[bURKeNSTiEN]

howdy folks.

I've recently started using a frame that has one of those godawful integrated headsets. It is quite possibly the grittiest, non-smooth, bound thing in the world. If you turn the fork 65+degrees, it stays there, it doesnt swing freely.

Now, I used to have this fork on my old frame attached via a king hs. This was smooooth as silk.

Now, putting this fork on the frame with integrated hs, the handlebars just wont move freely.... So i've taken the bearings out, inspected them, they are all smooth running by themselves. The integrated adaptors seem to be flush to the frame, and I am tightening the headset as I always have on every other bike & have never had a problem.

The only thing I can see that is out of alignment is the Star fangled nut. it's not inserted 100% square into the top tube. It is maybe 1.5mm higher on one side inside the steer tube. It's a tiny amount but its the only thing I can measure that is out of alignment.
Is that likely to cause the problem? I'd think not because if I put the fork w/ its wonky SFN back into old frame with King headset, its smooth sailing.

So something is up! goddamnit and its driving me nuts as I'm used to Mr King's smooth ways.

Anyone have any ideas??
Cheers

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Nope the star nuts only purpose is to adjust the headset. The stem is too large and tolerances to tight to allow it to cock the headset to one side.

 

[speedbump]

Another possibility is that your stem needs to be faced. If the bottom surface of the stem is not perfectly perpendicular to the steerer tube it can cause the upper headset race to sit slightly crooked and cause the headset to bind. Our shop has a tool to do this and while I haven't used it on an integrated HS bike, I've had dramatic results with regular headsets.

 

[bURKeNSTiEN]

Originally posted by speedbump
Another possibility is that your stem needs to be faced.

Interesting... I will check it out
Its a Ritchey WCS

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by speedbump
Another possibility is that your stem needs to be faced. If the bottom surface of the stem is not perfectly perpendicular to the steerer tube it can cause the upper headset race to sit slightly crooked and cause the headset to bind. Our shop has a tool to do this and while I haven't used it on an integrated HS bike, I've had dramatic results with regular headsets.

Can you face a stem?

Or do you mean face the headtube? According to the King website: " 'Integrated headsets' (the drop-the-bearing-into-the-headtube type) rely on frame manufacturers to make the headtube perfect. There is no way (currently) for a bike shop to ream or face one of these frames. If you get a bad frame, or if you damage your frame, your shop is helpless to fix it."

Check this out: Perdido

 

[BikeGeek]

and this: Integrated Headsets

 

[indieboy]

Originally posted by bURKeNSTiEN
Interesting... I will check it out
Its a Ritchey WCS

yeah i'd be willing to beat that ritchey stem is a-ok b/c those guys make quality stems n seatposts....

 

[Motionboy2]

Originally posted by indieboy
yeah i'd be willing to beat that ritchey stem is a-ok b/c those guys make quality stems n seatposts....

I am with him.

Inspect the top cap of the headset before you put the stem on. Does it sit flush when you put it on there. How many headset spacers are you using. Just about every manufacturer recomends that you use at least one. It is supposed to put an even amount of pressure on the top cap. What headset, Stem, Frame and fork is it?

Oh and your lower race is on secure and straight and the fork was faced. (yes you can face a fork and it is especially necessary on full carbon forks)

 

[speedbump]

Originally posted by BikeGeek
Can you face a stem?

Or do you mean face the headtube? According to the King website: " 'Integrated headsets' (the drop-the-bearing-into-the-headtube type) rely on frame manufacturers to make the headtube perfect. There is no way (currently) for a bike shop to ream or face one of these frames. If you get a bad frame, or if you damage your frame, your shop is helpless to fix it."

Check this out: Perdido

I know it sounds weird, but J.A. Stein makes a tool to do it. High quality stems are less likely to need it, but I have seen even some of them be slightly crooked.

 

[BikeGeek]

Originally posted by speedbump
I know it sounds weird, but J.A. Stein makes a tool to do it. High quality stems are less likely to need it, but I have seen even some of them be slightly crooked.

Cool. I'd never heard of that.

 

[bURKeNSTiEN]

Originally posted by Motionboy2
I am with him.

Inspect the top cap of the headset before you put the stem on. Does it sit flush when you put it on there. How many headset spacers are you using. Just about every manufacturer recomends that you use at least one. It is supposed to put an even amount of pressure on the top cap. What headset, Stem, Frame and fork is it?

Oh and your lower race is on secure and straight and the fork was faced. (yes you can face a fork and it is especially necessary on full carbon forks)

okie dokes

Top cap of the headset does indeed sit flush to the head tube.
I have one 20mm carbon spacer between stem & top cap.

Headset - FSA zerostack (dont know the exact mode; - oem on frame)
frame - merida magnesium elite
fork - fox float 80rlc
stem - ritchey wcs

Fork was not faced, but never a prob in my other frame with a king HS.
crown race is flush


I got to spend some more time on this tonight as I have a race on Sunday & want it smooth!

 

[Rev.Chuck]

The Stein Facer is often the ticket for this problem, only takes a minute to use.
But, when you pull the bearings out are they free moving? Can you tell if the "cover" (The machined part that probably has a FSA logo engraved on it and is between the spacers and the upper bearing. I have only seen this happen on Cane Creek before but I have seen the cap touch the lip of the bearing cup or frame and bind. The solution is to put a very thin spacer between the cap and the bearing.

 

[bURKeNSTiEN]

Originally posted by Rev.Chuck
The Stein Facer is often the ticket for this problem, only takes a minute to use.
But, when you pull the bearings out are they free moving? Can you tell if the "cover" (The machined part that probably has a FSA logo engraved on it and is between the spacers and the upper bearing. I have only seen this happen on Cane Creek before but I have seen the cap touch the lip of the bearing cup or frame and bind. The solution is to put a very thin spacer between the cap and the bearing.

Im at work ATM, I dont think it binds... but I will check it out when i get home
Thx