[N8 v2.0]

I'm far from being a 'right to lifer' but I wonder just how moral it is to cannibalize other humans so that I might live.

But on the other hand, I'm as selfish as the next person when it comes to my life...

So the question is (religion aside) is creating human embryos for the sole purpose of killing them for research a good thing or not?

Why can't a woman who has an abortion be able to donate her fetus to science?

Uggg....

 

[Skookum]

Because Dick Cheney has dibs on them yummy morsels.... neaky:

 

[Skookum]

Because Dick Cheney has dibs on them yummy morsels.... neaky:

if you laughed your going to hell. :devil:

 

[ohio]

So the question is (religion aside) is creating human embryos for the sole purpose of killing them for research a good thing or not?

Just to be clear, legalizing stem cell research is not legalizing the farming of embryos. It (as widely advocated... I'm sure there are extremists though) allows for the use of emryos that would otherwise be discarded (mostly from fertility treatments, is my understanding). There is a HUGE difference in my mind.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

Where does the right stand on the rights of an unborn fetus from parents that are Islamic terrorists?

Is this fetus by default an enemy combatant?

Fair game then!

 

[Changleen]

Embrionic stem cell research = Good.

 

[Silver]

Where does the right stand on the rights of an unborn fetus from parents that are Islamic terrorists?

Is this fetus by default an enemy combatant?

Fair game then!

Abortion is justified and necessary in that case as a pre-emptive strike, I think. Let me consult offical RNC policy and get back to you...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

to calm down my anti-abortion beliefs, i would have no problem with stem cell research, if say the tissue has your own dna.

if it has you own dna, then its part of you, and its like growing skin. (of couse it raises the question that an identical clone, would actually be part of you and all the implications on that, but i just rather dont think about it so i dont get out of my comfy mindset-corner)

BUT the only chance for that, is that the donor-recipient if female. we males would be out of the deal since we aint got no eggs. in that case????....hmmm

i would like to be pro-stem-cell, but i still gotta find an argument that convinces me.

still, the line is too blurry to see. where does life starts? implantation? or conception???
hmmmmm...... that is the question for me...

 

[Damn True]

Just to be clear, legalizing stem cell research is not legalizing the farming of embryos. It (as widely advocated... I'm sure there are extremists though) allows for the use of emryos that would otherwise be discarded (mostly from fertility treatments, is my understanding). There is a HUGE difference in my mind.

If they can do it under those circumstances Id be for it. Otherwise...yikes.

Tough subject.

 

[Silver]

still, the line is too blurry to see. where does life starts? implantation? or conception???
hmmmmm...... that is the question for me...

Consciousness...

 

[ohio]

If they can do it under those circumstances Id be for it.

As far as I understand it (and I'm def no expert) those ARE the circumstances... the big argument against it is a slippery slope one; that is, the fear that if fertility docs know the extra embryos can be used for research, they'll have an incentive to produce more embryos than necessary purely for fertility treatment... in effect, farming embryos.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

still, the line is too blurry to see. where does life starts? implantation? or conception???
hmmmmm...... that is the question for me...

"You're not a human being till you're in my phone book..."

- Bill Hicks on abortion

 

[Mackie]

Consciousness...

Hey, great idea - because consciousness is so easy to define.....

 

[HedgeHog]

As far as I understand it (and I'm def no expert) those ARE the circumstances... the big argument against it is a slippery slope one; that is, the fear that if fertility docs know the extra embryos can be used for research, they'll have an incentive to produce more embryos than necessary purely for fertility treatment... in effect, farming embryos.

Do you think the incentive of the fertility clinics would be monetary? You can't legally "buy" a kidney for transplant. If the clinic couldn't sell them to a scientific firm, but had to donante them, wouldn't that diffuse the "farming" issue?

 

[KFulch]

Stem cell research, especially embryonic; will help the future of medicine progress in such a way we could actually see cures for diseases rather than treatments. I am not going to post some long winded post with personal insight and media fueled propaganda cluttering it up. Embryos will not be "farmed" if this type of research is allowed in populus labs. Embryonic stem cells are easily manipulated in culture to coalesce into many different tissues. Adult stem cells are readily used and available in culture but usually only propagate into fat cells (adipocytes). If we can learn what the proper "trigger" is to create spinal cells, brain cells, specific ligament and tendon cells you could use these found chemical cues to hopefully transform ones own adult stem cells into useful tissues for themselves. For more legitamate info concerning this topic I would suggest searching www.pubmed.com and read through some of the general topic info available.

 

[zod]

Just in case anybody doesn't understand......... Embrionic Stem Cell research is NOT illegal, it just isn't going to be funded by our federal dollars anymore. Private firms can spend all the money they want to researching it.

Personally though, I'm of the belief that two wrongs do not make a right, so I cannot find any logical way for me personally to justify it. There is much more potential in adult stem cell research anyhow, which is where the private sector is spending more of it's resources.

 

[narlus]

There is much more potential in adult stem cell research anyhow, which is where the private sector is spending more of it's resources.

please show some numbers here. it is my understanding (which could be off) that adult stem cells can't differentiate to the same extent as embryonic ones, so their facility is limited.

 

[Toshi]

please show some numbers here. it is my understanding (which could be off) that adult stem cells can't differentiate to the same extent as embryonic ones, so their facility is limited.

this (that adult stem cells aren't pluripotent, and can't differentiate into all kinds of tissue) is definitely what is being taught to impressionable young scientists in biochemistry courses...

 

[narlus]

more please.

 

[Toshi]

here is some reading for those wishing to brush up on the various kinds of stem cells:

http://tinyurl.com/3md9j (it's a link to google search results)

 

[genpowell71]

Embrionic stem cell research = Good.

Finally something we both agree on

 

[Silver]

this (that adult stem cells aren't pluripotent, and can't differentiate into all kinds of tissue) is definitely what is being taught to impressionable young scientists in biochemistry courses...

Damn liberal biology professors...Darwin was just the beginning of a slippery slope...

 

[BurlyShirley]

I am against stem cell research.

 

[ohio]

I am against stem cell research.

but for molesting kittens.

 

[BurlyShirley]

but for molesting kittens.

I just think about all those poor little stem cells and how they're getting experimented on instead of being given a loving home. Stem cells have feelings too and its wrong to experiment on them just for our benefit as humans. We dont let stem cells do experiments on us? Humans are evil.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I just think about all those poor little stem cells and how they're getting experimented on instead of being given a loving home. Stem cells have feelings too and its wrong to experiment on them just for our benefit as humans. We dont let stem cells do experiments on us? Humans are evil.

I am wondering where PETA is on this issue?

 

[BurlyShirley]

I am wondering where PETA is on this issue?

I dunno. I just emailed them and asked how they felt about abortions for animals though. I hope they answer me. I used me .edu account so they should be interested to warp my young and impressionable mind by responding.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I dunno. I just emailed them and asked how they felt about abortions for animals though. I hope they answer me. I used me .edu account so they should be interested to warp my young and impressionable mind by responding.

Good call...

 

[golgiaparatus]

Where does the right stand on the rights of an unborn fetus from parents that are Islamic terrorists?
Is this fetus by default an enemy combatant?

Dude, thats fuhking genious! Bravo!

 

[nicklin]

I'm a strong believer in stem-cell research. If we don't give it a chance, we may very well miss that scientific break-through of the millenium......


BUT:

On the other hand, then we are playing God and mess with evolution.

Do we really need more people living on Earth?

 

[Toshi]

On the other hand, then we are playing God and mess with evolution.

Do we really need more people living on Earth?

why do we treat people for disease? many diseases are hereditary, or transmissible "vertically" (mother-child) or effect the germline (ditto + father-child). no one reasonable is calling for sterilization of these people...

 

[nicklin]

that's some of the diseases. but we know full well that any technology can be abused, and there will be people using this technology to enhance their longevity, without having reasonable need for it. Just look at the plastic surgery industry, where they started out making special cases for people who were disfigured in tragic accidents, but quickly turned into a beauty quester's weapon of choice.

What i'm saying is the technology will be abused ,and those who truly need it might not get it at all, at the way our social medical system is working today, we are much more likely to see rich people buying the technology so they can look young rather than saving lives.

I support it on a technological point of view, where it can be a great advance to aid in humna evolution, but the moral and socio-economical implication of the technology is alarming, because history has told us that humans are not very good at managing their gadetary.

like you said, some diseases are vertically transmitted. but how will these people get it if the main driving force behind the development of the technology is the coporate world? they are developing it for profit. they will be on a quest for most profit, which means they are unlikely to share it where it's needed most.

Nick

 

[Toshi]

like you said, some diseases are vertically transmitted. but how will these people get it if the main driving force behind the development of the technology is the coporate world? they are developing it for profit. they will be on a quest for most profit, which means they are unlikely to share it where it's needed most.

Nick

and this is why the NIH (aka the federal govt) should be funding the research. having big pharma and other corporate interests making, and controlling, the advances in stem cell research would be the most direct path to your imagined dystopia, imo.

 

[Silver]

and this is why the NIH (aka the federal govt) should be funding the research. having big pharma and other corporate interests making, and controlling, the advances in stem cell research would be the most direct path to your imagined dystopia, imo.

Socialist!

 

[Toshi]

Socialist!

basic science is one of the few areas in which i think the govt MUST be involved, as it's something that few companies, maybe IBM excepted, would invest in as the payoff is far down the road.

 

[Silver]

basic science is one of the few areas in which i think the govt MUST be involved, as it's something that few companies, maybe IBM excepted, would invest in as the payoff is far down the road.

It's a slippery slope, my friend. One must aspire to stay ideologically pure in this day and age

 

[genpowell71]

If it'll help, I would think that God, Buddha, Allah, or whatever relgious honcho I missed would be for it. But hey what the hell do I know about stem cell research.