Stan's ZTR Flow wheelset
- Thread starter DIRTWRKS
- Start date
I tried it with a High Roller on the back and, well, jonKranked and DirtyMike can attest to how well it went. Burped the sh*t out of it repeatedly, and eventually blew the tire off the rim entirely in a corner.
i have raced and ridden black rock with the front UST minion/ZTR flow as low as 17 psi without sealant, no problem.
as they say on teh internetz....you're doing it wrong.
as they say on teh internetz....you're doing it wrong.
I've had no trouble with other tubeless systems, including Flows with sealant, but maybe. It's also possible it was just a dud tire, I kind of gave up on UST tires on those rims after that, seeing as how I'd done well with regular tires and sealant
Or maybe you're just not riding hard enough.
USE sealant KNTR, I have done the UST thing and I from here on out will have Stans in anything I run....
I have had the 823s and regardeless if its a UST tire or a reg. Stans FTW... Gashes happen, punctures happen its amazing what happens in the rocks at full speed....
Trust me the few ounces iw well worth the reliability in the crap out there, a flat tire ruins $h!t..... LOL that and destroyed rims....
Burping tires, rolling a tire on a HARD g-out they happen and stans will seal that thing fast and keep you going... Plus when you seat the bead put a little stans between the rim and the tire it actually dries the tire to the rim and eliminates burping.. I dont use soap and water and havent for a couple years now, a little stans on the outside bead (as well in tire)...
I have had the 823s and regardeless if its a UST tire or a reg. Stans FTW... Gashes happen, punctures happen its amazing what happens in the rocks at full speed....
Trust me the few ounces iw well worth the reliability in the crap out there, a flat tire ruins $h!t..... LOL that and destroyed rims
....Burping tires, rolling a tire on a HARD g-out they happen and stans will seal that thing fast and keep you going... Plus when you seat the bead put a little stans between the rim and the tire it actually dries the tire to the rim and eliminates burping.. I dont use soap and water and havent for a couple years now, a little stans on the outside bead (as well in tire)...
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My LBS which is a big mailorder Universal Cycles just built mine up for about 650 and that was with a 150mm hub..I know they got them
Just to keep this thread kicking along haha, how does a Minion DHF (non UST) go with the Flows? I'm reading that they burp a bit and having the rim strip is a good idea. Not sure if this is a good idea or not but I was planning on using these a fair bit in the bike park..
So after this thread I bought the Flows. My rear Flow has cracks at every spoke hole. I was told by a different bike shop that the other bike shop retensioned the spokes too much. Now the bike shop wont replace them. We checked the spokes and they were around 175 spoke tension. I thought Flows were suppose to be around 80-120. Sounds like the bike shop over tensioned them and ruined the rims.
Is this common with the Flows?
Is this common with the Flows?
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Well since they're not eyeleted they're more sensitive to being over tensioned than a lot of other rims, but I'm not aware of any such issues with wheels that I trust were tensioned properly, including quite a few I've built personally.
Nope never heard that before. Definitely sounds like way too much tension. Been riding a set of flows with hadleys for the last 6 months and only thing I've had happen was a busted spoke and a small ding in the rear wheel running tubeless.
Flows should be tensioned at a maximum of 100 (kgf?) according to Stans. That's how I built mine, but haven't ridden them yet. 175 is way overtensioned!
ia dt ex1750 from the factory is ~170kgf (table runs out of conversion for exact number)
the recommended tension for most manufactorers are all around 150-ish on average
bontrager: 130 (29er) -> 180kgf (26er)
fulcrum: 140kgf
mavic: 150-160kgf
shimano: 140kgf
just FWIW
the recommended tension for most manufactorers are all around 150-ish on average
bontrager: 130 (29er) -> 180kgf (26er)
fulcrum: 140kgf
mavic: 150-160kgf
shimano: 140kgf
just FWIW
They are going to talk to the guy that tensioned them, but he is on vacation. They said they were cracked when I brought them in. Yes they were cracked. I agree. They had trued them before that too. They are the only shop that has ever trued them. If they did it INcorrectly the 2nd time Im pretty sure they trued them INcorrectly the first time.
http://www.notubes.com/literature/ztr_rim_specifications.pdf
Max 100 kgf
There are is also some forum chatter around the net about the relatively low max kgf for Stan's rims due to the lack of eyelets, but people who build them right don't seem to have any problems and there are no complaints on flex that I'm aware of.
Max 100 kgf
There are is also some forum chatter around the net about the relatively low max kgf for Stan's rims due to the lack of eyelets, but people who build them right don't seem to have any problems and there are no complaints on flex that I'm aware of.
ride a flow wheel @ 100kgf and 160kgf dt ex500 (similar weight and profile) back to back. they feel way different.
if 1 is better than the other is totally subjective though.
if 1 is better than the other is totally subjective though.
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Heres a question.
Is there a product out there like a washer that can be used in non-eyeletted rims that will help spread the load at the spoke head?
Is there a product out there like a washer that can be used in non-eyeletted rims that will help spread the load at the spoke head?
pretty widely known that Stan's rims shouldn't be significantly overtensioned. however there are plenty of LBS's that specialize in being clueless.
on a side note, the eyeletted version of the stan's flow (on the sun ringle charger pro) has a max tension of 110 kgf...with lower spoke count.
on another side note, some experienced builders exceed the 100 kgf spec w/ Flows, but not by much. 175 sounds way overtensioned.
on a side note, the eyeletted version of the stan's flow (on the sun ringle charger pro) has a max tension of 110 kgf...with lower spoke count.
on another side note, some experienced builders exceed the 100 kgf spec w/ Flows, but not by much. 175 sounds way overtensioned.
on yet another side note, there is a school of engineering thought that eyelets make the cracking issue worse, not better. i remember reading a fairly detailed analysis on that. while it didn't make me give up my pro-eyelet prejudice, it did make me realize that there is more going on here.
I only run a Flow on the rear on my hardtail (and not tubeless) and find Them noticably more flexy than my default choice of 721 for the back of a hardtail but no, I'm not really complaining considering the weight difference.
Don't think I could ever get away with running one on the back of a DH bike tho
just built up the new WTB TCS free ride rims for my trail bike (23mm internal width, 540g) and those are pretty sweet. built nice, also offered in a 21mm internal width 455g version and a 470g 23mm internal width version. eyelets, UST bead. i wish they were welded, rather than internal sleeve, but so it goes.
really like the ex500 too, those things build great.
Why not the Mavic 721? 580g, and takes more abuse than a fat ginger parking cop.
Prone to rolling tires off if you ride hard enough with anything less than brand new Maxxis tires and will crack at the eyelets eventually, the hard anodised ones anyway.
Rims are disposable on a dh bike anyways, if you get more than 6 months you're doing alright.
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Hi Guys, sorry for the off topic, but I am looking at replacing my wheels in my HT. The options I am looking are Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs, DT Competition spokes with DT brass nipples with one of the following RIMs: DT FR600, Mavic 819 or 729 or 721, ZTR Flow.
I am not going to go for tubleless, instead I will be using tubes with Nobby Nic up front and Racing Ralph at the back, both 2.25. I am doing heavy XC and fast descends, however the places I usually ride are a bit rocky which sometimes you could easily say they are like rock garden.
Which one do you suggest? I love the ZTR flow looks and weight but from all the posts I read in this thread I am a bit put off with regard to their durability. Also how would it behave with in a non tubeless setup, would it ride ok, or too many flats?
The DT looks nice but none seems to use them, very very few reviews and threads, the Mavic are also nice but do not like the looks!
Seeing that I am not the type of guy that I will be spending money every year on rims, and I would like something more solid that also looks nice and fits my bike colours (Black/Red/White), would you recommend the Flows or is it better to go with the proved and tested 819?
more or less the question is Mavic 819/729/721 vs ZTR Flow, which of these?
Thanks a lot
I am not going to go for tubleless, instead I will be using tubes with Nobby Nic up front and Racing Ralph at the back, both 2.25. I am doing heavy XC and fast descends, however the places I usually ride are a bit rocky which sometimes you could easily say they are like rock garden.
Which one do you suggest? I love the ZTR flow looks and weight but from all the posts I read in this thread I am a bit put off with regard to their durability. Also how would it behave with in a non tubeless setup, would it ride ok, or too many flats?
The DT looks nice but none seems to use them, very very few reviews and threads, the Mavic are also nice but do not like the looks!
Seeing that I am not the type of guy that I will be spending money every year on rims, and I would like something more solid that also looks nice and fits my bike colours (Black/Red/White), would you recommend the Flows or is it better to go with the proved and tested 819?
more or less the question is Mavic 819/729/721 vs ZTR Flow, which of these?
Thanks a lot
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819 with tubes =823 with tubes=teh suck. flat soo easy with tubes
so you would suggest the Flow over the 819 or the switch to non tubeless rims like the 721 or 729?
I really hope they made that carbon dh wheel the team has been testing and the differance will be similar to their am line. Though they will probably be priced silly. My ztr/old 823 combo that is <2000g and is dh compatable should be ok for now.
Heard of issues w/ the am wheels... on multiple sets of them.
If you are doing "heavy xc" you will be more than fine with Flows. The people here having problems with the Flows were using them for riding downhill tracks on downhill bikes.
I had a set of flows on my "heavy xc" bike (2005 Spec Enduro) and they lasted me 3 full seasons with absolutely no problems. I only replaced them to try and go lighter, so I replaced them with Arch rims from Stans.
I have recently picked up a pair of WTB Laser TCS Trail rims for my trail bike, that will replace the Arch rims when they die. I like them because they are a little wider than the Archs. I would add those rims to your list, but it's a toss-up between those and the Flows. Maybe get what is cheapest?
I had a set of flows on my "heavy xc" bike (2005 Spec Enduro) and they lasted me 3 full seasons with absolutely no problems. I only replaced them to try and go lighter, so I replaced them with Arch rims from Stans.
I have recently picked up a pair of WTB Laser TCS Trail rims for my trail bike, that will replace the Arch rims when they die. I like them because they are a little wider than the Archs. I would add those rims to your list, but it's a toss-up between those and the Flows. Maybe get what is cheapest?
Thanks for the info, is it an issue that I will not run them tubeless?
well, according to Stans, because the bead-hook is lower, you'll get less pinch flats (since the rim wall isn't as high). but, I can't say I have really tested that out; I've been tubeless for the past 4 years.
But why not go tubeless? Schwalbe makes sidewalls that lend themselves very well to tubeless use...
either way though, I think you should be fine, but I can't say so from experience.
But why not go tubeless? Schwalbe makes sidewalls that lend themselves very well to tubeless use...
either way though, I think you should be fine, but I can't say so from experience.
I ran a set with tubes all year on my AM bike with only one flat. Rims have held up great and I've only needed to do minor truing.