Stan's ZTR Flow wheelset
- Thread starter DIRTWRKS
- Start date
I'm running the UST minions and they're working great! 30psi and no burping at all.
The ZTR rims have been holding up well. 1 flat spot from riding the rear rim right after my Specialized Chunder blew off. Bead was too loose to be effectively used for a tubeless setup. I've been doing lots of chundery laps on the North Shore the wheels (built by me) have held up great!
The ZTR rims have been holding up well. 1 flat spot from riding the rear rim right after my Specialized Chunder blew off. Bead was too loose to be effectively used for a tubeless setup. I've been doing lots of chundery laps on the North Shore the wheels (built by me) have held up great!
I have been running them for a few months now with some Swables (sp) Muddy Marries front and rear and only have one small dent in the rear because i was stupid and did not check the pressure, still holds air fine and everything
no, sorry. Chris King hubs cannot be used with anything but Marwi Ti flat-bladed spokes and carbon fiber rims.
I am positive, Santa Cruz has been specing the wtb super duty wheelset on the VP free since it came out in 2004, with that hub. I say it's negligible because there is limit to how light things can be before they are too light. I say it isn't significant because, (a) you couldn't remove 20% from every bike part and keep anywhere near the necessary strength and (b) you should be thinking of it as 60g off of the rear unsprung weight which is 4500+ grams for the wheel, triangle, cass, der, brake. In that case it's closer to 1.3% which is insignificant. Rotational wise it is completely insignificant. Nothing against you personally, but that part is just too light for it's application.You sure about that? I feel a weenie like myself would have known about it if that were true.... maybe I'm wrong though! And it's not a negligible amount, it's 60g, which is pretty significant. Hope is 295, AC is 236, roughly 20% lighter. If you took a 36lb DH bike and made every component 20% lighter you'd be left with a 29lb DH bike, so that's definitely not a negligible amount, IMHO.
Anyway, I've still only had mine a month or two, but no issues yet, I'll make sure you guys are the first to know if it dies
how could you forget the purple anodised aluminium nipples?
) tracks they seem great,of course! thanks for that. how careless, I forgot about nipples. don't the nipples have to be lubricated with the urine from a puma?
Go tell i9 that 60g of rotational weight is insignificant. I have a feeling you may get a lecture.
A 29lb DH bike does sound pretty scary based on my experience tho!! (Mine's 46/overbuilt - bet then Im 245 and 'overbuilt'!)
Nipples.
There.
Maybe you couldn't take 20% from most of the parts you think of as you already use them but nevermind. I don't think you see the point. The little weight gains are what really makes a differance between a solid 37lb build and a 41-44lb build. I've seen many bikes with the big parts quite light that ended quite heavy anyway and the owners had no clue how to lose the weight. You loose by that 60g+ xg+yg on small parts. I was able to ditch around 300-400g of my bike with no significant gear changes.
I've got a few weeks of riding on my Flows so far they are doing great. Been riding them for DH and FR, two races on them already.
No complaints.
No complaints.
It's hardly rotational weight. Look at the center of mass of portions of the hub(assume it's not circular, so you can have a lever arm), even if you dissect the hub the only part of it which would make even the slightest difference in acceleration by being lighter is the flanges and outer portion of the cassette body, everything else is so close to the center it becomes insignificant. You would benefit 10x as much with a lighter cassette in terms of rotational weight. the difference is about the same as replacing a nipple or two with alloy nipples instead of brass.
Even with generous calculations assuming the center of mass is ~15mm from the hub center and the nipples are ~260mm (based of 520 erd). You can see that for every 1g shaved from the nipple area = 17g from the CoM of the hub
The difference is strictly unsprung weight, which I agree less = better, but some things just aren't worth it.
Take a look at my build(37.4 w/steel spring and 09 boxxer team), I do understand the point. What I'm trying to say is 65g off a part which 290 is already light for, is too much. Take a look at the bearings in the AC and WTB's, they are tiny and don't last for sh1t and the hub engagement system is terrible. The reason AC's aren't more popular is because they are over priced for a substandard part which won't last. instead of 65 on the hub, save yourself 40-50 with an X9sl or something.
Lighter isn't always a good thing. There will always be someone who doesn't have problems with a product but I can say from first hand experience with the WTB, which has the same pawl system, and from everyone else I've met at races who've had the hubs, they are just terrible. As soon as I get the money I'm going to relace my rear wheel with a hope so I don't have to deal with the stupid WTB anymore.
Geax 2.3 DHEA TNT rear, and 2.5 Geax Lobo Mas Loco font. 25-30psi pending on conditions.
The front has a tube in it at the moment due to a misshap on my behalf that resulted in cracking the valve core
but the back is tubeless, running a bit of Stan's sealant just to be safe. No burping so far - of if it has it's been very little and I never noticed.
From my collection (a small handfull) of maxxis tires. The NON ust ones leak like a siv on the sidewall, but the bead seems to seal well.
Sorry, I can't speak about the Schwalbe's
I was toying around with the idea of coating the inside of the tire before mounting with latex (main ingredient in sealant) Ill try it when I need a new set. I like the idea of easy tire changes for diff. conditions, Im just too cheap to shell out the cash for ust.
Sorry, I can't speak about the Schwalbe's
I was toying around with the idea of coating the inside of the tire before mounting with latex (main ingredient in sealant) Ill try it when I need a new set. I like the idea of easy tire changes for diff. conditions, Im just too cheap to shell out the cash for ust.
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Hi
Is there any long term feedback/follow up yet? I would be interested in hearing how ZTR Flow rims perform in DH race conditions.
Thanks
Is there any long term feedback/follow up yet? I would be interested in hearing how ZTR Flow rims perform in DH race conditions.
Thanks
I posted some feedback a little while ago in this thread.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3234088#post3234088
Overall very satsfied with this rim I would say it's not quite as tough as say a Mavic 721 but then again it's 100g ligther also.
I think they are best suited for lighter and fairlly smooth racers or as a FRO wheelset for a heavier rider etc.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3234088#post3234088
Overall very satsfied with this rim I would say it's not quite as tough as say a Mavic 721 but then again it's 100g ligther also.
I think they are best suited for lighter and fairlly smooth racers or as a FRO wheelset for a heavier rider etc.
Thanks for this
I just raced this past weekend on my set of Flow. The course was fast flowy with a couple mellow rock sections and the rest dirt and roots. I had ZERO issues running 28psi on Minion DHF UST tires. I weigh 180lbs.
For non rock garden courses, I can totally recommend these rims.
I-9 DH spokes on Stan Flows w ZTR with rim tape and valve installed.
20mm
150mmx12mm
Combined
For non rock garden courses, I can totally recommend these rims.
I-9 DH spokes on Stan Flows w ZTR with rim tape and valve installed.
20mm
150mmx12mm
Combined
I've only done one race on my set and a few push up days at a local race spot, very impressed with the wheels so far.
The race I done was a very fast techy rock fest and the only damage to the rims was one tiny ding in the rear wheel, I know it's there and it still takes me an age to spot it.
I was experimenting with tyre pressure in practice and on the run that this damage happened I was only running 22psi in the rear (twin ply 2.35 DHF) stupid low pressures I know! Both rims are still true and altho the recommended spoke tension is off putting at first I still can't feel any flex in these rims altho I only weigh 10 stone so...
Fitting and inflating tyres is a piece of piss and neither rim has burped in the short time I've used them.
These things are perfect for smooth tracks or tracks with only the occasional rock garden altho as above I did run them on a track with a **** load of rocks just to see how they would hold up! A track that put a couple of new dents in my set of 721's the weekend before for what it's worth altho I don't think the Flows will be as tough in the long run. I think they resist denting just 'cos the sidewalls are so shallow.
The race I done was a very fast techy rock fest and the only damage to the rims was one tiny ding in the rear wheel, I know it's there and it still takes me an age to spot it.
I was experimenting with tyre pressure in practice and on the run that this damage happened I was only running 22psi in the rear (twin ply 2.35 DHF) stupid low pressures I know! Both rims are still true and altho the recommended spoke tension is off putting at first I still can't feel any flex in these rims altho I only weigh 10 stone so...
Fitting and inflating tyres is a piece of piss and neither rim has burped in the short time I've used them.
These things are perfect for smooth tracks or tracks with only the occasional rock garden altho as above I did run them on a track with a **** load of rocks just to see how they would hold up! A track that put a couple of new dents in my set of 721's the weekend before for what it's worth altho I don't think the Flows will be as tough in the long run. I think they resist denting just 'cos the sidewalls are so shallow.
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i just got mine built up a month ago. still a bit worried about destroying them, especially since i didn't have time to build them my self and the guy who did it was less than impressive. so far so good, i re trued them and pre-stressed them again since it wasn't done the first time around.
i know this is a really subjective question, but what kind or spoke tension are you guys running? mine feel quite soft in the rear even though i am close to rounding off brass nipples even with a four sided spoke wrench. maybe due to the rim not having eyelets?
the weighing scale i used must have been a bit whack since mine turned out lighter than those I9s posted further up. 850g front, 980g rear.
pro2, 20mm front, 150 rear.
dt competition
dt brass nipples
i know this is a really subjective question, but what kind or spoke tension are you guys running? mine feel quite soft in the rear even though i am close to rounding off brass nipples even with a four sided spoke wrench. maybe due to the rim not having eyelets?
the weighing scale i used must have been a bit whack since mine turned out lighter than those I9s posted further up. 850g front, 980g rear.
pro2, 20mm front, 150 rear.
dt competition
dt brass nipples
Tell me more, what don't I know?
Mine are on DT supercomp spokes with ally nips. I've not noticed any problems around the spoke holes yet, and I'm running the spokes just as tight as on any other wheel I use. About "20" on one of these: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=TM-1
Using dual-ply (non-UST) maxxis, set up tubeless with the stans rimstrip. Rimstrip works really well, tyre pretty much becomes one with it - never burped any air, and not surprised, took me quite a while to peel the tyre off even after I'd let all the air out! New tyres mounted pretty easily using a bit of soapy water (VERY tight, I wouldn't recommend trying it dry!), and inflated much more easily than same tyres on 823s, due to the tighter fit.
Had no problems with the AC hubs I'm running either. I've had these wheels all season now, have done 15+ DH races, most on these wheels. I ran them at Vigo, but decided to run the burlier 823s at Fort William. They have their limit I'm sure, at the end of the day it's a light rim, use it wisely!
Using dual-ply (non-UST) maxxis, set up tubeless with the stans rimstrip. Rimstrip works really well, tyre pretty much becomes one with it - never burped any air, and not surprised, took me quite a while to peel the tyre off even after I'd let all the air out! New tyres mounted pretty easily using a bit of soapy water (VERY tight, I wouldn't recommend trying it dry!), and inflated much more easily than same tyres on 823s, due to the tighter fit.
Had no problems with the AC hubs I'm running either. I've had these wheels all season now, have done 15+ DH races, most on these wheels. I ran them at Vigo, but decided to run the burlier 823s at Fort William. They have their limit I'm sure, at the end of the day it's a light rim, use it wisely!
Your weight seems correct.
The I9 front hub and spokes are SUPER LIGHT (Lighter than Hope hubs and butted with al nipple).
The rear I9 hub is heavier than the hope hub by 50 grams or so.
Are you lubing the nipple heads??
I slip a lil bit of triflow around them before tensioning. Not on the threads mind, but where the nipple seats in the rim.
I build em with the reconmended tension of 100 and have had no issues with rounding
i normally grease the nipples and the threads, but this time round they went on dry. some lbs hacks put it together as i was in a rush this time, really starting to regret it.
some people say yay, some people say nay to greasing the threads. i tried it on my last wheel build, hadleys - 823s - dt spokes and alu nipples. spent a whole day building those up, really high tension. i subsequently rounded most of the nipples off trying to true it slightly after a month, i gave up after that coz the mud must have seized everything up. didn't matter they stayed true and in tension for the next 3 years. couldn't be happier!
the spokes in the rear are lower than 100 for sure, dont need a tension meter to tell me that. looks like i might have to rebuild my wheels then.
was anyone anal enough to take the edge off the inside of holes in the rim with a de burring tool? a slight chamfer there might help the nipple sit better. i did notice when i was truing them, the nipples aren't in line with the spokes. probably because the hole is quite tight, and forces the spoke to bend slightly just after the nipple. made using a four sided spoke wrench a bitch!
some lbs hacks put it together as i was in a rush this time, really starting to regret it.some people say yay, some people say nay to greasing the threads. i tried it on my last wheel build, hadleys - 823s - dt spokes and alu nipples. spent a whole day building those up, really high tension. i subsequently rounded most of the nipples off trying to true it slightly after a month, i gave up after that coz the mud must have seized everything up. didn't matter they stayed true and in tension for the next 3 years. couldn't be happier!
the spokes in the rear are lower than 100 for sure, dont need a tension meter to tell me that. looks like i might have to rebuild my wheels then.
was anyone anal enough to take the edge off the inside of holes in the rim with a de burring tool? a slight chamfer there might help the nipple sit better. i did notice when i was truing them, the nipples aren't in line with the spokes. probably because the hole is quite tight, and forces the spoke to bend slightly just after the nipple. made using a four sided spoke wrench a bitch!
100 on what tool?
I presume he means kgf, which is pretty much exactly what my tensioning to 20 on the park tool corresponds to: http://www.parktool.com/products/documents/TM-1_Table_WEB_4-7-09_200947_72578.pdf (supercomps are 1.7mm spokes)
Yep.
I have almost the exact same wheels as you on my trailbike.
I9's on Flow rims, but with the regular spokes instead of the DH ones, and
a 135mm rear hub with a 10mm thru axle. They weigh in right at 1700 grams.
I can't believe wheels that light can be so stiff. It makes me want to try those Flow rims on my DH rig next.
Just meant when these wheels were built up the spoke tension was IMO pretty low (My hubs are only available as prebuilt wheels from Hope, they were then checked by a very reputable wheel builder) compared to say how I would build up a 721 wheel, as you know Stans recommend building with lower tension than most other rims.
Yes, I agree.
Just got these build, now all I need to do is fit the yellow tape, value, tire an sealant, and hopefully it will all work
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