Stans Flow MK3 and/or Maxxis EXO...
- Thread starter profro
- Start date
they'd be great for trails without East Coast Rox®
Whatever they're doing, it works for my Old Man Riding Style. Or maybe just with chinese carbon 26" rims in CO, UT and parts of WY.
New bike coming with Minon dhf/R max terra 3C. Any opinions on this compound? Doesn't really matter because I am going to run them, but I am curious if any of you have run em'...
Well, to be fair, I AM gonna die.
Just hopefully not before my Colorado vacation.
Just hopefully not before my Colorado vacation.
Which compound?
From memory you can't even get that in their soft / best compounds, which is why I said I personally wouldn't even consider running it. It's the same story for the Maxxis "dual compound" where the two compounds are cement and plastic.
If you are riding any decent tracks then you shouldn't be riding the NN anyway (like I said I wouldn't even consider it), the Magic Mary and Dirty Dan are where it's at.
brb though, off to buy @jackalope 's orange-striped Mobsters and tell everyone Maxxis sucks.
That tread pattern is a round profile non-obtrusive sack of crap. I didn't buy it, it was on a review bike. And I also didn't draw any farther reaching conclusions from it. And it was created in the last few years, not 1873. That tire design just sucks. You can tell because no tire that actually is a long standing, wide-reaching favorite looks anything like it.
So rather than stab in the dark for excuses or failings on my part, why can't you just recognize these things? Seriously, find any decent tire that resembles that sideknob pattern. It's not happening. For a reason. It doesn't work because it lacks some very basic layout principles that something like even a magic mary has.
You've ripped Schwalbe to shreds here before based on not even trying their best products or compounds, and written off the entire brand (to the point where people still regurgitate your BS) based on their worst designs.
This is the DH forum and the OP has bought the Magic Mary - which is a great product. I believe there's an AM forum here if you want to discuss the NN in great depth based on your test bike and unknown compound.
Like I said, every brand makes poor products, and both Maxxis and Schwalbe make great products too (I currently happily run both). I'd rather not waste my time ranting about ones that suck or aren't for gravity applications.
I got a racing ralph, mounted it and took it down to Arizona. Pre-rode some of the Whiskey Off-road course, not even the worst part, got a pinch flat (tubeless, but the tire was not a tubeless version) right off the bat. Put my bald-ass michelin Wild RaceR back on for the race. That said, I had to buy a tire from an LBS last week in a pinch to replace the bald ass michelin and the only appropriate racing tire was another racing ralph, this time tubeless casing. Seems to be ok. Have a hans dampf for the rear tire on my rfx, it's ok, does well in some conditions, but nothing that impresses me. If you look closely at their tires you'll notice the false sipes, where the sipe doesn't cut through the entire lug, so it won't flex and grip nearly as much as something like a minion or other aggressively siped tire IMO. I've avoided schwalebes for years due to the reports of see-through casings and ridiculously inappropriate durability. Seems like this is getting better, but their tread patterns aren't anything special IMO, lots of tires I'd use before them.
To be fair, Schwalbe has a bad rep for a reason. Tires ripping off rims (DH casing all the way to road tubeless tires), knobs disappearing, ripping out, easy cuts in carcasses, etc. Granted, they seem to have fixed most of those issues but it seemed like a general theme.
I run some Schwalbe tires as they came on bikes or I got them cheap (all top of the line models) and I am not impressed (ripping off knobs, casing cuts, varying weights, lasted only very short time). Best case was when I bought Table Tops for the DJ bike (yes Gary, I have one). Their weight should have been 590 g, but they were 617 and 672 g! That they weigh more than quoted is not OK but a known phenomenon, but the difference between them is quite amazing. Shows that Schwalbe does not have their production process under control IMO. Upon contacting them Schwalbe offered to replace them but I wasn't willing to wait 2-3 weeks and have to pay for shipping.
So tell me why I should trust their DH tires over well proven Maxxis products? A friend is testing the MM, so let's see how that goes. Maybe I can be convinced.
Nah.
IDK if they've largely fixed this, but over several years I found Kenda QC to be horrible. I would imagine they have, but I'm less inclined to take a chance with them. There are several cheaper fatbike tires right now too that simply aren't worth it due to the same type of issues. Apart from mounting and riding each tire in varied conditions for a week, you tend to go with what you know to be fairly reliable and good quality. And yeah, there were years you didn't want a boxxer because of the piss-poor damping systems they used across the board.
Focus udi, focus.
Nobby nic.
The tire that YOU (and some others) brought up.
If you haven't figured out most people in this thread (including the op) are talking about trail bike tires, I'll help: people are talking about trail bike tires. I even made a joke about it already. Don't try putting it on me for not sticking to DH only tires when you're bringing up NNs. Have you even ridden one of those NNs? I can't tell because you certainly wouldn't recommend something you haven't ridden would you? But you don't enduro........
You assume too much. I've ridden just about every tire in schwalbe's line up in some form or capacity, most of them in the compound that makes sense for what I'm riding. That NN I rode was a trailstar compound, the one that makes sense for the front of a trail bike. I hate to break it to you but compounds don't make a crappy design into a good tire.
I've said for years the muddy marys and magic marys are fine, they just could be better with some really simple changes. Aren't you the one with the persecution complex for pushing minutia in the pursuit of optimization?
It's one crappy tire design. Get over it. I certainly don't have any emotional attachment to you pointing and laughing at a maxxis griffon. I'll even help.
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I made a mistake clicking the "show ignored content" button. A lure if there ever was one.
I feel like some of you should read before responding, I mentioned numerous times that I run both Maxxis and Schwalbe, as in I currently run both on different bikes. I have no allegiance to either (both are great), my only point was that a lot of people bashing Schwalbe are basing their experience on:
The Muddy Mary and Magic Mary are actually very different, and in all conditions I found the Muddy Mary a pretty average performer, by current standards I'd call it poor. The Magic Mary is, in contrast, an excellent tire and I'm glad you're not able to make your "really simple changes".
I'm all for optimization, just not from people like you to be honest - you've clearly proven you can't even appreciate the difference between two leverage curves with clearly recognizable differences both on paper and in practice, and now you've proven the same with two very different tires.
You can't fix problems if you don't know what they are.
I feel like some of you should read before responding, I mentioned numerous times that I run both Maxxis and Schwalbe, as in I currently run both on different bikes. I have no allegiance to either (both are great), my only point was that a lot of people bashing Schwalbe are basing their experience on:
- Trying tread patterns that hands-down suck. Every brand makes/made some poor patterns (see: Maxxis Ardent, Mobster, etc), doesn't mean the whole lineup sucks.
- Products that have since changed significantly in pattern, compound and construction. If you don't know+specify the compound and construction of the tired you tested, no one should care if you thought it had no grip or tore/flatted easily, because you could have just picked terrible options when good ones were available or are now. Again, applies to all brands.
- Regurgitating stuff which other people have said, which they based on the above mistakes.
- Trying compounds/casings that suck, which is an easy mistake to make since it's poorly explained - BUT - Maxxis is just as bad on that count, which is why I think the most important thing is to understand the compound / casing options before choosing anything from either camp.
This alone makes it clear you have no idea what you're talking about, amusing to me since you're the self-proclaimed tire expert.
The Muddy Mary and Magic Mary are actually very different, and in all conditions I found the Muddy Mary a pretty average performer, by current standards I'd call it poor. The Magic Mary is, in contrast, an excellent tire and I'm glad you're not able to make your "really simple changes".
I'm all for optimization, just not from people like you to be honest - you've clearly proven you can't even appreciate the difference between two leverage curves with clearly recognizable differences both on paper and in practice, and now you've proven the same with two very different tires.
You can't fix problems if you don't know what they are.
I agree. So shut yer fuckin trap regarding a tire I've ridden and you obviously have notI
You can't fix problems if you don't know what they are.
You're the one getting all butt hurt about schwalbe and I'm just talking about one tire. One that you brought up.
But keep making it about the messenger ya douchebag. It's what you do when you get cornered on something. Everyone here already knows you're superior. You let everyone know constantly
Yeah nah.
I've ridden the tire (both versions of the NN in various compounds) and it's fine for what it is: one that isn't really for gravity use. The casing (primarily) and compound rule it out.
You seem to claim I said it was some amazing tire but I only mentioned it because the OP was buying Schwalbe and mentioned replacing an Aggressor - which the Magic and Dirty (the two actual awesome tires in the Schwalbe lineup) aren't exactly a suitable alternative for. I stated clearly that I wouldn't buy it myself.
As for commenting on stuff you haven't tried properly - what you said about the Magic / Muddy Mary speaks volumes. The only "knob vomit" is what's coming out of your mouth.
"Recommeded" or not, you brought that tire up. It happens to be one of the worst cornering tires I've ridden on the front of a bicycle. So I addressed it in hopes of maybe saving someone some money and maybe a collarbone.
I can't help your baggage regarding your opinion of my worthiness to address your highness, and I really don't care. The fact that you've now latched onto me saying two tires are 'fine' and nothing more just shows you've gone beyond wanting to actually discuss this and just act like your normal condescending dick self. I'm just here to talk about tires, not establish my internet awesomeness. So you can put me back on your imaginary ignore list and go back to patting yourself on the back for your unassailable awesomeness.
I can't help your baggage regarding your opinion of my worthiness to address your highness, and I really don't care. The fact that you've now latched onto me saying two tires are 'fine' and nothing more just shows you've gone beyond wanting to actually discuss this and just act like your normal condescending dick self. I'm just here to talk about tires, not establish my internet awesomeness. So you can put me back on your imaginary ignore list and go back to patting yourself on the back for your unassailable awesomeness.
Can you really not see the irony here, in you "latching on" to me making a passing comment on the NN (while saying "I wouldn't buy it myself") and making it sound like I said it was incredible and thus wrong? Like can you actually not draw that parallel?
I am in no denial about my personality traits, but you and I have way more in common than you think.
OH FFS YOU SENSITIVE SALLIES.
"i can feel the slightest off-placement of the 34th knob in clay-sand dirt on a 27^ berm at 5.3kmph...i notice the 2.7% difference in progressivity when i launch off a super gnar core steep booter on a reel old skool dh trak, objectively, and scientifically, from a theoretical standpoint, and i have actually ridden every shock available on the market, on the vpp frame, which is garbage, so i switched to a marstro link crabon fibre 28.275 frame with a 2.6* offset headset because every minute difference is SUPER IMPORTANT TO THE RIDE but i don't starva my rides because i just ride for fun, because that what it's all about, except SCIENCE."
YOU PRINCESS-AND-THE-PEA-FEELING-MUTHA-FUCKAZ
"i can feel the slightest off-placement of the 34th knob in clay-sand dirt on a 27^ berm at 5.3kmph...i notice the 2.7% difference in progressivity when i launch off a super gnar core steep booter on a reel old skool dh trak, objectively, and scientifically, from a theoretical standpoint, and i have actually ridden every shock available on the market, on the vpp frame, which is garbage, so i switched to a marstro link crabon fibre 28.275 frame with a 2.6* offset headset because every minute difference is SUPER IMPORTANT TO THE RIDE but i don't starva my rides because i just ride for fun, because that what it's all about, except SCIENCE."
YOU PRINCESS-AND-THE-PEA-FEELING-MUTHA-FUCKAZ
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I just said the tire sucked and was fine leaving it there. It had nothing to do with you. You're the one that made an issue out of it as if it were something personal. I say there are two tires from schwalbe I thought were fine just beause you took it as some greater statement about the brand and then I'm not worthy because I said something completely unrelated months ago and you go on a diatribe about my inadequacies in life.
Not really the same thing.
My comments on tires are not a personal affront to you. Really. Relax.
How are you still alive with those handlebars?
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Udi and kidwoo sitting in a tree
Discussing bikes and fruity things
First comes love, then comes marriage,
Then comes an e-fat-tandem 29er with a baby carriage
Discussing bikes and fruity things
First comes love, then comes marriage,
Then comes an e-fat-tandem 29er with a baby carriage
The NN is probably comparable to an Aggressor - solid enough rear tyre for enduro/trail but I wouldn't want to run either on the front. I'm running Aggressors now on a couple of bikes and have had pretty good luck with the DD sidewall through some rocky stuff on the Patrol. I've got been running the Exo Aggressors on the trail bike rear and they've survived for maybe 6 months but I tend to slow that bike down a lot more before pointy rocks.
Anyone who's decided to not try the Magic Mary based on previous Schwalbes is really missing out though. That tyre is bloody awesome, albeit a little slow rolling compared to a Minion DHF.
I brought up the NN and it was on a low level Giant something or another that my buddy had. We swapped bikes and I had fun drifting around on slightly loose over hard. However I didn't buy it for my SB6 for a reason.
I got the Magic Mary and Hans mounted up and rode Pisgah on Saturday. It was rainy, wet and at times monsoonal conditions. Roots were nasty slick.
Started out with close to 30 psi in each based on where I had to ride my Maxxis previously. Was able to start dropping front immediately to get better traction on roots. Not sure where I ended up, but found the tire to be really confident. Think it will be even better in looser conditions.
With the rear I dropped it a few psi but found it to be drifty, but in a very predictable manner. Almost providing just the right amount of over steer, which I like.
But best thing is that they both held air all day and even had air the following morning. Success!
In the end they are tires and I think grip wise on par with the DHF/Aggressor combo I was running. I think perhaps the Magic Mary was better than the 2.5 DHF WT I was running. I need to run on more conditions to tell, but so far I am really happy with the swap.
I will also say this, the Super Gravity casing felt like DH casing from tires in the mid 2000s. It had a noticeable insert in the sidewall. Furthermore, I felt that this combo rolled really, really well.
I got the Magic Mary and Hans mounted up and rode Pisgah on Saturday. It was rainy, wet and at times monsoonal conditions. Roots were nasty slick.
Started out with close to 30 psi in each based on where I had to ride my Maxxis previously. Was able to start dropping front immediately to get better traction on roots. Not sure where I ended up, but found the tire to be really confident. Think it will be even better in looser conditions.
With the rear I dropped it a few psi but found it to be drifty, but in a very predictable manner. Almost providing just the right amount of over steer, which I like.
But best thing is that they both held air all day and even had air the following morning. Success!
In the end they are tires and I think grip wise on par with the DHF/Aggressor combo I was running. I think perhaps the Magic Mary was better than the 2.5 DHF WT I was running. I need to run on more conditions to tell, but so far I am really happy with the swap.
I will also say this, the Super Gravity casing felt like DH casing from tires in the mid 2000s. It had a noticeable insert in the sidewall. Furthermore, I felt that this combo rolled really, really well.
Here is an article with some ranking done on different properties of the casings from several suppliers: http://www.endurotribe.com/2017/06/essais-comparatifs-trouver-bons-pneus-denduro/
And yes, it is in French...
And it's directed to the enduro crowd so if you don't like the word, replace it with "agressive trail riding" or "the kind of riding Sam Hill prefers over UCI world cup"
And yes, it is in French...
And it's directed to the enduro crowd so if you don't like the word, replace it with "agressive trail riding" or "the kind of riding Sam Hill prefers over UCI world cup"