Stealing WiFi?
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
Heh! That was my only means of access a couple months ago.
J
JRB
Guest
You put a signal in the air, it is a common signal. Why are people being penalized for other's inability to secure their things??? If you put your bike in a park and leave it unlocked, can you bitch when someone takes it??? Sheesh.
I agree with you, but your analog is off.
I wouldn't have a problem with someone piggy-backing my wifi, except for the fact that I already download and upload a lot of media, so I don't need someone else adding to my dl totals and calling more attention to my piracy :evil:
I wouldn't have a problem with someone piggy-backing my wifi, except for the fact that I already download and upload a lot of media, so I don't need someone else adding to my dl totals and calling more attention to my piracy :evil:
J
JRB
Guest
Then securing your signal would make sense, eh???
,thanks to several monkeys, I'm secure (MAC Addressing limited) except to good hackers and frankly, I don't want to invest the time into being that secure.loco said:
If my neighbors said they wanted to piggy-back just to surf the web and email, I'd add them. Would that be illegal?
it seems to me that their is no resonable expectation of solitary use when you're broadcasting 400' away, especially in a city environment. it's really not that hard to password protect your connection. it would be different if this guy hacked into it or something. there must not be very many wifi connections in winnebego county, because out here the officer would have been hard pressed to decipher which connection he was actually using.
J
JRB
Guest
I don't know why it would be. I don't recall anything saying I couldn't share my service, but I didn't read the fine print either.LordOpie said:
J
JRB
Guest
The big question is, don't they have more important things to do??? Couldn't they just catch a car/bike thief??? Seems silly to me.manimal said:
but that's what this is all about, "sharing", yeah?
If the guy wasn't doing anything intense enough to disrupt service, then the 'crime' he's committing isn't against the user, but the provider.
with that in mind, if I agree to share with my neighbor or the idiot in his car outside my house, is it still a crime?
If the guy wasn't doing anything intense enough to disrupt service, then the 'crime' he's committing isn't against the user, but the provider.
with that in mind, if I agree to share with my neighbor or the idiot in his car outside my house, is it still a crime?
LordOpie said:what's funny is, with all respects to manimal and the other cops here... I didn't think cops were tech-savvy enough to even know what wifi was
easy now....i'm no systems admin or anything (even though i completed 95% of the MCSE course before the school went bankrupt and i still got my MCP and A+ cert. out of it)....but most of us can at least ping an IP address and know enough to research internet and connections history to figure stuff out
J
JRB
Guest
Manimal's response already takes away the funny answer, but I'll say it anyway.LordOpie said:what's funny is, with all respects to manimal and the other cops here... I didn't think cops were tech-savvy enough to even know what wifi was
How can they not know about WiFi??? All good coffee shops have them.
How do you think I get online? Free wi-fi on campus, free wi-fi at the corner coffee shop, free wi-fi from the neighbors.
I believe every citizen in this country deserves wi-fi and health care. My name is Macko, and I am running for president.
I believe every citizen in this country deserves wi-fi and health care. My name is Macko, and I am running for president.
Not to bring too serious of a tone to this, but there are some interesting things with WiFi.
As far as I know, there are no laws for WiFi connections, but I know in Oregon and most other states, you can be charged with a felony for accessing someone elses network. You can say "well, they should secure it then" but you are knowingly accessing it, so it is still against the law. It's the same as pluging into a network that isn't yours, only without the plug
Then there are "community" wireless systems that some people have put together between houses or in apratments. Unless you are paying the cable company extra for the additional connections, this is the same as stealing cable tv. If you are connection sharing with your neighbors, but only paying for a single connection, they can get you for that.
Portland has one of the largest public hotspots around and is free to use. It is sponsored by EasyStreet and you can make donations, but you have to agree to the license when you first connect.
I have a coffee shop in town with a public connection and there are a wealth of "open" connections around if I am waiting for the bus or train. I think you will see a lot more laws passed at some point because the cable and phone companys don't like to loose money and if you were connection sharing in a track home development, you could have 20 or 30 nodes runing off a handle full of connecitons.
As far as I know, there are no laws for WiFi connections, but I know in Oregon and most other states, you can be charged with a felony for accessing someone elses network. You can say "well, they should secure it then" but you are knowingly accessing it, so it is still against the law. It's the same as pluging into a network that isn't yours, only without the plug
Then there are "community" wireless systems that some people have put together between houses or in apratments. Unless you are paying the cable company extra for the additional connections, this is the same as stealing cable tv. If you are connection sharing with your neighbors, but only paying for a single connection, they can get you for that.
Portland has one of the largest public hotspots around and is free to use. It is sponsored by EasyStreet and you can make donations, but you have to agree to the license when you first connect.
I have a coffee shop in town with a public connection and there are a wealth of "open" connections around if I am waiting for the bus or train. I think you will see a lot more laws passed at some point because the cable and phone companys don't like to loose money and if you were connection sharing in a track home development, you could have 20 or 30 nodes runing off a handle full of connecitons.
There was already a whole thread about another case where someone was fined for stealing WiFi. Many of the same arguements were made... I think free WiFi is eventually inevitable thanks to advancements in protocols like WiMAX.
My guess is that eventually, most major cities will have free wireless access.
Frankly, I think if you leave your wireless connection open, then you're inviting people to use it. If it's being broadcast into my own house, it seems silly that it's against the law to use it. The less-than-tech savvy could easily use such a connection totally by accident, with no knowledge that they're not using their own wireless connection.
My guess is that eventually, most major cities will have free wireless access.
Frankly, I think if you leave your wireless connection open, then you're inviting people to use it. If it's being broadcast into my own house, it seems silly that it's against the law to use it. The less-than-tech savvy could easily use such a connection totally by accident, with no knowledge that they're not using their own wireless connection.
Go for it Macko! You have the comfort of knowing you couldn't do any worse.macko said:
WiMAX is sweet, I got to work on some stuff at Intel last year that was part of some huge demo they did. But I doubt WiMAX will be free, Intel isn't know for giving away technology. The idea around it is to give brodband connection speeds to rual areas, not to spread free wireless love.binary visions said:
I didn't mean that WiMAX will necessarily be free. However, because advanced wireless protocols are being developed, wireless internet access is getting cheaper and more accessible. I believe that eventually wireless internet will be a free commodity in most major cities.jimmydean said:
When my internet breaks, or im on vacation, its the only way to get it.
You are correct sir. Again, Portland has had free access at Pioneer Courthouse Square for a while now (like 5 years off and on). I know that the Portland Business Alliance has been expanding the coverage to most of downtown as well through Personal TelCo (www.personaltelco.net). But places like Starbucks are pissed because you can't charge for access if it's free outside.binary visions said:
It still blows me away when I found out Starbucks charges for access at some locations (unless you're clever
).
Please expound, with links. Thanks!jimmydean said:(unless you're clever
Just out of interest, how many of you have download limits? Is it usual in the US?
I agree that turns it into a radio signal like entity. Once it is password protected, then it falls into the catagory of satalite T.V. and stealing is wrong and illeagal.binary visions said:
Some ISPs have download limits. It's becoming less and less common, though.LordOpie said:
The best analogy is like leaving your house unlocked and someone comes in and takes something.
Just because your house is open doesn't mean that someone is allowed to enter, but, if you call the cops and tell them someone took your TV and your house wasn't locked, you won't get much sympathy.
Just because your house is open doesn't mean that someone is allowed to enter, but, if you call the cops and tell them someone took your TV and your house wasn't locked, you won't get much sympathy.
No the best analogy is someone puts their T.V. in you livingroom plugs it in and hands you the remote and you watch it. An open network should be interperated as just that, open. Free for anybody to waltz in and use. If you don't want someone to use your network, either hardwire, or click "yes" during set-up when it asks if you want it to be secure.Austin Bike said:
No, it's more like the TV is in your house and you watch it.Austin Bike said:
No. Its more like setting up your own bleachers outside the fence of a football field to avoid paying for the ticket. You're receiving a service, but not paying for it. Thats called stealing.Transcend said:
Sure, as long as they play the football game in my living room.BurlyShirley said:
It's not my fault if people are too stupid to secure their own network. It takes 3 clicks and 20 seconds.
With free WIFI everywhere, how is one supposed to know what is public and what is private? I've actually mistakenly joined the wrong network in my own house. If someone doesn't want people using their signal, they need to secure it.BurlyShirley said:
When i go to my GFs house, I routinely connect to her network (my extra router), the neighbor's, and the university network (her house is on a campus). I have passwords for hers and the university, so the powerbook selects the strongest signal and connects to that network. The neighbours just didn't bothering securing.BeerDemon said:
So without going out of my way, and from the comfort of my own living room while drinking a coffee, I am committing a criminal offense? I think not.
It's more like finders keepers, then theft. If i leave my wallet on a park bench and take off and forget and someone finds it with no ID in it...are they stealing it? I didn't think so.
The fact remains, that if you connect to someone elses network, you are commiting a crime. But if you are sitting in your house and are not doing something bad with your stolen connection, I doubt you would be in trouble.Transcend said:
Notice that all the cases that have been brought to court involve sitting outside someones home either on the curb, or in the car. That is a clear case of steeling because you couldn't be using yours if you are out front of someone elses house. Where as in your case you have access to a legal connection, but the neighbors put off a better signal (or in my case, my neighbors ssid began with a zero and my wifes windows machine went in numerical order) so it could be proven as acidental.
Fraser makes a good point, most computers will just conect, you don't always know what network you're hooked up to. The guy in the story was sitting in his car, presumably he searched out the signal, witch I think is retarded but not criminal. So the scenareos are a little different, but the moral is the same, an un protected network is essential an invatation to use it. Hacking a protected network is the crime.
Exactly, I was actually going to bring up wardriving. Driving around witht he expressed intention to compromise open networks (or even encrypted ones) is vastly different from sitting in my living room and connecting to one.jimmydean said:
2 things need to happen. 1. First and foremost, people need ot be help accountable for your own actions. Secure your network, or consider it public. 2. A line needs to be drawn between black hat type network invasion (always up to no good!) and accidental or non malicious use.
If your network extends into my home (which also has a network), and I accidentally connect and DL a 4gb Linux DVD ISO and that puts you over your DL limit...TOO BAD. Secure your damn network and it wouldn't have happenned.
I wouldn't say it was an invitation to use it ( insert chick in bar was drunk and dressed hot, looking to get raped analogy here). This will hopefully change, people really need to take responsibility and not claim ignorance. If you can't handle WiFi networking, use a bloody plug.maxyedor said:
I do however thing that a locked down network is a clear intention to make the network private. Even if it is lousy WEP or mac address filtering. The intention is clearly there. Therefore, your use of a LOCKED network, is a violation of privacy laws.
I agree 100%, if your system is "open" then it's open for business. But if they want to crack down on wifi connection "borrowing", then they can still bust you if they want, even if it was not done with intention.
But if everyone secured their network well enough, I couldn't check my email and surf RM from the bus stop in the morning.
But if everyone secured their network well enough, I couldn't check my email and surf RM from the bus stop in the morning.