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Strange Oranges... 225

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by dump, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. dump

    dump Turbo Monkey

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    Spotted these on Orange Bike's facebook page. Looks like they were taken at Ft. William. Our very own Fraser is on the raw version.

    Looks like a nice linkage-driven incarnation of the 224 with a few tweaks. Captions as listed on facebook.

    Discuss.

    225 Transcend Mag/Fraser


    225 Proto - Mojo/Stanny


    Cathros 225
     

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  2. RUFUS

    RUFUS e-douche of the year

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    The top on is Frasers, (transcend) I don't see too much of a difference in looks, what are the differences?
     
  3. AlCapone

    AlCapone Monkey

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    I believe those were in a Decline or Dirt a while back. I'm pretty sure the added linkage is to fit a bigger shock.
     
  4. dilzy

    dilzy Monkey

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    Absolute favourite bike the 224 if they had a progressive linkage. It appears that may come true. They look sooo nice.
     
  5. Leppah

    Leppah Turbo Monkey

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    Good lord the spring on that first one is teeny. Looks like one of my pubes.
     
  6. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

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    I spoke to Rowan Sorrell about the one he's been riding. Uber long shock, 3.5" stroke. Leverage ratio is somewhat progressive in the mid-stroke, but I mapped it out and it actually starts regressive up to the sag point, which is quite a unique trait. Rowan said this is to make the bike "sit" at its sag point. Interesting.
     
  7. - seb

    - seb Turbo Monkey

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    Hardly a new idea is it? Isn't this what VPPs basically do?
     
  8. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

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    Most leverage curve for VPP bikes that I've seen are very progressive up through the sag point. The Orange is the only one I've seen that looks like this (see below, and keep in mind this is Linkage - prone to error).

     
  9. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    Yep. Really, it's about all that most VPP layouts CAN do. It's a forced situation that the bikes have to deal with, there's not a lot that can be done to change the leverage rate from regressive to progressive with most VPP layouts.
     
  10. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    I think that you've got that reversed. Almost every VPP suspension that I've seen is regressive to progressive.
     
  11. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Wasn't the new rocky mountain flatline regressive?

    Still the 225 looks hot as hell.


    DW you mean virtual bikes as in the patented VPP and other designs that aren't so legal in the us ;) or the idea itself?
     
  12. Pslide

    Pslide Turbo Monkey

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    Well, I just used someone elses Linkage file for the V10, so maybe they didn't put in the points accurately (got to be careful with that program). I did the Strange myself though based on a side shot of Rowan's bike. I then sent it to him and he confirmed it was basically correct.

    I didn't realize that most VPPs were the same way...guess it's not unique.

    Still, Rowan made it sound like they'd designed it regressive initially on purpose (whether right or wrong). It would have been easy to design a linkage that didn't have that regressive rate initially, but they chose to do it that way... Maybe that's why it's called Strange.
     
  13. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    I think they look sweet. I'd love to try one out. Interesting that they changed the upper shock mount from the downtube to the top tube.
     
  14. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    I think that the Strange bike looks pretty good too. That bike will be even better than it is already with a properly working linkage system. I was really referring to the VPP bikes with shocks driven off the top link / swingarm, I have no idea about the other "illegal" ones.

    The new V10 could be different, I don't really know, but many of the Blurs, Nomads, VP frees, basically VPP bikes with shocks driven off the top link or swingarm have share this trait in the past.

    Either way, the Strange / Orange bike looks cool to me. I can't wait to throw a leg over one and ride it!
     
  15. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    Ok, so quick notes.

    The linkage is there in order to turn the shock curve. The 224 had some odd traits that this seeks to get rid of. It also allows for the long stroke shock to make the first bit of travel very plush to small bumps to allow for better traction. It does indeed sit into it's travel very nicely as someone mentioned. The past the sag point the bike ramps up very quickly due to the linkage, and the ramp can be tuned via the shock (in my case an Elka for now) or with different linkages that Orange is having us try.

    There are a few bugs to work out still (it's LONG), but so far I have about 30 runs or so on the bike at Ft William, Willingen and Maribor.

    if you look closely, you'll notice they are all slightly different sizing. ie: I have no gusset, stanny has a small one, ben has a massive one.

    Initial impressions are really good. I think Ben will be racing his this weekend as he finally has had some time on it. Joe Barnes may be on it, and Stanny will be riding his 224 as he has not had more than 2-3 runs on his Strange yet.

    Dave, come to Bromont, you are more than welcome to take mine for a ride.
     
  16. dw

    dw Wiffle Ball ninja

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    Hey come on down to Highland! It's so much closer for me.

    I've gotta come visit your general area pretty soon, so probably Bromont in a few weeks, can't wait.
     
  17. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    I will be at bromont all next week, then off to italy for 10 days, then back to bromont until ste anne and crankworx.
     
  18. Kanye West

    Kanye West 220# bag of hacktastic

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    Man if that thing isn't the textbook definition of an afterthought I don't know what is.
     
  19. lovebunny

    lovebunny can i lick your balls?

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    how so? seems like it was pretty well thought out to me
     
  20. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    don't mind him. He thinks he's the best engineer in the world and could build the best bike ever in the existence of downhill racing. (Un)fortunately for us, he doesn't think the mountain bike industry would be able to pay him enough money to make it worth his while. :wacko::pilot:
     
  21. Demomonkey

    Demomonkey Monkey

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    Strange is Orange's protype designation.

    A strange pink orange. Noice!
     
  22. Vrock

    Vrock Linkage Design Blog

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    The New VPP 2 Bikes are regressive to progressive but more "linear" than the previus generation, and the DH Bikes are different too, because the shock is attached to the lower link. The Intense M3 For example is Progressive through all the travel.

    VPP CAN do a lot of Things.
     
  23. Kanye West

    Kanye West 220# bag of hacktastic

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    I never said anything bad about the performance. Just looks like they slapped a linkage in there as well as they could with as little effort at all. Not that there's a problem with it. I'm sure it rides pretty damn well, as the original 224's rode fantastic to begin with.
     
  24. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    The idea was to do exactly that, on purpose. Take the stock 224, and add a linkage to be able to add a bigger shock stroke (lower leverage ratio for better traction) and to tune the shock curve and make it much more progressive.

    All of the Orange team riders love how the 224 rides, and love the geometry and low weight. Why add more crap than necessary? The swingarm on last years bike was actually designed for this bike, as was the adjustable headtube. The bike just didn't happen in time.

    Here is a slightly better image of mine, phone picture. At the moment I am waiting for a -2 deg headtube sleeve to slacken it out a bit and a slightly shorter swingarm to push the weight bias forward vs where it is now.
     
  25. NoUseForAName

    NoUseForAName Monkey

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    Orange = O (all round) Range
    Strange = Specific Technology Range.

    Some obscure Orange related jargon that i remember picking up years ago. Though that first one was back when the brand started.
     
  26. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    Strange is the Orange prototype division.
     
  27. cesar_rojo

    cesar_rojo Monkey

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    Hey Fraser! Nice ride, hehe! If you want to put more weight on the front put a longer chainstay not shorter, if you make it sorter your feet are going to be more closer to rear wheel so more weight there ;)
     
  28. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Just for fun I went and looked up the olds posts where you were defending the single-pivot orange designs to the death.
     
    #28 -   Jun 24, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  29. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    Just for fun, you may want to open your eyes and notice that it is still a single pivot. :blink:
     
  30. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    Ya, not describing what I mean very well. Weight further back is more or less what i mean, making the bike easier to pop off the ground.
     
  31. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    No, you were defending the fact that it didn't have linkages and was "simpler" than a linkage bike. You don't want me to post your quotes. It always was a goofy design, it still is a goofy design. If they're concerned about traction, why have the pivot so high? I guess everyone just coasts when they ride downhill? Still wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.
     
  32. time-bomb

    time-bomb Monkey

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    Just curious, what does the pivot location have to do with traction? It determines the wheel path and the linkage would influence the traction more, correct? Also, high pivot designs seem to more and more common now for their ability to absorb large square edge hits and not get hung up on them. The trend also seems to be that the pivot location is moving further back, either above or slightly behind the bottom bracket. Is the issue that the pivot is forward or that it is high? Again, just curious since this seems to be a pretty popular design.
     
  33. Ian Collins

    Ian Collins Turbo Monkey

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    looks cool but am i a prick if i say, wow! welcome to 1999....its about time!?!?!?
     
  34. RUFUS

    RUFUS e-douche of the year

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    Those are some gorgeous decals :)
     
  35. trib

    trib not worthy of a Rux.

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    maybe its British pride but i have always loved orange bikes, people can talk trash about the design as much as they want but its still one of the most proven bikes at world cup level.
     
  36. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    When you pedal, the force generated will oppose the suspension. So it's going to "stiffen up", in other words "lose traction".

    Show me all these other bikes with the main pivot well above the chainline.
     
  37. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Don't want to sound like a smartass but you don't really pedal in places with bad traction anyway so loosing traction while pedaling is rarely a problem. The biggest issue has always been traction in corners and I can't seem to remember when I last pedaled in a corner.


    Fraser I hope when the your bike will be closer to production version you will give us a fuller review.
     
  38. Transcend

    Transcend My Nuts Are Flat

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    Don't mind him, he doesn't actually ride bikes, he just complains about them online.

    There will be a few more changes coming before they get everything nailed down I am sure, look for a few different iterations floating around this summer at races.
     
  39. rayhaan

    rayhaan Monkey

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    I personally love the look of the new Orange/Strange/225 whatever its current name is. looks the business. Plus Fraser, your bike looks sick. would love to have a spin on one.
     
  40. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    Yes, I was wrong. All we ever do is coast downhill.