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Spies Like Us

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,750
439
MA
Caught Spying on Student, FBI Demands GPS Tracker Back

A California student got a visit from the FBI this week after he found a secret GPS tracking device on his car, and a friend posted photos of it online. The post prompted wide speculation about whether the device was real, whether the young Arab-American was being targeted in a terrorism investigation and what the authorities would do.
Cost of F®eedom or blatantly crossing a line?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
(Blatantly stolen from my own Facebook post on DaveW's page concerning the same issue...)

This is actually a matter where long-held legal principles are being affected by technology and scales of efficiency. Installing a "beeper" type tracker (think 1970s transponder like in "No Country for Old Men") is a well-established form of surveillance in public and doesn't require a warrant to install the beeper while the car is in public space and the beeper isn't drawing power from the car. You don't have any expectation of privacy in public movements, by the very definition of "public", and the police can monitor those movements without even a need for suspicion.

But shoeleather (or tire rubber) surveillance, or even beeper-tracker surveillance, requires a active police involvement. So it's limited by manpower and simply can't be overbearing to the general public; by its nature, the police limit use (legitimate, legal use anyhow) to actual investigations. But these devices track and log information automatically, and theoretically the police could tag every single vehicle with one, just in case they want to know where it's been at some point if they happen to need the info. This would be like all of us being tailed by the police, all the time; real totalitarian state stuff. So there's a difference of scale and automation that does lead me to think some level of judicial or at least prosecutorial review should be involved in the installation of such a tracker.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
The same judicial review and prosecutorial discretion we currently have?

That's essentially useless. Rubber ****ing stamps and career whoring power hungry assholes are not a good safeguard.

Some nice work by the nitwits at Flowers By Irene, by the way. You think they could possibly source a larger tracking device? If you assholes are reading this on your TRS-80s, I'd like to compliment you on your fantastic work.
 
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MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
My experience with judicial and prosecutorial review has been far from a rubber stamp.

I once had a prosecutor insist I Mirandize a subject who *requested* an interview with us in a non-law-enforcement government office, and who didn't know we were law enforcement agents. (Miranda only applies when cops have someone in custody and are performing an interrogation...she was worried since the door closed behind him after he entered the office, it might be construed as "custodial.") Needless to say, wasn't exactly a boon to our case.

Just one example, but I can't recall a time when a judge or prosecutor didn't take a hard look at what I presented. 95% of the time, we got what we asked for, but it was because we presented coherent, well-supported documentation of probable cause.

Back when I did this sort of thing. And my experience sure doesn't mean it's always this way; just pointing out that the entire system isn't exactly some automatic cesspool of judicial farce or tragedy.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,839
6,145
Yakistan
What I wonder is all these new cars with onstar and other gadgets built in, don't they all come stock with gps tracking devices?

Maybe the FBI etc... only need these aftermarket gps trackers for older vehicles
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
What I wonder is all these new cars with onstar and other gadgets built in, don't they all come stock with gps tracking devices?

Maybe the FBI etc... only need these aftermarket gps trackers for older vehicles
If you use Onstar, you are voluntarily telling Onstar where you are. If you have something you wish to keep private, don't tell anyone else.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,839
6,145
Yakistan
Well I was asking if these onstar or similar devices do in fact work as GPS transmitters. I would imagine that in the interests of national security a government agency could activate and monitor these devices without the consent of the vehicle operator. Hell I could see that bugging cars is practically obsolete by now. I mean everyone has a cell phone and with all the new technology being dumped into them the possibilities are endless!
 

denjen

Certified Lift Whore
Sep 16, 2001
1,691
36
Richmond VA
What if he had thrown the tracker away or stuck it to a train to really mess them up? Could he be charged with anything if he had not returned it?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
My experience with judicial and prosecutorial review has been far from a rubber stamp.

I once had a prosecutor insist I Mirandize a subject who *requested* an interview with us in a non-law-enforcement government office, and who didn't know we were law enforcement agents. (Miranda only applies when cops have someone in custody and are performing an interrogation...she was worried since the door closed behind him after he entered the office, it might be construed as "custodial.") Needless to say, wasn't exactly a boon to our case.

Just one example, but I can't recall a time when a judge or prosecutor didn't take a hard look at what I presented. 95% of the time, we got what we asked for, but it was because we presented coherent, well-supported documentation of probable cause.

Back when I did this sort of thing. And my experience sure doesn't mean it's always this way; just pointing out that the entire system isn't exactly some automatic cesspool of judicial farce or tragedy.
Describe the suspect, I'd love to hear more.

Also, the guy should have driven the car down to a very public location (maybe the parking lot an hour before a Giants game?) and then called in a device with wires attached via magnet to the car.

Hilarity ensues...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Describe the suspect, I'd love to hear more.
Illegal alien who stole a US citizen of Mexican descent's identity and brought his whole family into the US based on his false claim to citizenship.