[dante]

Rand Paul is apparently upset with any criticism of BP, and thinks that it's unAmerican to hold major companies responsible for the mess they cause.

This guy just keeps firing on all cylinders...

 

[$tinkle]

criticism of british petrol is un-american...

ok....

 

[3D.]

hey but don't forget:
"I have comprehensive plan to chart a new energy future by embracing alternative and renewable energy. America can be the 21st century clean energy leader" Barack Obama

"FEMA and Corps of Engineers employees are upset that the White House and the Pentagon remain tight-lipped and in cover-up mode about the images of the massive and fast-moving frozen coagulated oil blob that is being imaged by Navy submarines that are tracking its movement. "

"Corps of Engineers and FEMA officials are also livid about the cover-up of the extent of the oil damage being promulgated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and its marine research vessel in the Gulf, RV Pelican. NOAA stands accused by the aforementioned agencies of acting as a virtual public relations arm for BP. NOAA is a component of the business-oriented Department of Commerce."

"There is also evidence that BP, Halliburton, and Transocean sank a drill to a depth of 35,000 feet at the Deep Horizon site some six months ago without the required permits from the federal government. WMR has learned from U.S. government sources that the drilling at 35,000 feet caused a major catastrophic event that required the firms' oil rig personnel to quickly pull up the drill and close the drill hole. However, the Deep Horizon re-sank the drill some six months after the unspecified "catastrophe," resulting in another, more destructive chain of events following the explosion that destroyed the rig, killing eleven workers. When the Deep Horizon blew up, WMR has been told it also "blew down," cracking the the sub-seabed pipe that may have been re-drilled to a depth of between 25,000 to 30,000 feet, again, without a government permit."

http://oilprice.com/Environment/Oil-Spills/White-House-Covers-Up-Menacing-Oil-Blob.html

 

[jonKranked]

"Sometimes I just don't get Sarah Palin. She sleeps with a guy who worked for BP
for eighteen years but accuses Obama of being in bed with big oil. Go
figure."

 

[LOOnatic]

hey but don't forget:
"I have comprehensive plan to chart a new energy future by embracing alternative and renewable energy. America can be the 21st century clean energy leader" Barack Obama





http://oilprice.com/Environment/Oil-Spills/White-House-Covers-Up-Menacing-Oil-Blob.html

Dude, your smoking some good sh1t up there in Truckee.
1st off , you can thank the republicans for killing and watering down environmental regs that may have helped avoid this disaster. they have been very adept at doing this over the last couple decades.
2nd, would you be blaming McCain if this happened on his watch???
3rd, are you so politically polarized that every event you see somehow MUST be the othersides fault?
For example, even though i live in NewOrleans and went through Katrina, i didn't blame Bush for the levees failing . Do you see what i mean? Your choosing to believe something but the facts don't support it.
4th, send me some of what your smoking cuz i could use a timeout.
Thanks, LOOnatic

 

[Pesqueeb]

Do you see what i mean? Your choosing to believe something but the facts don't support it. 4th, send me some of what your smoking cuz i could use a timeout.
Thanks, LOOnatic

The guys a birther, beliving something without, or in spite of, facts is kind of his milieu. And have you ever been to Truckee? Granted its been probably thirteen years since I was there last, but unless things have improved dramticaly, not really a lot going on up there in the Sierra foothills.

 

[ohio]

And have you ever been to Truckee? ... not really a lot going on up there in the Sierra foothills.

Yeah, definitely no skiing, hiking, climbing, mountain biking, hunting, fishing, kite-boarding, drinking, dancing, dirt biking, road biking, or anything else much going on.

 

[LOOnatic]

Yeah i was at Northstar riding a few seasons back. Charming old mining town so i'm not knocking him geographically, just his inability to reason in lieu of pesky facts. They can be a real buzzkill...

 

[Pesqueeb]

Yeah, definitely no skiing, hiking, climbing, mountain biking, hunting, fishing, kite-boarding, drinking, dancing, dirt biking, road biking, or anything else much going on.

Well sure. But dude, I grew up in the foothills of the Sierra, their is something about being there over a certain amount of time that makes people a little I knew lots of lifers that were fully vested in all kinds of loony conspiracy stuff. IE 55 gallon drums of diesel, shipping containers full of guns and MRE's buried in the back 40, U.N. detention camp fearing yokels. But the rafting and fishing was nice.

 

[$tinkle]

1st off , you can thank the republicans for killing and watering down environmental regs that may have helped avoid this disaster.

uhh...if republicans had their way, i believe drilling would occur in the easiest parts, not being shoved out to sea by pesky on-shore regs.

this disaster would've been unnoticed had a well ruptured in anwr, as it would've been capped post haste

 

[kidwoo]

Well sure. But dude, I grew up in the foothills of the Sierra, their is something about being there over a certain amount of time that makes people a little I knew lots of lifers that were fully vested in all kinds of loony conspiracy stuff. IE 55 gallon drums of diesel, shipping containers full of guns and MRE's buried in the back 40, U.N. detention camp fearing yokels. But the rafting and fishing was nice.

You're talking about the methbelt. Exists about 2,000-4,000 feet of elevation in any region.


Truckee is about as 'foothill' as breckenridge.

 

[dante]

uhh...if republicans had their way, i believe drilling would occur in the easiest parts, not being shoved out to sea by pesky on-shore regs.

this disaster would've been unnoticed had a well ruptured in anwr, as it would've been capped post haste

What kind of GOPper are you?? It's not an either/or question, it's BOTH! It's drilling in ANWR, it's drilling right offshore in shallow water, it's drilling way offshore in deepwater, it's DRILL BABY DRILL, AND DRILL NOW!!

 

[kidwoo]

uhh...if republicans had their way, i believe drilling would occur in the easiest parts, not being shoved out to sea by pesky on-shore regs.

this disaster would've been unnoticed had a well ruptured in anwr, as it would've been capped post haste

I just heard your arm pop out of socket on that reach.

 

[$tinkle]

I just heard your arm pop out of socket on that reach.

no reach at all

- it's right of center (both fiscally & environmentally) who believe on-shore holds vastly more benefit than risk
- it's easier to treat a disaster on shore than off (using robots in harsher than on-shore conditions)
- it's an extension of manifest destiny to drill on fed'l land


so if we have a spill, the price of caribou jerky goes up 30%; big whoop

 

[rockofullr]

- it's an extension of manifest destiny to drill on fed'l land

Really, manifest destiny?

Did we time travel to 1939 and no one told me?

 

[$tinkle]

Really, manifest destiny?

Did we time travel to 1939 and no one told me?

freedom™ runs on oil

 

[kidwoo]

no reach at all

- it's right of center (both fiscally & environmentally) who believe on-shore holds vastly more benefit than risk
- it's easier to treat a disaster on shore than off (using robots in harsher than on-shore conditions)
- it's an extension of manifest destiny to drill on fed'l land


so if we have a spill, the price of caribou jerky goes up 30%; big whoop

Yeah actually it's a big reach. You're saying that if drilling on land occurs, drilling offshore, deeply, does not. The risk/benefits you state are obvious. In many, maybe even most cases, you're right.

But money is money and sooner or later they're going for it. You can bet that if it were deemed cheaper or even equivalent, there would be a shltstorm of resources poured into getting on land projects in lieu of offshore ones. And they would get it. But they're not mutually exclusive by any means. If not 'reach' then I'll use the term fallacy.

 

[dante]

Yeah actually it's a big reach. You're saying that if drilling on land occurs, drilling offshore, deeply, does not. The risk/benefits you state are obvious. In many, maybe even most cases, you're right.

But money is money and sooner or later they're going for it. You can bet that if it were deemed cheaper or even equivalent, there would be a shltstorm of resources poured into getting on land projects in lieu of offshore ones. And they would get it. But they're not mutually exclusive by any means. If not 'reach' then I'll use the term fallacy.

Sooner or later? There is absolutely no reason *not* to go for something if they can make money on it. Just imagine that the costs/barrel of extracting oil fall somewhere along these lines (totally made-up number):

On land: $20
Close to shore: $40
Deep water: $60
Oil shale: $100

What they develop is determined by where they think the price of oil is going to go. If oil was pegged to be about $50, they'd push to develop on land (ANWR) and shallow-water drilling. If oil was assumed to reach $80 in the near future, they'd push to develop on land, close to shore, and deep water. It doesn't matter that they're able to drill in certain areas on land, because as long as the price of oil remained above the profitability break-even point, they should push to drill offshore as well. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if they found so much oil on land that it pushed the price of oil down below where it was profitable for them to drill offshore. I *highly* doubt that would be the case.

 

[kidwoo]

I love it when you argue with me to say the same thing




Hey stinky: here's one for you......


Blame BP for not investing the resources into cheap solar fueled cells and then making a killing on their new proprietary technology. If we're going to start pulling reasons to blame random groups out of our asses, I want to play too.

 

[jonKranked]

Blame BP for not investing the resources into cheap solar fueled cells and then making a killing on their new proprietary technology. If we're going to start pulling reasons to blame random groups out of our asses, I want to play too.

this one kills me too.


but the tinfoil in me says they've already developed it, but are keeping it as their ace in the hole for when the oil dries up

 

[$tinkle]

Yeah actually it's a big reach. You're saying that if drilling on land occurs, drilling offshore, deeply, does not.

no, it means this current event would not have taken place now, if ever, for drilling would have been deferred, if not avoided (due to newly developed technology rendering deep shore drilling prohibitive when compared to on-shore). there are no constants w/ technology, unless you point to individual segments in step functions.

You can bet that if it were deemed cheaper or even equivalent, there would be a shltstorm of resources poured into getting on land projects in lieu of offshore ones.

my understanding is drilling in desired fed'l lands (specifically anwr) is prohibited, not cost prohibitive

What they develop is determined by where they think the price of oil is going to go. If oil was pegged to be about $50, they'd push to develop on land (ANWR) and shallow-water drilling. If oil was assumed to reach $80 in the near future, they'd push to develop on land, close to shore, and deep water.

i don't believe the oil lobby has a self-imposed embargo on pursuing allowances for anything. like any good 'merican business, it's absolutely about the all might dollar. wildlife be damned as long as it still yields a significant profit w/o damaging long-term bottom line.

Blame BP for not investing the resources into cheap solar fueled cells and then making a killing on their new proprietary technology

are they not? i don't know, but i can't imagine their greedy - excuse me - enterprising - little minds would acknowledge a buck to be made & walk away from it. especially if someone else can scoop 'em in perpetuity.

i'm not making political arguments, just business ones (that happen to be turned into political ones, apparently)

 

[kidwoo]

no, it means this current event would not have taken place now, if ever, for drilling would have been deferred, if not avoided (due to newly developed technology rendering deep shore drilling prohibitive when compared to on-shore).

I fully understand your point. But we're both arguing our own assumptions. I admit that. I'm going to need a little more concrete to believe and hold hand with you on your leap. Hippies didn't cause a fvcking oil spill that was a direct result of incompetence.

my understanding is drilling in desired fed'l lands (specifically anwr) is prohibited, not cost prohibitive

Everything is for sale. You ever see the oil rig towers in canyonlands nat'l park? This offshore site was years in development.......predating possibly even anwar's rise to fame. If they wanted it, they'd more than likely get it. Even as a 'second best' option, this must have been a pretty good one. But again...that's a bit of defeatist opinion of mine.

like any good 'merican business, it's absolutely about the all might dollar. wildlife be damned as long as it still yields a significant profit w/o damaging long-term bottom line.are they not? i don't know, but i can't imagine their greedy - excuse me - enterprising - little minds would acknowledge a buck to be made & walk away from it. especially if someone else can scoop 'em in perpetuity.

The problem it seems to me is that our commie socialist government bends over backwards to ignore its own proclamations with regards to permits, regulations and such. They do this particularly for very well established industries known to be profitable. Oil: yes, new industries: not so much. So where the money lies in cost/benefit projects of a certain nature, is not always apparent. I encountered this with research grants in college. Money for a better catalytic converter? Sure! Money for non-petroleum fuel research........not so much.

 

[Pesqueeb]

The problem it seems to me is that our commie socialist government bends over backwards to ignore its own proclamations with regards to permits, regulations and such. They do this particularly for very well established industries known to be profitable.

Don't forget large wall street investment banks.

 

[Toshi]

http://wonkette.com/415622/deepwater-horizon-kept-oil-rig-survivors-detained-until-they-signed-legal-documents

The workers who survived the awful explosion of the Deepwater Horizon/BP oil rig weren’t simply taken back to shore after their harrowing escape and rescue — instead, according to lawyers for the survivors and interviews with The Guardian, they were detained for up to 40 hours at sea, unable to even call their families until they had signed legal documents absolving Deepwater Horizon.

Lawyers say the isolation was deliberate and that Transocean was trying to wear the men down so they would sign statements denying that they had been hurt or that they had witnessed the explosion that destroyed the rig.

The White House just announced that Barack Obama is going to the Gulf on Friday to, who knows, yell at BP. [Guardian/Yahoo News via Cryptogon]

 

[$tinkle]

anybody else watch this 9 days ago?

Extended Interview: Deepwater Horizon Survivor - 60 Minutes - CBS News

 

[jonKranked]

 

[$tinkle]

since it's so close to gitmo, can't we just collect the korans & clog it?

 

[LOOnatic]

If i see Tony "full of bologney" Hayward in town i will punch him in the face.
Full on Rick James b1tch.
Ya'll can bail me out after. Send DirtyMcGirk if need be.

 

[narlus]

since it's so close to gitmo, can't we just collect the korans & clog it?

 

[reflux]

http://wonkette.com/415622/deepwater-horizon-kept-oil-rig-survivors-detained-until-they-signed-legal-documents

Legal documents are not binding if one of the signors was under undue stress or was not in proper capacity to understand exactly what they were signing.

Surviving a deadly explosion and being held "captive" may fit within those circumstances. It would be interesting to see if each employee was released the moment they signed the document.

 

[rockofullr]

He described the spill as a light, rainbow sheen with patches that look like chocolate milk.

“At the moment, it’s not as bad as I thought it would be,” he said, shortly after returning from the three-hour tour.

Thanks Gilligan. If it looks like chocolate milk we should be fine!

 

[$tinkle]

<youtube>chocolate rain</youtube>

 

[3D.]

Dude, your smoking some good sh1t up there in Truckee.
1st off , you can thank the republicans for killing and watering down environmental regs that may have helped avoid this disaster. they have been very adept at doing this over the last couple decades.
2nd, would you be blaming McCain if this happened on his watch???
3rd, are you so politically polarized that every event you see somehow MUST be the othersides fault?
For example, even though i live in NewOrleans and went through Katrina, i didn't blame Bush for the levees failing . Do you see what i mean? Your choosing to believe something but the facts don't support it.
4th, send me some of what your smoking cuz i could use a timeout.
Thanks, LOOnatic

^^ Neat the way you tried to generalize my political nature into a 1st, 2nd, 3rd short list.. guys like you are a good laugh when you&#8217;re trying to articulate your way through issues that are far too complex for your own capacity. I&#8217;ve voted third party for the past three elections jackass, but that&#8217;s a completely different topic.

The fact is, bp and this administration could be doing more, a lot more. While you stay glued to a live blow-out video feed waiting for it to stop or slow down (which could take months or longer) small tankers, tug operated barges, or just about anything that floats and holds fluid could be receiving siphoned surface, as well as subsurface oil/water mixture from the gulf. (vinaigrette, as another smartass so cutely copy/pasted it) They could then transport this crap mix to centrifuge machines for separation and actually reclaim the separated products, cleaning the captured spoils to a levels as high as 97%. But instead they allow the environmental devastation that is just beginning to take place on the neighboring states and wild life areas.

Why not, right? We don&#8217;t see this taking place because of two main factors; you want a short list loonatic? then here:
1st- the price tag
2nd- the restraining system of greed and corruption of which our government and these companies manipulate daily
3rd- dim witted masses like yourself

Instead of taking a larger financial hit, we listen to them regurgitate the same &#8220;they're doing everything possible&#8221; bullsh!t everyday from the ms media and the white house as well. No, actually the white house has taken it one step lower by stating that if they removed bp from the clean up process, &#8220;who or what would we replace them with&#8221;? How about a couple hundred small tankers and large pump systems for starters you fuking scum bags. It&#8217;s deplorable and how a person cannot see it as that, is totally beyond me.

And the way they are going about the top kill procedure is like some sort joke! If you really wanted to get the job done, how about sinking a 6&#8221;-10&#8221; high pressure pipe line with an expandable plug tip directly into the well head, sink it in there to a few hundred feet or more before expanding the tip. Use water for the high pressure expansion aspect (to make it safe), cap the other end of the pressure line just above the well head or use a quick release tip that would forever bury the plug, and stop the gusher with in minutes. Then, while it is temporarily dormant, backfill the three hundred feet or more of depressurized well casing with concrete up to the well head level. Kind of simple really, anyone with any kind of mechanical or engineering background can grasp this. Dumping slurry mix and concrete into a gushing underwater high pressure well head, like they are doing, is a stupid mistake which could make this catastrophe much worse and at best, is only a cheap risky band aid for them while they drill relief wells to their goods. But, hey when your above the law and worried about your bottom line, you don&#8217;t do what&#8217;s right, but fvck with mother nature enough and she becomes a real bitch..

Loonatic, I suggest that you stop shooting spit balls across the congressional isle, remove your head from your ass, and start paying attention to what is developing in the world around you. You know.. those pesky facts you preach of. Unfortunately for you, the times that are currently upon us will demand critical thinking as well as the ability to think for yourself. You sir, should probably get started in these practices.

Pesqueeb, because you know me and my area so well, you&#8217;re right&#8230; truckee and the Tahoe national forest are the dumps, please stay away forever. Meanwhile, I&#8217;ll accomplish more physical activity and celebration of life in one day, than you will in a month. And that would be considering you got lucky and went on your 10 day vacation for the year.

 

[jonKranked]

^^ Neat the way you tried to generalize my political nature into a 1st, 2nd, 3rd short list.. guys like you are a good laugh when you&#8217;re trying to articulate your way through issues that are far too complex for your own capacity. I&#8217;ve voted third party for the past three elections jackass, but that&#8217;s a completely different topic.

The fact is, bp and this administration could be doing more, a lot more. While you stay glued to a live blow-out video feed waiting for it to stop or slow down (which could take months or longer) small tankers, tug operated barges, or just about anything that floats and holds fluid could be receiving siphoned surface, as well as subsurface oil/water mixture from the gulf. (vinaigrette, as another smartass so cutely copy/pasted it) They could then transport this crap mix to centrifuge machines for separation and actually reclaim the separated products, cleaning the captured spoils to a levels as high as 97%. But instead they allow the environmental devastation that is just beginning to take place on the neighboring states and wild life areas.

Why not, right? We don&#8217;t see this taking place because of two main factors; you want a short list loonatic? then here:
1st- the price tag
2nd- the restraining system of greed and corruption of which our government and these companies manipulate daily
3rd- dim witted masses like yourself

Instead of taking a larger financial hit, we listen to them regurgitate the same &#8220;they're doing everything possible&#8221; bullsh!t everyday from the ms media and the white house as well. No, actually the white house has taken it one step lower by stating that if they removed bp from the clean up process, &#8220;who or what would we replace them with&#8221;? How about a couple hundred small tankers and large pump systems for starters you fuking scum bags. It&#8217;s deplorable and how a person cannot see it as that, is totally beyond me.

And the way they are going about the top kill procedure is like some sort joke! If you really wanted to get the job done, how about sinking a 6&#8221;-10&#8221; high pressure pipe line with an expandable plug tip directly into the well head, sink it in there to a few hundred feet or more before expanding the tip. Use water for the high pressure expansion aspect (to make it safe), cap the other end of the pressure line just above the well head or use a quick release tip that would forever bury the plug, and stop the gusher with in minutes. Then, while it is temporarily dormant, backfill the three hundred feet or more of depressurized well casing with concrete up to the well head level. Kind of simple really, anyone with any kind of mechanical or engineering background can grasp this. Dumping slurry mix and concrete into a gushing underwater high pressure well head, like they are doing, is a stupid mistake which could make this catastrophe much worse and at best, is only a cheap risky band aid for them while they drill relief wells to their goods. But, hey when your above the law and worried about your bottom line, you don&#8217;t do what&#8217;s right, but fvck with mother nature enough and she becomes a real bitch..

Loonatic, I suggest that you stop shooting spit balls across the congressional isle, remove your head from your ass, and start paying attention to what is developing in the world around you. You know.. those pesky facts you preach of. Unfortunately for you, the times that are currently upon us will demand critical thinking as well as the ability to think for yourself. You sir, should probably get started in these practices.

Pesqueeb, because you know me and my area so well, you&#8217;re right&#8230; truckee and the Tahoe national forest are the dumps, please stay away forever. Meanwhile, I&#8217;ll accomplish more physical activity and celebration of life in one day, than you will in a month. And that would be considering you got lucky and went on your 10 day vacation for the year.

(warning: NSFW language)

http://derpbrap.com/img/readallthat.jpg

 

[kidwoo]

And the way they are going about the top kill procedure is like some sort joke! If you really wanted to get the job done, how about sinking a 6”-10” high pressure pipe line with an expandable plug tip directly into the well head, sink it in there to a few hundred feet or more before expanding the tip. Use water for the high pressure expansion aspect (to make it safe), cap the other end of the pressure line just above the well head or use a quick release tip that would forever bury the plug, and stop the gusher with in minutes. Then, while it is temporarily dormant, backfill the three hundred feet or more of depressurized well casing with concrete up to the well head level. Kind of simple really, anyone with any kind of mechanical or engineering background can grasp this.

That by itself would create the largest sea surface roman candle known to man from what I can tell. There's a lot more than oil coming out of the hole. There still needs to be a gas suppression system that's a lot more complicated than a pipe. 5k under sea -> sea level is like two different solar systems of pressure. I'm also not sure how feasible it is to work a pipe end into that rupture at that depth. It's not a round hole facing upwards.

I'm not defending BP or the gubbamint in this case, they're definitely both flailing. But it's more than a little snorkel trip with some equipment.

Either way, the lack of contingency infrastructure is sickening. This kind of shlt should not even be permitted without reliable safeguards. And if those safeguards don't exist.........neither should the project.

 

[3D.]

the system for ballooning the tip with a high pressure supply already exists, i'm not just ranting about what ifs... the top kill system they are using (dumping slurry mud into a pressurized hole) does nothing to address gas pressure relief or maintenance, it is the most rudimental method they could use. but it's cheap and you get what you vote for...

still, furthermore, there is NO excuse whatsoever for the lack of containment and seperation that could have been vigorously from the first day.

like i've said before, you guys can live like the brow beaten wife who sweares "that he still loves me", or you can wake up and realize you're being rooked
on a daily basis.

don't be fooled by these con-men who have the coastgaurd, fema, and the white house stuffed neatly in their back pocket.

 

[3D.]

(warning: NSFW language)

http://derpbrap.com/img/readallthat.jpg

maybe you should have read it??

 

[Pesqueeb]

Loonatic, I suggest that you stop shooting spit balls across the congressional isle, remove your head from your ass, and start paying attention to what is developing in the world around you. You know.. those pesky facts you preach of. Unfortunately for you, the times that are currently upon us will demand critical thinking as well as the ability to think for yourself. You sir, should probably get started in these practices.

Says the birther.

Pesqueeb, because you know me and my area so well, you&#8217;re right&#8230; truckee and the Tahoe national forest are the dumps, please stay away forever. Meanwhile, I&#8217;ll accomplish more physical activity and celebration of life in one day, than you will in a month. And that would be considering you got lucky and went on your 10 day vacation for the year.

Well, you've got me pegged. If only I had access to that sort of stellar out door recreational world here in Colorado. I could be as clearly happy and jovial as you are.

still, furthermore, there is NO excuse whatsoever for the lack of containment and seperation that could have been vigorously from the first day.

This is the first thing you've said that make sense, and I agree. Statistically it was bound to happen though I suppose.

 

[jonKranked]

maybe you should have read it??

 

[kidwoo]

like i've said before, you guys can live like the brow beaten wife who sweares "that he still loves me", or you can wake up and realize you're being rooked
on a daily basis.

You know me.....always with the optimistic faith in other people.








seriously?