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Spill baby spill

Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,437
20,237
Sleazattle
$tinkle said:
what's the worst damage expected from this? limited O2 exchange from surface cov'g? marshland pollution? prolonged foodchain disruption?
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There are some problems with it contaminating the foodchain in the deep ocean but the shoreland and marshes will be ****ed forever. It's not like the rocky beaches in Alaska, wave action and human intervention can clean that up. I don't think you can't clean marsh and shallows. The marshes and shallows are also a very fervent and diverse habitat that isn't going to handle oil very well. The irony is that ancient marshes are where the oil came from. Sorry, the oil was put there by god on the seventh day.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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Just got a text from my friend in Grand Isle:

"Gonna fill my freezer with seafood"
 
X3pilot

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
$tinkle said:
what's the worst damage expected from this? limited O2 exchange from surface cov'g? marshland pollution? prolonged foodchain disruption?
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Can only speak from a perspective of having lived there for a while, not a scientific point but the oil will kill off native marsh grass, which will lead to a greater salt water intrusion, killing off more grasses. More sunlight and salt will kill off brackish type water living fish and animals. Marshes die. They are a protective barrier for hurricanes (that the oil exploration chewed up in the 70s). Next Katrina will be waaay worse.

Food chain die off will result in a net loss effect for the fishing industry there (oyster, shrimp, redfish, etc). The local fishing industry was already reeling from the effects of Katrina and Ike, as well as a continued march towards sustainable farm fishing (shrimp from foreign countries as example). This has the domino effect on that area industry. Now, nobody cares that much for the stupid, Wal Mart typical shrimper from the bayou, but the tourist industry hit that will effect the Florida panhandle will be enormous. THAT part will get the news coverage.

What I haven't heard mentioned was what effect the moving slick may have on Miss. River shipping traffic. Let that get stopped for a few days and it has an effect on the entire US trade.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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X3pilot said:
Can only speak from a perspective of having lived there for a while, not a scientific point but the oil will kill off native marsh grass, which will lead to a greater salt water intrusion, killing off more grasses. More sunlight and salt will kill off brackish type water living fish and animals. Marshes die. They are a protective barrier for hurricanes (that the oil exploration chewed up in the 70s). Next Katrina will be waaay worse.

Food chain die off will result in a net loss effect for the fishing industry there (oyster, shrimp, redfish, etc). The local fishing industry was already reeling from the effects of Katrina and Ike, as well as a continued march towards sustainable farm fishing (shrimp from foreign countries as example). This has the domino effect on that area industry. Now, nobody cares that much for the stupid, Wal Mart typical shrimper from the bayou, but the tourist industry hit that will effect the Florida panhandle will be enormous. THAT part will get the news coverage.
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Are you freakin kidding?

I have a direct connection to Grand Isle and the Dept of Wildlife and Fisheries. I used to live in N.O. as well.

People there give a big sh*t about the industry.
 
X3pilot

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
sanjuro said:
Are you freakin kidding?

I have a direct connection to Grand Isle and the Dept of Wildlife and Fisheries. I used to live in N.O. as well.

People there give a big sh*t about the industry.
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You're right, I know they do, what I mean is that the nation as whole, who doesn't know what the industry is or who it is or how much it's worth. Just picturing the people thinking of their own stereotypical mental picture of Bubba and Forrest.

What do you think average Joe Merican will care about? Lost wages and damage to an industry or the white sand beaches of the Florida coast gettin' all oiled up?
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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Well, I made lots of redneck jokes to my friend before this incident.

No jokes now....
 
dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
X3pilot said:
You're right, I know they do, what I mean is that the nation as whole, who doesn't know what the industry is or who it is or how much it's worth. Just picturing the people thinking of their own stereotypical mental picture of Bubba and Forrest.

What do you think average Joe Merican will care about? Lost wages and damage to an industry or the white sand beaches of the Florida coast gettin' all oiled up?
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Was picturing this happening a month before Spring Break... THAT would have gotten the nation's attention, millions of drunk, horny, mostly-naked college kids staring at the oil lapping up on the beach.
 
X3pilot

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Well, so much for my theory of lack of news coverage concerning the fishing industry:

Fishermen Sign On to Clean Up Oil

The fishing industry is just now recovering from the hurricanes of recent years, said Billy Nungesser, president of Plaquemines Parish, where Venice is located. But he said the oil spill could be an even greater setback, potentially changing fishing conditions for years.

“This could be six Katrinas, where for years and years and years there’s not as much work,” he said. “These people have fished their entire lives. They don’t know anything else.”
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Hopefully this doesn't turn into another "heckuva job Brownie" moment.
 
X3pilot

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
LOOnatic said:
I have nothing 2 add other than i just went and stocked up on $80 of fresh crawfish, shrimp and blue crab .
Oh and the other 20 on beer:D
Me and the lady will be eating supreme for a few days but sadly this might be the end of the road for oh 10-20 years:confused:
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:cray: The end of my all time favorite meal. 1/2 fried shrimp 1/2 fried oyster po boy, dressed; Zapps Crawtaters chips and Big Shot pineapple soda.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,318
16,776
Riding the baggage carousel.
Toshi said:
He thinks the sheen will "evaporate naturally"? WTF
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4xBoy said:
Oil lobby stuffed his pockets last week.
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Like most Democrtas, Taylor wants to require the federal government to reimburse citizens when environmental regulations limit use of privately owned lands, strengthen the Clean Water Act, increase fees charged to ranchers who graze cattle on federal lands, strengthen emission controls on all gasoline or diesel powered engines, including cars and trucks, among other measures that would help promote a cleaner environment. However, he does not want to increase federal taxes on gasoline and diesel fuels to promote conservation and alternative fuel development or promote the selling of pollution credits to encourage industries to decrease amount of pollution. He has voted for the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act of 2006 that would ban offshore drilling within 50 miles of states, unless states petition the Interior Department to open it (Sec. 8(1)(A) and Sec. 8(3)(A)). But would allow offshore drilling between 50 and 100 miles, unless states petition the Interior Department to extend the moratorium (Sec. 8(1)(B)), and also allow offshore drilling beyond 100 miles at the discretion of the Interior Department. Taylor has followed closely to the interests of the American Wind Energy Association (100 percent of the time in 2006), which "promotes wind energy as a clean source of electricity for consumers around the world." He has also received very high ratings from other conservation interest groups such as Environment America, Defenders of Wild Life Action Fund, and League of Conservation Voters (all three above 70 percent). And interests groups such as American Land Rights Association, who "are dedicated to the wise-use of our resources, access to our Federal lands and the protection of our private property rights," gave Taylor a score of 33.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Gene_Taylor
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Seems like the guys voting record is fairly hippie friendly. I couldn't get the links to his financial contributors to open for some reason. If I can get them I'll post them.

*edit. Found them with teh google. (apparently source watches links were dead)

Coming in 5th by industry for 2009-10:
Oil & Gas $14,000 http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/industries.php?cycle=2010&cid=n00003350&type=I
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$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
just got my hands on an internal NOAA email from about 2 weeks back; worth reading
DEEPWATER HORIZON Incident, Gulf of Mexico

Subject Evening Report, 21 April 2010 2000 hrs
From *********@noaa.gov
Date Apr-21-2010 08:01 PM
Category Situation Reports
ID Incident #8220, Entry #****** Entry is PRIVATE.

The Deepwater Horizon is on fire and continues to burn, and the vessel (a very large semisubmersible) is reported listing roughly 15 degrees and is severely damaged to the point that the stability of the vessel had been questioned.

Firefighting efforts have been scaled back because of a fear that the water applied is actual contributing to the list. The vessel remains on-location only because the riser that connects to the seafloor wellhead is acting as a mooring.

The regional NOAA Scientific Support Coordinator has deployed on-scene to the USCG Command Post at Marine Safety Unit Morgan City. The RP's Command Post has been established at the Crisis Management Center at BP's Houston Office. The Regional Assistant Scientific Support Coordinator will deploy on-scene to that location in the morning. Of the 126 crew reported aboard the Deepwater Horizon, 115 have been accounted for (11 crew members remain missing). USCG SAR operations are continuing, and all hope that they will be found (our thoughts and prayers go out to the families). The effort to save lives is the primary response priority.

There is a wild well release. The volume or rate of the release is unknown, but thought to be significant. The USCG has requested a best guess estimate from the RP (and I would not be surprised if that value is in the 10-20K bbl/day range, the SSC's best guess estimated based only on past experiences). This was a new well that was undergoing a temporary plug and abandonment for future production. Most of the oil is burning at the platform generating 300 to 400 foot flames, intense heat, and black smoke. There was oil pollution reported in the water, and the extent of the slick was largely undelineated. Some reports suggested a slick 2 miles in length (better overflight reporting has been identified as a priority for tomorrow's environmental operations). NOAA has updated the trajectory analysis. Should there be a significant release of oil on water, the trajectory suggests that the Northern GOM coast would be at risk, but it would take more than three days for oil to threaten the shorelines and the weather forecast and oceanographic currents could change. The amount of diesel on the vessel was updated to only 700,000 gallons earlier in the day, and what fraction of this that may have burned is also unknown. The RP has a wide range of on-water pollution response vessel in route or already on-scene including MSRC Response Vessels and CGA HOSS Barge skimming system. Dispersant assets have also been restaged.

The RP is working to attempt a shut in of the well at the seafloor using a ROV to activate the Blowout Prevention System. Two attempts earlier in the even have failed. It is believed that crew members had activated this system before evacuation, but there was no affect either. A third attempt is planned for later in the night. Controlling the source of the release is the most important operation outside of the SAR effort. Should the semisubmersible sink or detach from the riser, it is likely that the fire mitigation would be lost. A major oil spill would be the expected result. Failure to shut in the well using the control system at the seafloor would potentially create a continued release of crude oil until a relief well could be drill (a time period characterized as several weeks). There is a strengthening of winds and sea state predicted by Friday evening. Such weather would put even greater stress of both the vessel and the riser. This third attempt to shut in the well tonight is critical with respect to preventing a major oil spill event.

NOAA has preidentified additional response personnel to support the USCG. If the well is not secured tonight, it is likely that NOAA's on-scene presence will ramp up to be in a better response posture should (or more likely when) the semisubmersible disconnects from the riser or seafloor connection resulting in a, most likely, major oil pollution release. It has been a long day. The situation status will be updated after the morning brief.​
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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My contact tells me shear rams are NOT reducing the flow significantly...

http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com/Display.cfm?Term=shear ram

A blowout preventer (BOP) closing element fitted with hardened tool steel blades designed to cut the drillpipe when the BOP is closed. A shear ram is normally used as a last resort to regain pressure control of a well that is flowing. Once the drillpipe is cut (or sheared) by the shear rams, it is usually left hanging in the BOP stack, and kill operations become more difficult. The joint of drillpipe is destroyed in the process, but the rest of the drillstring is unharmed by the operation of shear rams.
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dante

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
sanjuro said:
My contact tells me shear rams are NOT reducing the flow significantly...

http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com/Display.cfm?Term=shear ram
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Yeah, was just about to note that:

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/bp_official_weve_significantly.html

By Monday afternoon, however, BP had released a statement saying the oil flow remained unchanged.

"BP would like to clarify that, contrary to some media reports, the actions it has taken to date on the blow out preventer have not resulted in any observed reduction in the rate of flow of oil from the MC252 well," the statement said.
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jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,937
24,508
media blackout
Texas Governor Rick Perry blames God...

Speaking at a Washington conference today, Perry was eager to stop any of that tree-hugging talk that would argue a simple huge, gigantic oil-rig disaster should stop anyone from drilling in the Gulf.

Perry said that the accident "could be an act of God," Politico reports, thereby being the first Gulf governor to squarely put the blame where it belongs -- not on the oil industry, but on Yahweh.
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http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/05/rick_perry_god_oil_spill.php
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
"acts of God" gets mention in every ins policy i've held.

did you ever consider that maybe this is attack by perry on the ins lobby, who may have to pay out bazillions?
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
some analysis/commentary/perspective from wsj (quoted in full 'cuz it's subscriber only)
It could be months before we know what caused the explosion and oil spill below the drilling rig Deepwater Horizon. But as we add up the economic costs and environmental damage (and mourn the 11 oil workers who died), we should also put the disaster in some perspective.

Washington is, as usual, showing no such restraint. As the oil in the Gulf of Mexico moves toward the Louisiana and Florida coasts, the left is already demanding that President Obama reverse his baby steps toward more offshore drilling. The Administration has partly obliged, declaring a moratorium pending an investigation. The President has raised the political temperature himself, declaring yesterday that the spill is a "massive and potentially unprecedented environmental disaster."

The harm will be considerable, which is why it is fortunate that such spills are so rare. The most recent spill of this magnitude was the Exxon Valdez tanker accident in 1989. The largest before that was the Santa Barbara offshore oil well leak in 1969.

The infrequency of big spills is extraordinary considering the size of the offshore oil industry that provides Americans with affordable energy. According to the Interior Department's most recent data, in 2002 the Outer Continental Shelf had 4,000 oil and gas facilities, 80,000 workers in offshore and support activities, and 33,000 miles of pipeline. Between 1985 and 2001, these offshore facilities produced seven billion barrels of oil. The spill rate was a minuscule 0.001%.

According to the National Academy of Sciences—which in 2002 completed the third version of its "Oil in the Sea" report—only 1% of oil discharges in North Americas are related to petroleum extraction. Some 62% of oil in U.S. waters is due to natural seepage from the ocean floor, putting 47 million gallons of crude oil into North American water every year. The Gulf leak is estimated to have leaked between two million and three million gallons in two weeks.

Such an accident is still unacceptable, which is why the drilling industry has invested heavily to prevent them. The BP well had a blowout preventer, which contains several mechanisms designed to seal pipes in the event of a problem. These protections have worked in the past, and the reason for the failure this time is unknown. This was no routine safety failure but a surprising first.

One reason the industry has a good track record is precisely because of the financial consequences of accidents. The Exxon Valdez dumped 260,000 barrels of oil, and Exxon spent $3.14 billion on cleanup. Do the math, and Exxon spent nearly 600 times more on cleanup and litigation than what the oil was worth at that time.

As for the environmental damage in the Gulf, much will depend on the weather that has made it more difficult to plug the leak and contain the spill before it reaches shore. The winds could push oil over the emergency containment barriers, or they could keep the oil swirling offshore, where it may sink and thus do less damage.

It is worth noting that this could have been worse. The Exxon Valdez caused so much damage in part because the state of Alaska dithered over an emergency spill response. Congress then passed the 1990 Oil Pollution Act that mandated more safety measures, and it gave the Coast Guard new powers during spill emergencies. We have seen the benefits in the last two weeks as the Coast Guard has deployed several containment techniques—from burning and chemical dispersants to physical barriers. America sometimes learns from its mistakes.

On the other hand, Washington's aversion to drilling closer to shore has pushed the industry into deeper, more difficult, waters farther out to sea. BP's well is 5,000 feet down, at a depth and pressure that test the most advanced engineering and technology. The depth complicates containment efforts when there is a disaster.

As for a drilling moratorium, it is no guarantee against oil spills. It may even lead to more of them. Political fantasies about ending our oil addiction notwithstanding, the U.S. economy will need oil and other fossil fuels for decades to come. If we don't drill for it at home, the oil will have to arrive by tanker and barges. Tankers are responsible for more spills than offshore wells, and those spills tend to be bigger and closer to shore—which usually means more environmental harm.

The larger reality is that energy production is never going to be accident free. No difficult human endeavor is, whether space travel or using giant cranes to build skyscrapers. The rest of the world is working to exploit its offshore oil and gas reserves despite the risk of spills. We need to be mindful of such risks, and to include prevention and clean up in the cost of doing business, but a modern economy can't run without oil.
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Hunter

Hunter

Monkey
Sep 14, 2006
793
0
The Right coast
BP Vows to Pay For Cleanup of Massive Oil Spill
The company behind the massive oil spill threatening the economy and environment along the Gulf Coast has vowed to pay all "necessary and appropriate" clean-up costs.
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Let me just give a big, social "F$@k You" to BP. How kind of you to offer to pay for this amazing disaster. Asshats, you'll pay for that crap, hopefully some bigs fines by the EPA, and in hell.
...could allow at least another million gallons to spill into the Gulf, on top of the roughly 2.6 million or more that has spilled since the April 20 blast. Those numbers are based on the Coast Guard's estimates that 200,000 gallons a day are spilling out, though officials have cautioned it's impossible to know exactly how much is leaking.
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Still leaking.

Dartman said:
Nothing to worry about here folks, move along now...http://www.sunherald.com/2010/05/01/2146383/taylor-expects-spill-to-break.html#storylink=omni_popular
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Now that's some sh^t.
He described the spill as a light, rainbow sheen with patches that look like chocolate milk.
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This guy is covered in oil money. Shiny green oil money that looks like emeralds and smells like fresh cut grass.

Quality pictures here - http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/oil_spill_approaches_louisiana.html
 
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