[rockwool]

First of all, you know are you speaking for yourself when you talking about the Fourth Reich.

Secondly, a friend's band named their album The Fifth Reich, which I never understood since they are not nazis or racists. I was mildly embarassed when I worked the merch table.

Finally, if we pulled our military out of all foreign nations, the Russians, the Georgians, the Libyans, the North Koreans, the Chinese, the Taliban, etc would have a field day.

I do think we should pull out of Iraq though.

Then we have to ask our selves what was the Third Reich, what were their plans, what did they mean with "the 1000 year Reich"?

Could you please answer these for me? Only plainly on top of your head, what you remember from school, these aren't trick questions, nor is this a test/essay for class.

 

[rockwool]

excellent book that i read while deployed in africa where i was helping to keep ethiopians and eritreans from killing each other over a few miles of border. you know, imposing my world view of anti-genocide upon the poor unarmed sheep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrean-Ethiopian_War
i read quite a bit but probably not as much as you "doo" because i was busy getting out and experiencing the world instead of just reading about it at home amongst a cloud of smoke.

I read the Wiki article and I have to say it lacks in deapth analysis on what's going on in the Horn of Africa. It completely talks about the conflict as border dispute over land, not a word of what's under it. Just before reading it I read this article below which looks at the Horn of Africa situation with African eyes. As I said a few posts back, it's about oil and that's why you was deployed there.

South African Communist Party Condemns US Attacks on Somalia

This statement, issued today, is headed:

THE S.A.C.P. CONDEMNS THE RECENT U.S. MILITARY ATTACKS IN SOMALIA AND CALLS FOR PEACE AND THE FULL IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL OF ALL US TROOPS FROM ALL PARTS OF THE CONTINENT

The SACP expresses its deep shock and absolute condemnation of the US military bombardment carried out in Somalia and lately the deployment of ground forces in Somalian territory. The recent overt US military attack in the last 16 years on African soil inaugurates the full-scale application of Bush’s dangerous energy and security strategy in the African continent, especially in the Horn of Africa.

There is little doubt that these imperialist attacks, as in Iraq, will set in motion a cycle of terminal violence in the region. Only time will determine the predictable reproduction of clan based and religious strife, the intensification of sectarian divisions to thrive on and underpin US regional occupation and militarization of the Horn of Africa.

The consequences are predictably devastating for dignified life and will undoubtedly cause major disruptions in peace for the people in the Horn of Africa region.

Contrary to claims by the dominant Western media, the murderous military strikes were completely arbitrary, offensive and have no justifiable basis in international law. The attacks demonstrate Bush administration’s devotion to unilateralism and plunderous aggression, complete disregard of lives in pursuit for profits and contempt for African governments and multilateral institutions such as the African Union.

The silence of African governments smacks of proxy imperialist complicity. The permits to use their infrastructure also demonstrates the snowballing effect in allowing imperialist dictates to hoodwink governments into unpredictable military pacts with Washington.

In the past few years the US has conceptualized a dangerous policy for Africa entailing substantial military presence in the continent. It has undertaken training of African troops in offensive maneuvers, consolidated its influence to a barrage of puppet regimes, extracted massive concessions from African governments to use their ports, harbours and airspaces for offensive operations against any perceived threats on their security and energy needs.

This comes against the backdrop of the collapse of its imperialist strategy in the Middle East which was met with active struggles and resistance by anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist and democratic social forces. This resistance struggles proved to the world, the possibility to significantly impede imperialist aggression through active popular mobilisation.

Various military establishments including the Combined-Joined Strategic Task Team for the Horn of Africa, the US European Command, the US Central Command and the US Pacific Command have placed increasing attention on the continent to secure its vast oil deposits in countries such as Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, Congo Republic, and the Horn of Africa. The acquisition of oil exploration concessions and the subsequent extraction of corporate super-profits by multinational US oil firms will relegate African lives to secondary importance. They will now be maimed on suspicions of terrorism. Environmental degradation and labour exploitation are also set to intensify.

The SACP stands firm in our assessment that behind the veil of fighting terrorism, there is now an unbridled US strategy to Iraqi-ise the horn of Africa. The US currently has over 1800 troops in Djibouti alone, from which the recent attacks on Somalia were launched, including establishments in many African countries. The US army covered by some “African Contingency Operations Training Assistance” (ACOTA) program, provides the cover to dispense military education and training of African troops involved in peace-keeping operations, humanitarian relief efforts. The US has however disingenuously used these programs to stretch its anti-terrorist training program and counter terrorist and infantry tactics. In securing the strategic positions for African oil, the Bush administration is now more inclined to support authoritarian regimes and consolidate its relations with despotic African leadership such as in the case of Equatorial Guinea.

The SACP condemns the military attacks on Somalia and calls on African governments, with active popular backing of our people, to express total condemnation of shifting US policy in the Middle East to Africa and

* To review all military ties and pacts that allows the presence of US troops in Africa
* The withdrawal of US military and all its troops and facilities in the continent
* On the South African government, in its capacity as a member of the UN Security Council , to take an active stance on this imperialist invasion of Somalia by the US and its Ethiopian proxy
* The AU to be central to the resolution of the problems besieging Somalia

We further call on all our people to
*Mobilize for peace and social and economic justice, against militarism, imperialism and war
*To build a broad continental, anti-imperialist ‘Peace Movement” in the continent.

An empire has always conquered by dividing. Today, it is no longer politically correct to outspokenly say some things, and there's also a tactical aspect to keep some stuff unsaid, like some of the tactics that an empire uses in it's conquering.

Look at the most well known example of today, Iraq, where the US is playing various minorities against each other so that they won't be able to unite against them. Of course, the rethorics of the Empire are saying otherwise, like blaming some of it on Iran (but that blame is put there as a part of a future Cassus Belli, isn't it?).

 

[BMXman]

wow from coffee and unions to education and now the military...it's like this whole thread is comprised of people with ADH.....hey look snow!

 

[manimal]

The other some of you guys were those who even though you knew those intel reports were false (those that the Admin pushed), let them lead you, like sheep, into an injust war to commit attrocities on the Iraqis.

you're assuming that i was referring to the intel reports from the current war. i was, in fact, referring to actual intel ops i was involved in during my time in the service ( i got out in '01). i was trying to make it known that there is a lot the general public will never know (and for good reason) about the threats currently facing this country and others as well as the way information is obtained. whether those threats are self made, as your well written responses seem to show, is a moot point at this juncture because what's done is done. you're right, i was never at a high enough level to see the tin-foil hat big picture but i still believe in our system of government and the necessity for our current military strategies.

and i haven't forgotten about a retort to why your country wasn't invaded in
WWII; but i'll get to that after i fix the kids dinner


side note: i truly enjoy debating with the likes of you, samirol, [cough] silver, and the like...it forces me to do more research than i would on my own whim and, even though i seem like a conservative blow-hard compared to you guys, i've actually had some folks at work make reference to me being a pinko commie because i've questioned and disproved a lot of the BS rumors going around about everything liberal

 

[rockwool]

you're assuming that i was referring to the intel reports from the current war. i was, in fact, referring to actual intel ops i was involved in during my time in the service ( i got out in '01).

Yes I did assume you served under this horrible admin, well that changes a little but not much as the foreign politics are just a wee bit more agressive today. The US has been an Empire since late 19th century (when it had grown enough to implement the Monroe doctrine from ~50yrs earlier), and ever since it's politics have been the same as todays (its ambition grew after WWII though); to open up markets, secure energy supplies, and further its geopolitics.

Side note....The term "hawks" portraying the current admin is therefore incorrect, as none of the previous ones ever were anything but birds of pray. Vampires is more correct, and it's also used by Rastafari's when describing them.

i was trying to make it known that there is a lot the general public will never know (and for good reason) about the threats currently facing this country and others as well as the way information is obtained. whether those threats are self made, as your well written responses seem to show, is a moot point at this juncture because what's done is done. you're right, i was never at a high enough level to see the tin-foil hat big picture but i still believe in our system of government and the necessity for our current military strategies.

Indeed there are loads that the general public doesn't get to know of. Although, looking at your country, it doesn't hesitate to scare its citizens about external threats (this happens only to a little extent over here), this is our of the reason that the public not only will allow the admin to further its politics, but also because that we're easier to rule over when we're under stress (because we can't think as clear).

Those threats, assuming that they're true, are all due to your pressence (with all what that means from small suffering up to horrible occupation) in those countries. I don't see that ass a moot point as we have to be against something that's wrong. And you, Manimal would also be a 'terrorist' if the US was one of those poor nations that won't be left to prosper in peace, I can bet one of my nuts on that, there's no way in hell that you'll let some body unjustifiably walk all over you.

Your system of government hasn't been elected by the Somali's, or anybody not a citizen of the US, and that makes your president a dictator. You've probably too have heard many times a documentary commentator ask "how was it possible" and "how could they allow it" and "how could they fight for such a country" when speaking of the German public and their support for the 3rd Reich.

Brake down a nation and what do you got? One single individual. Would you as a PC allow one individual harm another in any way, just because his ego is saying that it's right and he has the physical ability to do so?

and i haven't forgotten about a retort to why your country wasn't invaded in
WWII; but i'll get to that after i fix the kids dinner

side note: i truly enjoy debating with the likes of you, samirol, [cough] silver, and the like...it forces me to do more research than i would on my own whim and, even though i seem like a conservative blow-hard compared to you guys, i've actually had some folks at work make reference to me being a pinko commie because i've questioned and disproved a lot of the BS rumors going around about everything liberal

Let me guess, a plate of ketchup, a spoon of mashed potatoes, and half a saussage each?

Yeah, that's what's cool about this place!
You are a pinko commie at heart, it's just your enviroment that affects you soo much it puts you of balance (and I can immagine how the other guys are - thank you Hollywood).
Hey, while visiting a coffe shop in A-dam I spoke to a PC that was there on a break to have a half pint (didn't see if he smoked), pretty cool country, huh? That's immaginable over here.

 

[Defenestrated]

and i haven't forgotten about a retort to why your country wasn't invaded in
WWII; but i'll get to that after i fix the kids dinner

I smell nationalism