But DT and AmClass have matching colors
Yeah, I noticed price difference :| I have to check local DT distributor.
Stan's ZTR Flow wheelset
- Thread starter DIRTWRKS
- Start date
Yeah, I noticed price difference :| I have to check local DT distributor.
When did this happen? The Pro2s I've had have been circa 172g.
This thread is SAD, even I think so!
Nerd alert!When did this happen? The Pro2s I've had have been circa 172g.
This thread is SAD, even I think so!
:biggrin:According to the US distributor Hope had problems with their rear hubs cracking the shell on the inside of the right flange. So they added some material there and to be on the safe side did this on the front as well.
Never have seen a Hope hub fail there, so pretty bummed about the weight gain. They addressed a problem that wasn't really there. Maybe they try to promote the Pro3?
155g
It costs 149euro (http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=3918) which is the same as DT Swiss 240s 20mm (http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=10030)
155g
Interesting find
look @ the tune mk wheelset when the tune site is up again (www.tune.de), its made of tune king/kong mk hubs, dt aero spokes and flow rims, 1652gIt costs 149euro (http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=3918) which is the same as DT Swiss 240s 20mm (http://www.starbike.com/php/product_info.php?lang=en&pid=10030)
Interesting find
How much do they cost? I did not know tune offered complete wheels.
I cannot access Tune website for some reason...
Well last time I looked the rear hubs were 400eur or thereabouts, so I expect about $1000 at least for the pair of wheels, maybe more. The AC hub is cheaper and lighter so I would never spend the money on a wheelset from Tune when most of the cost is in a component that someone else makes lighter & cheaper!
from being an american classic dealer and a tune dealer i can tell you that all the money spent on the tune over the am classic is well spent as it will outlast the am classic by about 10-1. The tune build quality is second to none. There hubs are amazingly well made with an unbelieveable amount of attention to detail put into it. In my experience the american classic stuff is very light and well priced but very much at the cost of durability. Very poor sealing on there hubs leading to high service intervils and frequent bearing replacements. A friend was the american classic uk distributor for a short while and he was plagued with warrenty problems.
i saw them for 1040,- online...
The Maxxis DH team is running the Stan's rim's, or at least thats what they had on there bikes last week.
But then again I guess factory teams don't really count when it comes to the reliability test, since there team mechanics spend most of there day's building fresh wheels anyways, and they often discard ones most of us would baby for another month or two.
They sound like a great race rim though!
But then again I guess factory teams don't really count when it comes to the reliability test, since there team mechanics spend most of there day's building fresh wheels anyways, and they often discard ones most of us would baby for another month or two.
They sound like a great race rim though!
Yup. I'm running Maxxis Advantage 2.4 tires with tubes.
Got the same setup as everyone else (Hope Pro II's, DT double butted spokes, brass nipples). Built them up about 18 months ago for my RFX and they've been just fine. A few dings and small dents, but nothing out of the ordinary after 18 months and they'll last through this season unless some major catastrophe happens.
Just a quick question.
Am I right saying the spoke's lenght I need for this setup (hope pro 2 wint stan ztr flow) is 258mm?
Am I right saying the spoke's lenght I need for this setup (hope pro 2 wint stan ztr flow) is 258mm?
The stans Flow rims are the most confusing rims I have ever tried.
The lace up great. The are round out of the box. They are light as hell.
I had them laced to Hope hubs, butted spokes. Put on a stans tubeless kit, and put on Maxxis advantage tires, foldable bead.
Rubbish.
Took 2 days to properly seal, with 4 scoops of stuff. They still slowly leak. first ride, they farted huge on the first corner, with 30PSI. Added more air, 35. Farts. Went up to 40, no more farts, but i mean...40 PSI?
Tried Kenda tires. Same thing. Unless the pressure was huge, it farted.
I was told to rock a steel beaded tire. Now, if I have to run a tire thats 200g (guessing, relax weight nerds) heavier, then one of the main points in rocking tubeless seems to be lost (weight savings), as well as having to run stupid high PSI.
So, this years challenge is to run UST tires, and see how that goes.
So, as a trail rim with thier tubeless kits, can't say I've had any luck whatsoever. In fact, one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. But I am very excited to see them as UST rims. It could just be that they marketed them the wrong way...
The lace up great. The are round out of the box. They are light as hell.
I had them laced to Hope hubs, butted spokes. Put on a stans tubeless kit, and put on Maxxis advantage tires, foldable bead.
Rubbish.
Took 2 days to properly seal, with 4 scoops of stuff. They still slowly leak. first ride, they farted huge on the first corner, with 30PSI. Added more air, 35. Farts. Went up to 40, no more farts, but i mean...40 PSI?
Tried Kenda tires. Same thing. Unless the pressure was huge, it farted.
I was told to rock a steel beaded tire. Now, if I have to run a tire thats 200g (guessing, relax weight nerds) heavier, then one of the main points in rocking tubeless seems to be lost (weight savings), as well as having to run stupid high PSI.
So, this years challenge is to run UST tires, and see how that goes.
So, as a trail rim with thier tubeless kits, can't say I've had any luck whatsoever. In fact, one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. But I am very excited to see them as UST rims. It could just be that they marketed them the wrong way...
Its not that they are a pain in the ass, its that they are a pain in the ass if you try to use them as they tell you too. I've spoken to a few other people, and apparently if you throw UST tires on there they just rock the house. This is second hand info though, as I havent' been able to do it myself yet.
So strange, but true.
So strange, but true.
FYI Tune hubs are pathetic.
They are for weight weenies who build bikes to take pictures of and not to ride on.
I consider my self a bit of a weight freak and I purchased the tune king and kong hubs and they were never on my (Iron Horse MKIII) bike for more than a couple of months before they failed.
I cracked hub shells (front twice and rear 3 times) and freehub bodys 3 times. The bearings were also proprietry so each time I had the bodys replaced I had to spend about £60 on bearings.
The UK importer for Tune "poshbikes" refused to do any of the work under warranty and charged me each time. I spoke to the same person (I'll call him bull**** man) at posh bikes each time and the customer service was a joke - the guy would tell me some story about how I was the only person who ever cracked one and then in the same conversation would tell me that tune have produced a new style freehub body for harder riders like myself who crack them.
I snapped a hub shell on the front within 24 hours of having it replaced during a 24 hour XC race.
Avoid tune hubs!
They are for weight weenies who build bikes to take pictures of and not to ride on.
I consider my self a bit of a weight freak and I purchased the tune king and kong hubs and they were never on my (Iron Horse MKIII) bike for more than a couple of months before they failed.
I cracked hub shells (front twice and rear 3 times) and freehub bodys 3 times. The bearings were also proprietry so each time I had the bodys replaced I had to spend about £60 on bearings.
The UK importer for Tune "poshbikes" refused to do any of the work under warranty and charged me each time. I spoke to the same person (I'll call him bull**** man) at posh bikes each time and the customer service was a joke - the guy would tell me some story about how I was the only person who ever cracked one and then in the same conversation would tell me that tune have produced a new style freehub body for harder riders like myself who crack them.
I snapped a hub shell on the front within 24 hours of having it replaced during a 24 hour XC race.
Avoid tune hubs!
Tune vs American Classic hubs - this is now getting interesting 
VS
I must admit, I love ridemonkey. You can learn soooo much before spending hard earned money
Thanks Smelly! Any problems running them at over the recommended 38lbs? I find I need to run my Advantages at about 38/42 to prevent pinch flats.
It seems like the real advantage would be running 'normal' tires, Stan's, and just the yellow tape+valve included with the rim...not sure I'd want to be limited to UST.
I've had the wheels for 4 months now and I haven't burped once. One tire is a UST the other is standard. The standard one leaks about 5-8 psi per week but has never been a problem on the trail. My Hutchinson Barracuda UST was 900ish g and the standard one about the same. I run 30 psi on the trails.
Are you running the tape or the rubber rim strip?
I have both installed. Worst luck ever.
The tires aren't UST. THey are Maxxis Advantage, so the tape alone wouldn't do the job for tubeless.
Trying to get some tubeless tires on there soon though.
Trying to get some tubeless tires on there soon though.
I have Flow's on my AM/XC bike (2005 Enduro) with UST Alberts. I know this is a DH forum, but I ride them fairly hard and weigh in at 210lbs w/o gear. I'm in the NE, Ottawa to be exact, and a lot of my riding resembles Bromont, for those of you who know the terrain.
I first tried my Flow rims with Nevegals and tubes, and would pinch flat all over the place, it was really weird and really annoying.
So I bought some yellow tape, the valve stems and UST Schwalbe Alberts and have had NO problems since. The one and only time anything happened was when I landed a small drop to flat slightly crooked on my rear wheel and burped the tire. About ten yards later the tire blew off the rim. Nevertheless, I was able to do a trail-side repair, and get the thing to re-seal with just my hand pump. I'd say that's pretty darn good.
I ran this setup all last year, riding 2-3x/week , and just got back from Fruita, Moab and Phoenix. These wheels are still going strong, and I expect them to last through this season no problem at all. Mid-season last year I changed my rear tire out to a 2.3 UST High Roller and that works just as well as the Schwalbes (if not better - I wish they made the Advantage in UST).
Once you get the right combo (yellow tape and UST tires) it's a simple, reliable, hassle free system, IMHO.
FWIW, I have had the exact opposite experience as you with the exact same tires.:biggrin:
Ha, I know you always shoot it straight, so that sucks that you had problems,
but mine were troublefree.
I got my I9's build up with the flow rims for my shova st trailbike.
I used one layer of the 5g yellow tape, their valve stem and used 2.25 Maxxis advantage tires. I only put a scoop and 1/2 of stans in, and they only leaked until I did my first trailride the next day, and have not leaked any since, well, except for a few PSI which all my tires do that.
And I have never burped them, but I did burp these same tires on my old 5.1 rim setup quite often.
I am running around 35psi in them with good luck, maybe a little more in the back.
This wheel setup is the fastest rolling setup I have ever used. Scary fast.
I am loving them so far. I have no idea it these rims hold up for real Dh, but I know they are sick on my trailbike.
The uk tune importer is a bit of an eccentric chap. I hate having to call him he keeps you on the phone forever talking crap, he always goes off on mad tangents. I haven't got a huge deal of experience with either tune or am classic hubs for dh. In my shop we did alot more of there road stuff and most of my opinions are based on the longevity/durability of there hubs and bottom brackets. I've never experienced any problems with tune hubs cracking etc. I like the fact the tunes use standard bearings as there easier to get hold of. Although its rare you need to replace them with tune as there well sealed. On the other hand the AM Classic use custom bearings which don't last very long. So i know which i'd buy for myself. Although personally i wouldn't be bothered with either. I'd rather buy hopes or industry nines.
The AM Classis hubs are almost identical to the WTB Laserdisc Lites hubs (Same manufacturer/Design) except for a bit more material removed and the steel inserts on the FH Body. While I have no experience with the AM Classic hubs, I can tell you that the WTB hubs come spec'd with very cheap bearings which you can blow throw in one day of lift accessed riding. Additionally, the engagement design isn't exactly strong. It uses a metal tab that engages 6 pawls, but essentially all the force is transmitted through the one tab which breaks often. The WTB also hubs have terrible seals that don't last long, which contribute to the premature bearing failures.
As a shop mechanic, I've seen almost every wtb hub we've sold come in often for bearing changes. The FH body problems happen less often but still happen. Enduro bearings in the hubs considerably lengthened the life of the hubs but they still would only last a few months of average trail riding (read: XC or AM, not DH).
As the AM Classic hubs are identical to the WTB LAserdisc hubs, all the info above applies. For weight weenies that don't ride hard or much, or for people that don't mind doing bearing changes every month or so, they are fine to use. Otherwise, step it up a notch and buy a set of Hope hubs which are cheaper and about 100 times better.
As a shop mechanic, I've seen almost every wtb hub we've sold come in often for bearing changes. The FH body problems happen less often but still happen. Enduro bearings in the hubs considerably lengthened the life of the hubs but they still would only last a few months of average trail riding (read: XC or AM, not DH).
As the AM Classic hubs are identical to the WTB LAserdisc hubs, all the info above applies. For weight weenies that don't ride hard or much, or for people that don't mind doing bearing changes every month or so, they are fine to use. Otherwise, step it up a notch and buy a set of Hope hubs which are cheaper and about 100 times better.
You should be fine with the new American Classic hubs. A couple years ago they had bearing issues, but they have improved them each year and I have not heard of the current hubs having that issue.
The new Tune hubs should also hold up better too. The dh hubs now have a ti freehub body and the internals are stronger.
The new Tune hubs should also hold up better too. The dh hubs now have a ti freehub body and the internals are stronger.
Dude, no, they have been making a 150 mm hub for at least 4 years now, I have one and the only reason I have it was I picked it up for 5$ at a bike swap. It's a ****ty hub but how can you argue for 5$ and it's lighter than the Hope by a negligible amount. The bearings are terrible but even with toasted bearings the wheel still rolls with out much drag.
Sounds correct IIRC
You sure about that? I feel a weenie like myself would have known about it if that were true.... maybe I'm wrong though! And it's not a negligible amount, it's 60g, which is pretty significant. Hope is 295, AC is 236, roughly 20% lighter. If you took a 36lb DH bike and made every component 20% lighter you'd be left with a 29lb DH bike, so that's definitely not a negligible amount, IMHO.
Anyway, I've still only had mine a month or two, but no issues yet, I'll make sure you guys are the first to know if it dies
A bump for an update, I'm still undecided on what tyres to run on these rims. I think it's mainly my tightness holding me back tho as I have 2 pretty much brand new twin ply DHF's sitting in my van 
Don't want to go buy new tyres if people have had better experiences with standard twin ply, should I man up and buy new UST tyres or not?
Don't want to go buy new tyres if people have had better experiences with standard twin ply, should I man up and buy new UST tyres or not?
Im rocking the High Roller 3c WB non ust tires on my ZTR hoops. I have 6-8 hrs with no problems.
My tightness ended up getting the better of me, just fitted the dual plys. 2.35 on the rear, 2.5 on the front. 2.5 took a bit more effort than the 2.35 but still easy, well impressed! Not quite sure I put enough Stans liquid in, will see if they still have air in in the morning!