[Jm_]

I'm suprised no one has asked about this.

I set up a bike with this a few weeks back.

It is an internally geared hub (3-spd) combined with a normal cassette hub. Basically the internally geared hub takes the place of a front derailer and front rings. So you can have 24-27 gears with a single ring up front. Seems like it would make sense for bikes like the banshee and V-tach types.

The best part is that there is a disc-version.

Retail should be about $270-280 for the hub.

So is anyone using this? I'd have expected to see some questions about it occassionally, but perhaps no one knows about it?

 

[Jm_]

SRAM Dual Drive Internally Geared Hubs


Accepts 8 or 9-speed Shimano-compatible cassettes
Nutted axle
Shifter and other drivetrain parts sold separately
Not for tandem bicycles

Color: Blue
Weight:
Intended Use:
Hub Drilling: 32 spokes
Hub Spacing: 135 mm
Cassette Body Type:
Hub/Brake Compatibility:

Invoice Description: SRAM DualDrive Discbrake freehub 32H *no clickbox
Manufacturer Part Number: 60.0300.121.000
Country of Origin: GER
UPC: 710845170324

 

[chicodude]

I had never heard of it, Sounds like an interesting idea though...........

 

[Jm_]

I had never heard of it, Sounds like an interesting idea though...........

If you really wanted to confuse someone, you could set it up with 81 gears with a 3-ring setup up front

 

[mack]

Ive built em up on cruiser bikes, there very cool. And super easy to use and set up, as most of you know what a pain in the ass a front deralur can be some times. My only complaint is that they sometimes click, and this makes picky customers upset.

 

[punkassean]

Haven't they had some form of this for almost a decade now? I remember it from back in the day...

Cool concept but hows the maintenance???

 

[trailhacker]

I remember the Sach's internal hub from back in the day ('96-97). Is this a updated version of that hub?
I always wondered why it died out, it seemed like it had a lot of potential but seemed to get lost with the disc brake "revolution".

 

[mack]

maitnance free and bascilly disposable, we had one that clicked slighty and drove our OCD customer crazy so we ordered a new one for 20 bucks or somthing and told him to leave us alone.

 

[Jm_]

Haven't they had some form of this for almost a decade now? I remember it from back in the day...

Cool concept but hows the maintenance???

Maint on internally geared hubs is a bitch. Once you get familier with the internals, it's not so bad, but if you are delving into it all of a sudden, it can be overwhelming. Usually you put some of that Phils Tenacious oil in there.

These things do not cost $20 bucks, mack may be thinking of a different hub. These are NOT sram-3spd internally geared hubs, these are sram 3-spd hubs WITH cassette interfaces and disc brake mounts. I don't know if the internals are the same (for the price I'd hope not), but they don't sound like the same thing.

 

[Rik]

If you really wanted to confuse someone, you could set it up with 81 gears with a 3-ring setup up front

Was there not also a company that had a 3spd drive setup built in to the bottom bracket as well? I seem to remember such a thing, it required proprietry cranks as well (obviously), now, did that have a triple ring? If so... things could get a bit silly

 

[OGRipper]

If you really wanted to confuse someone, you could set it up with 81 gears with a 3-ring setup up front

That would be straight from the Department of Redundancy Department.

 

[mack]

wait yeah i know the hub. We got a new 3 sp hub w/o cassete for some lady cus it broke, or somthing that comes on the beach cruiser. Sry, these come on our Raleigh SC200's or some high end cruiser deal. I dont know how to work on them

But they are nifty, we had allot of old people who liked them allot.

 

[kidwoo]

So quit yapping and buy one and then let us know how it works. I have to be a little skeptical though, kind of shimano nexus target market. I found it mentioned only in the comfort bike section on the website. Then again so are my dirtjump tires on the kenda website.

 

[Westy]

If the gears were spaced far enough I would be happy with a single er three speed bike.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

accually i though about using one of those hubs on a fr bike about 3 years about. but i was concerned with the durability so i called up sram and asked. they had a quick answer and it was NO. they said the hub was not even close to the strenght needed for DH and FR. i agree the hub is a geart idea and i gets rid of the der i hate even more.

they also told me that they had no intentions on making that hub any beefier.

its a geart idea but need seriuos work

 

[DHS]

accually i though about using one of those hubs on a fr bike about 3 years about. but i was concerned with the durability so i called up sram and asked. they had a quick answer and it was NO. they said the hub was not even close to the strenght needed for DH and FR. i agree the hub is a geart idea and i gets rid of the der i hate even more.

they also told me that they had no intentions on making that hub any beefier.

its a geart idea but need seriuos work

yup i did the same thing 2years ago, when i decided my Rolhoff was FREAKIN heavy. that was a big NO aswell from SRAM

 

[meatboot]

Was there not also a company that had a 3spd drive setup built in to the bottom bracket as well? I seem to remember such a thing, it required proprietry cranks as well (obviously), now, did that have a triple ring? If so... things could get a bit silly

Maybe you're thinking of this but it's only 2 speed. You can run it with any crank, as long as it's square taper.

I used to work at a recumbent-centric shop where schlumpf, 3 speed hub, 9 speed cassette was a pretty common set up.

One fat dude ran on on his single (two?) speed and it seemed to work okay. But then again dude was a liar. Even if it was up to the stress, the ankle shifter button seems somewhat vulnerable in a DH situation. I've got a set of square taper North Shores laying around maybe I'll try it.

 

[MikeD]

I don't get it...if you're going through the expense to have an internally geared hub, why mate it with the very derailleur system you're trying to escape? Seems like it'd have the weaknesses of both without really capitalizing on the strengths of either. Plus, now you've got the cost and weight of a cassette to add in, and replace as well...

MD

 

[Jm_]

I don't get it...if you're going through the expense to have an internally geared hub, why mate it with the very derailleur system you're trying to escape? Seems like it'd have the weaknesses of both without really capitalizing on the strengths of either. Plus, now you've got the cost and weight of a cassette to add in, and replace as well...

MD

Well, perhaps you should re-read my post. I wasn't talking about it in the sense that it was trying to escape a rear derailer. A derailer is an integral part of this system. I said that it allows 24-27 gears without 3 rings up front. That's quite different.

Front derailers don't work terribly well anyhow, it's a weak point in drivetrains. It would be nice if we could make rear derailers go away too, but at least with 3 internal gears you could have the same range on a heavy-fr/dh bike as you do on your XC bike.

As far as durability...well the thing comes on some full-suspension comfort bikes, and if it's made anything like other internally geared hubs I work on, it would take a nuclear blast to create any "trouble" in the system, and this is only 3 years, not like we are talking about some super-complex 14 gear system. It's meant to take disc brakes, so it can deal with disc forces, and some of these suspension-comfort bikes like the giant revive are around 50-60lbs, and add a 300lb rider....I have to wonder about these durability concerns. No one has tried it, so it's really up in the air. I have to wonder if these companies are just saying "no" emphatically because they don't want to loose sales of other parts and that they want to "direct" their sales to the parts and components that they feel are what we should buy, to further their business.

It would be neat if someone tried it, with the kind of bike I was initially specifying.

 

[Sir_Crackien]

when i talked to sram they where not worried about losing any sales. they said that the axle and the gear mech. was not up to the task. one thing to remember is that when you land from a drop there is a moment when the stresses on thing are incredible. one other thing to remember is that the are fitting the 3 gear inside the hub in about 1/3 or less the space on a nomral internal gear hub.

just to let you now at one point in time i was a test pilot for sram. i have an inside source for my info.

 

[kidwoo]

just to let you now at one point in time i was a test pilot for sram. i have an inside source for my info.

Sweet. Go test it on a 7 inch travel bike..........and know for certain!!!

Seriously.

 

[Enduro]

They should make the Rohloff hub like that. That way you could achieve 14 x 9 x 3 = 378 gears!

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Ok so if you ran the 3 X 9 setup via the cassette and hub, you would still have to run a chainguide correct? Seems kind of annoying...i dunno

 

[kidwoo]

Ok so if you ran the 3 X 9 setup via the cassette and hub, you would still have to run a chainguide correct? Seems kind of annoying...i dunno

Yeah but that's still better than a front derailleur. Imagine your DH setup but with the gearing range of an XC bike. I would love to have something like that on my bikes that have front derailleurs on them now.

 

[Enginerd A2]

Doesn't the dual drive have a big plastic box hanging off the axle on the drive side? Did they do away with that? I always thought that would be the weak point. I'd be interested in trying one of these if I ever get another geared drivetrain. I wonder if I could shift the internal 3 gears with the X-9 shifter set in the closet. Can someone post a picture of this thing? I would, but I have to get in the shower.

 

[meatboot]

The Schlumpf comes with a plastic lever called a shift-assist or something that extends the length of the crank. It attaches to the button that projects from the crank, in case you lack the coordination to shift with the button, which is about the size of a crank bolt and stick son 3-4 mm. I never had a problem shifting just the button with the inside of my heel, but I never rode one off-road.

Edit:I can't read. I have no idea is sram did away with it, but all the internal hubs I've ever scene have something sticking out somewhere which is almost as vulnerable as a derailuer.

 

[Zark]

A re-iteration of the old Sachs 3X7 hub. SRAM told me 34 tooth front ring max and not up to the task that I was intending. My friend Brian had one for a while and it worked ok for a while...boom

 

[Enginerd A2]

Zark - How big is your friend Brian? Did he even attempt to warranty the hub? I know, not kosher, but I would have tried. I guess the price is a little steep for questionable reliability and most likely no warranty. If it were more like $150, I'd consider it. I love these alternative drivetrain discussions, but it seems like the Rohloff is the only viable alternative and I don't have a buyer for my kidney yet.

 

[Zark]

Zark - How big is your friend Brian? Did he even attempt to warranty the hub? I know, not kosher, but I would have tried. I guess the price is a little steep for questionable reliability and most likely no warranty. If it were more like $150, I'd consider it. I love these alternative drivetrain discussions, but it seems like the Rohloff is the only viable alternative and I don't have a buyer for my kidney yet.

Brian (Moore) is now either an expert or semi-pro. He's like 6' and 180 and rides aggresively to put it mildly. The bike he had it on was kind of a pile San Andreas back in the day. He never tried for warranty since Sachs was bought by SRAM and it was already stated it was made for that usage.

I know I thought of this setup as a great solution when 2 ring guides didn't exist, but now its kinda useless for the hardcore set for so many reasons (weight, cost, reliability)

 

[punkassean]

Noah,

You still alive down there? I was just talking to Adrian and he pointed me to the pics of La Conchita / 101 on kjee.com WOW! It's outta hand down there right now!

 

[Zark]

Noah,

You still alive down there? I was just talking to Adrian and he pointed me to the pics of La Conchita / 101 on kjee.com WOW! It's outta hand down there right now!

Yeah, SB is a freakin mess down here. I posted some stuff in the weather thread in the lounge. The creek at the bottom of San Ysidro is like 200' wide now (by the houses)

The really great part is I'm trying to move during this mess and the rain won't stop so I can move my stuff! :mumble:

 

[leprechaun]

I had a friend who had the Sachs one in '96 and it did work-
Man i wish it was proven to be durable!
I swear i'm not buying another Dh/fr bike til i have some kind of tranny so the power of the drivetrain could be lined up with the pivot! Boo ho for me. I want 1 ring up front and still have some sort of a granny level low gear.I could still live with the r der.Ok someone post a pic of their Nicolai...

Jan Karpiel had one of those crazy Schlumpf drive bb's on his speed bike-with a 50t ring he was able to kick it into high gear and get like 80t equivelent!Then they all realized that it was all about coasting in a tuck.
Well there's some useless information.

 

[Zutroy]

A re-iteration of the old Sachs 3X7 hub. SRAM told me 34 tooth front ring max and not up to the task that I was intending. My friend Brian had one for a while and it worked ok for a while...boom

Yeah the 3x7 was a decent hub, The volvo C-dale crew use to fun them back in the day too. I blew min up, but it was nice on those course back then that had screaming fast sections and had flat or uphill on them too.

Down here in Ventura is a mess too, it was like a war zone yesterday, we were using the fair grounds here as a heliport for the rescue choppers, it was a very rough day for VNC Fire having to barrow equipment and crews from LAC fire, glad when the sun came out.

The Santa Clara river almost got to the new 101 bridge that was suppose to be high enough to never have to worry about the river flooding it.

 

[keeping_it_real]

Internal hubs are too heavy which doesnt help your unsprung weight for the suspension, they are inneffiecient due to internal friction between the gears.
No these Sram hubs or Shimano Nexus stuff isnt the answer Im afraid.
Keep to 8 or 9 speed, and if you come to a hill you cant ride up, get off and walk. Simple.