Strong riders and teams win tours. You might get an once in a lifetime ride, like LeMond's second tour win where he was on a weak team due to his return to cycling.Jeremy R said:Teams don't win the tour.
A single set of strong legs do.
Landis was the strongest for the whole tour hands down.
Until today. uch:
I was watching it right up until Sastre attacked, and the other GC guys responded. I took one look at Floyd, then cut off my TV and left. It was not like one of those things where he just lost contact,
he was done. You could tell right away.
Sad day.
www.letour.comMMcG said:so what's the breakdown in terms of GC riders.
Who's in Yellow and so on down the line?
Bingo....Floyd had to work his butt off a couple times already. Never thought he would crack this bad. Thought maybe he lose 2 minutes tops.sanjuro said:But for 5 of Lance's wins, he had guys like Heras and Landis motoring the front, which keeps the attacks to a minimum.
Pererio (sp) in yellowMMcG said:so what's the breakdown in terms of GC riders.
Who's in Yellow and so on down the line?
Lance was isolated in the mountains about a trillion times during his Tour victories. It simply did not matter if he was with 3 T-mobile guys or two CSC guys,. The strongest legs ride to the top.sanjuro said:Strong riders and teams win tours. You might get an once in a lifetime ride, like LeMond's second tour win where he was on a weak team due to his return to cycling.
But for 5 of Lance's wins, he had guys like Heras and Landis motoring the front, which keeps the attacks to a minimum.
I havent received my royalty from the use of my phrase.Westy said:Attack Mother ****er Attack!
not so sure about that JR...i only remember Lance being isolated one time and he said afterwards "That wont happen tommorow".Jeremy R said:Lance was isolated in the mountains about a trillion times during his Tour victories. It simply did not matter if he was with 3 T-mobile guys or two CSC guys,. The strongest legs ride to the top.
Are you kidding?Cant Climb said:not so sure about that JR...i only remember Lance being isolated one time and he said afterwards "That wont happen tommorow".
He was isolated when HE decided to hop out of the draft and drop their asses though....
i overstated that by saying 'one time'..Jeremy R said:Are you kidding?
Yeah, like I said, it was easier with a good team for sure.Cant Climb said:i overstated that by saying 'one time'..
..i dont rember the Pantani stage....
..... but i cant recall too many times when he didnt have Heras, Rubiera, Landis, Ekimov, Pena, Acevedo, Hincapie tucked next to him and systematically breaking the will of the peleton on his OWN terms. Landis has been left out to dry but thats no excuse for getting destroyed today.....
he bonked.jacksonpt said:I wonder if Landis just bonked, or if his hip gave out. I've got to think it's an injury that would give him problems throughout the tour.
http://www.letour.fr/2006/TDF/LIVE/us/0/index.htmljacksonpt said:Anyone have a link to the up-to-the-minute GC standings? WTF can't I find one???
I think he has been wearing down because of day after day after day of attacks. Some of which he couldnt respond to without the team. He just had to sit back and watch it go on, it has given alot of riders and teams the confidence to go on the offensive......today it all came to a head. Yesterday he led out and got to a waiting Axel who was lost in space and that allowed the guy behind him to get back on his wheel....OGRipper said:And yeah, he didn't have lots of his team guys around - just Axel putting up a valiant effort. But its not like he was alone in the wind, he was following wheels all day. Having team members set a high pace to soften the group and prevent attacks only works if you can stay on the wheels without getting into the red zone. Even if he had a guy like Heras to keep a high tempo, I have to ask if Landis would be able to follow and, if he could, if he would have anything left to make a final surge.
I was just providing what he asked for. Maybe you won't be around tomorrow to help out.The Toninator said:5 minutes ago<--------->Wumpus
jacksonpt said:Anyone have a link to the up-to-the-minute GC standings? WTF can't I find one???
True enough. But still, even if he had a team guy to mark the attacks, he would need to follow, and eventually the team guys drop off anyway. Either something went wrong (like a stomach thing, the hip, or who knows what) or he just didn't have the motor today. Totally understandable, just too bad.Cant Climb said:I think he has been wearing down because of day after day after day of attacks. Some of which he couldnt respond to without the team. He just had to sit back and watch it go on, it has given alot of riders and teams the confidence to go on the offensive......today it all came to a head. Yesterday he led out and got to a waiting Axel who was lost in space and that allowed the guy behind him to get back on his wheel....
sorry had a whole bunch of those laying around and had to do something with them.Wumpus said:I was just providing what he asked for. Maybe you won't be around tomorrow to help out.
i wanted to say something yesterday but didnt wana look dumb but a 'strong' guy would have made the break instead of just gapping when they were attacking him yesterday. I dont think he had that good of a day yesterday which let to the crack today.OGRipper said:But I have to say, I don't ever want to play poker with Landis. His face gives nothing away. Makes me wonder how much he's been suffering so far - everyone's been saying he's not been under pressure because he always looks calm. Well, he looked calm today too, even when he was going backwards.
He rides with no wasted motion, gives the illussion he's not suffering.OGRipper said:Makes me wonder how much he's been suffering so far - everyone's been saying he's not been under pressure because he always looks calm. Well, he looked calm today too, even when he was going backwards.
Yep, plus, he does not have that super quick acceleration, so even when he responds to attacks, he just spins back up to them as opposed to looking aggressive.Cant Climb said:He rides with no wasted motion, gives the illussion he's not suffering.
His upper body is silent.
Others guys get to rocking back and forth, bobbing their head, and frothing at the mouth.
Jeremy R said:Yep, plus, he does not have that super quick acceleration, so even when he responds to attacks, he just spins back up to them as opposed to looking aggressive.
I honestly do not think he did anything wrong stategy wise.
He wasted as little energy as he possibly could leading up to today, and then just cracked like Anne Heche out of nowhere.
or a couple pints of 'thick blood' last nite....Westy said:Well that or everyone else got a kilo of coke and some freshly picked adrenal glands at the feed zone.
Yeah exactly, there is a big difference between not being able to hold onto a wheel for a stage and what happened to Landis today.Westy said:Must have bonked or got dehydrated, can't really come up with any other explaination on why he would lose it so bad. If he was just plain tired he could have minimized the loss. Well that or everyone else got a kilo of coke and some freshly picked adrenal glands at the feed zone.
I would bet dehydration. Has been very hot. His useless team :mumble: didnt shuttle up enough water bottles over the last week.Jeremy R said:Yeah exactly, there is a big difference between not being able to hold onto a wheel for a stage and what happened to Landis today.
Take Menchov for instance, yesterday, he went off the back and suffered like a dog, but he only lost about a minute or so to Landis.
Today he must have rolled over a landmine.
Cant Climb said:I would bet dehydration. Has been very hot. His useless team :mumble: didnt shuttle up enough water bottles over the last week.
If you caught the post-race stuff on OLN, they showed Landis in the front seat of the team car, and he was downing bottle after bottle of fluid. It honestly looked like an alcoholic in a bar with free beer.Jeremy R said:Could be, I did a two and half hour MTB ride last night out at Paris Mountain in the 96 degree heat, and I emptied a 100 oz bladder camelback in no time.
I could not even imagine how much those cats have to drink during a stage.
That's why I said 5 of his tours it made a difference. The first one Armstrong had to fend off Pantini, and last year's he was isolated frequently. I think guys like Popoych and Savoldelli do not have what it takes to be Tour contenders.Jeremy R said:Are you kidding?
You gotta think back to all those tours when Pantani was attacking was forcing Armstrong to chase all day. It even led to Armstrong cracking bad on that last climb up to Joux-plane that day.
Luckily his lead was already so huge that it did not matter.
Armstrong was alone a lot in his tour victories, but he always had the motor. The same with Indurain. He destroyed them with his legs.
If it was the the Team that really mattered, then Discovery would be leading the Tour right now.
Tonite i am riding some of the MTB trails Floyd raced on as a young'n 10-12 years ago......will weeping the whole way.Jeremy R said:Could be, I did a two and half hour MTB ride last night out at Paris Mountain in the 96 degree heat, and I emptied a 100 oz bladder camelback in no time.
I could not even imagine how much those cats have to drink during a stage.
Definately a class guy, no excuses like "my brakes were rubbing". A couple of my old school MTB friends raced with him back in the day and have nothing but good things to say about the guy. I couldn't stand to watch the end of the stage on my DVR.sanjuro said:Well, I read the interview, and it was all class: no complaints no whining and "What is he thinking?": the next two stages!