac hose using our own judgment on what looked like more dirt or less dirt. But the K&N left no doubt about dirt passing. If you own a K&N air filter you really should try this. It's a real eye opener.

One more thing; after pouring dirt through a paper air filter, any brand it seemed to filter better the next time you poured dirt through it. I guess the dirt sort of clogs some of the holes and the next time less dirt gets through. So if you try this with a used up filter and then try it again with a brand new one of the same brand you'll see a big difference. Just FYI.

Wix makes racing filters that supposedly flow great and filter reasonably well. I've never had one to try my little dirt test on so I don't know how well they filter. I'm considering a purchase of one of these for a high performance application I have. I think it's a good compromise.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I almost hate to ask this considering your naturally abrasive demeanor, but what do you have against the state of Texas?

Nothing at all. I think it's a great place for other people to live.

Don't mind my abrasiveness. I'm actually a really friendly bloke. :love:

 

[N8 v2.0]

Don't mind my abrasiveness. I'm actually a really friendly bloke. :love:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
Perhaps filtering all those micro particals isn't going to help your engine one way or the other.

That's what one of the independent studies said at the end - they could measure particulate data until they were blue in the face. But in the end, they made no claims as to how it all would affect engine longevity.

I think your method of regular maintenance is probably the best path.

 

[Gremil]

Don't mind my abrasiveness. I'm actually a really friendly bloke.

That's nice to know!

 

[SkaredShtles]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......

**** off, you twat! :eviltongu

 

[N8 v2.0]

**** off, you twat! :eviltongu

Is that a naughty word..??