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Strange Oranges... 225

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Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
5,525
342
Spotted these on Orange Bike's facebook page. Looks like they were taken at Ft. William. Our very own Fraser is on the raw version.

Looks like a nice linkage-driven incarnation of the 224 with a few tweaks. Captions as listed on facebook.

Discuss.

225 Transcend Mag/Fraser


225 Proto - Mojo/Stanny


Cathros 225
 

RUFUS

e-douche of the year
Dec 1, 2006
3,487
0
Denver, CO
The top on is Frasers, (transcend) I don't see too much of a difference in looks, what are the differences?
 

dilzy

Monkey
Sep 7, 2008
567
1
Absolute favourite bike the 224 if they had a progressive linkage. It appears that may come true. They look sooo nice.
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I spoke to Rowan Sorrell about the one he's been riding. Uber long shock, 3.5" stroke. Leverage ratio is somewhat progressive in the mid-stroke, but I mapped it out and it actually starts regressive up to the sag point, which is quite a unique trait. Rowan said this is to make the bike "sit" at its sag point. Interesting.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
0
UK
it actually starts regressive up to the sag point, which is quite a unique trait. Rowan said this is to make the bike "sit" at its sag point. Interesting.
Hardly a new idea is it? Isn't this what VPPs basically do?
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,944
0
MV
Hardly a new idea is it? Isn't this what VPPs basically do?
Yep. Really, it's about all that most VPP layouts CAN do. It's a forced situation that the bikes have to deal with, there's not a lot that can be done to change the leverage rate from regressive to progressive with most VPP layouts.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,944
0
MV
Most leverage curve for VPP bikes that I've seen are very progressive up through the sag point. The Orange is the only one I've seen that looks like this (see below, and keep in mind this is Linkage - prone to error).

I think that you've got that reversed. Almost every VPP suspension that I've seen is regressive to progressive.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,663
385
Warsaw :/
Wasn't the new rocky mountain flatline regressive?

Still the 225 looks hot as hell.


DW you mean virtual bikes as in the patented VPP and other designs that aren't so legal in the us ;) or the idea itself?
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
I think that you've got that reversed. Almost every VPP suspension that I've seen is regressive to progressive.
Well, I just used someone elses Linkage file for the V10, so maybe they didn't put in the points accurately (got to be careful with that program). I did the Strange myself though based on a side shot of Rowan's bike. I then sent it to him and he confirmed it was basically correct.

I didn't realize that most VPPs were the same way...guess it's not unique.

Still, Rowan made it sound like they'd designed it regressive initially on purpose (whether right or wrong). It would have been easy to design a linkage that didn't have that regressive rate initially, but they chose to do it that way... Maybe that's why it's called Strange.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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I think they look sweet. I'd love to try one out. Interesting that they changed the upper shock mount from the downtube to the top tube.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,944
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MV
Wasn't the new rocky mountain flatline regressive?

Still the 225 looks hot as hell.


DW you mean virtual bikes as in the patented VPP and other designs that aren't so legal in the us ;) or the idea itself?
I think that the Strange bike looks pretty good too. That bike will be even better than it is already with a properly working linkage system. I was really referring to the VPP bikes with shocks driven off the top link / swingarm, I have no idea about the other "illegal" ones.

Well, I just used someone elses Linkage file for the V10, so maybe they didn't put in the points accurately (got to be careful with that program). I did the Strange myself though based on a side shot of Rowan's bike. I then sent it to him and he confirmed it was basically correct.

I didn't realize that most VPPs were the same way...guess it's not unique.

Still, Rowan made it sound like they'd designed it regressive initially on purpose (whether right or wrong). It would have been easy to design a linkage that didn't have that regressive rate initially, but they chose to do it that way... Maybe that's why it's called Strange.
The new V10 could be different, I don't really know, but many of the Blurs, Nomads, VP frees, basically VPP bikes with shocks driven off the top link or swingarm have share this trait in the past.

Either way, the Strange / Orange bike looks cool to me. I can't wait to throw a leg over one and ride it!
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Ok, so quick notes.

The linkage is there in order to turn the shock curve. The 224 had some odd traits that this seeks to get rid of. It also allows for the long stroke shock to make the first bit of travel very plush to small bumps to allow for better traction. It does indeed sit into it's travel very nicely as someone mentioned. The past the sag point the bike ramps up very quickly due to the linkage, and the ramp can be tuned via the shock (in my case an Elka for now) or with different linkages that Orange is having us try.

There are a few bugs to work out still (it's LONG), but so far I have about 30 runs or so on the bike at Ft William, Willingen and Maribor.

if you look closely, you'll notice they are all slightly different sizing. ie: I have no gusset, stanny has a small one, ben has a massive one.

Initial impressions are really good. I think Ben will be racing his this weekend as he finally has had some time on it. Joe Barnes may be on it, and Stanny will be riding his 224 as he has not had more than 2-3 runs on his Strange yet.

Dave, come to Bromont, you are more than welcome to take mine for a ride.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,944
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MV
Dave, come to Bromont, you are more than welcome to take mine for a ride.
Hey come on down to Highland! It's so much closer for me.

I've gotta come visit your general area pretty soon, so probably Bromont in a few weeks, can't wait.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Hey come on down to Highland! It's so much closer for me.

I've gotta come visit your general area pretty soon, so probably Bromont in a few weeks, can't wait.
I will be at bromont all next week, then off to italy for 10 days, then back to bromont until ste anne and crankworx.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,460
173
Man if that thing isn't the textbook definition of an afterthought I don't know what is.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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how so? seems like it was pretty well thought out to me
don't mind him. He thinks he's the best engineer in the world and could build the best bike ever in the existence of downhill racing. (Un)fortunately for us, he doesn't think the mountain bike industry would be able to pay him enough money to make it worth his while. :wacko::pilot:
 

Vrock

Linkage Design Blog
Aug 13, 2005
263
35
Spain
Yep. Really, it's about all that most VPP layouts CAN do. It's a forced situation that the bikes have to deal with, there's not a lot that can be done to change the leverage rate from regressive to progressive with most VPP layouts.
The New VPP 2 Bikes are regressive to progressive but more "linear" than the previus generation, and the DH Bikes are different too, because the shock is attached to the lower link. The Intense M3 For example is Progressive through all the travel.

VPP CAN do a lot of Things.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,460
173
I never said anything bad about the performance. Just looks like they slapped a linkage in there as well as they could with as little effort at all. Not that there's a problem with it. I'm sure it rides pretty damn well, as the original 224's rode fantastic to begin with.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
The idea was to do exactly that, on purpose. Take the stock 224, and add a linkage to be able to add a bigger shock stroke (lower leverage ratio for better traction) and to tune the shock curve and make it much more progressive.

All of the Orange team riders love how the 224 rides, and love the geometry and low weight. Why add more crap than necessary? The swingarm on last years bike was actually designed for this bike, as was the adjustable headtube. The bike just didn't happen in time.

Here is a slightly better image of mine, phone picture. At the moment I am waiting for a -2 deg headtube sleeve to slacken it out a bit and a slightly shorter swingarm to push the weight bias forward vs where it is now.
 

NoUseForAName

Monkey
Mar 26, 2008
481
0
Orange = O (all round) Range
Strange = Specific Technology Range.

Some obscure Orange related jargon that i remember picking up years ago. Though that first one was back when the brand started.
 

cesar_rojo

Monkey
Feb 29, 2008
175
21
The idea was to do exactly that, on purpose. Take the stock 224, and add a linkage to be able to add a bigger shock stroke (lower leverage ratio for better traction) and to tune the shock curve and make it much more progressive.

All of the Orange team riders love how the 224 rides, and love the geometry and low weight. Why add more crap than necessary? The swingarm on last years bike was actually designed for this bike, as was the adjustable headtube. The bike just didn't happen in time.

Here is a slightly better image of mine, phone picture. At the moment I am waiting for a -2 deg headtube sleeve to slacken it out a bit and a slightly shorter swingarm to push the weight bias forward vs where it is now.
Hey Fraser! Nice ride, hehe! If you want to put more weight on the front put a longer chainstay not shorter, if you make it sorter your feet are going to be more closer to rear wheel so more weight there ;)
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,608
1,971
AK
All of the Orange team riders love how the 224 rides, and love the geometry and low weight. Why add more crap than necessary? The swingarm on last years bike was actually designed for this bike, as was the adjustable headtube. The bike just didn't happen in time.
Just for fun I went and looked up the olds posts where you were defending the single-pivot orange designs to the death.
 
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Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Hey Fraser! Nice ride, hehe! If you want to put more weight on the front put a longer chainstay not shorter, if you make it sorter your feet are going to be more closer to rear wheel so more weight there ;)
Ya, not describing what I mean very well. Weight further back is more or less what i mean, making the bike easier to pop off the ground.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,608
1,971
AK
Just for fun, you may want to open your eyes and notice that it is still a single pivot.
No, you were defending the fact that it didn't have linkages and was "simpler" than a linkage bike. You don't want me to post your quotes. It always was a goofy design, it still is a goofy design. If they're concerned about traction, why have the pivot so high? I guess everyone just coasts when they ride downhill? Still wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.
 

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
954
11
right here -> .
No, you were defending the fact that it didn't have linkages and was "simpler" than a linkage bike. You don't want me to post your quotes. It always was a goofy design, it still is a goofy design. If they're concerned about traction, why have the pivot so high? I guess everyone just coasts when they ride downhill? Still wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot pole.
Just curious, what does the pivot location have to do with traction? It determines the wheel path and the linkage would influence the traction more, correct? Also, high pivot designs seem to more and more common now for their ability to absorb large square edge hits and not get hung up on them. The trend also seems to be that the pivot location is moving further back, either above or slightly behind the bottom bracket. Is the issue that the pivot is forward or that it is high? Again, just curious since this seems to be a pretty popular design.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,170
96
maybe its British pride but i have always loved orange bikes, people can talk trash about the design as much as they want but its still one of the most proven bikes at world cup level.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,608
1,971
AK
Just curious, what does the pivot location have to do with traction? .
When you pedal, the force generated will oppose the suspension. So it's going to "stiffen up", in other words "lose traction".

Show me all these other bikes with the main pivot well above the chainline.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,663
385
Warsaw :/
When you pedal, the force generated will oppose the suspension. So it's going to "stiffen up", in other words "lose traction".

Show me all these other bikes with the main pivot well above the chainline.
Don't want to sound like a smartass but you don't really pedal in places with bad traction anyway so loosing traction while pedaling is rarely a problem. The biggest issue has always been traction in corners and I can't seem to remember when I last pedaled in a corner.


Fraser I hope when the your bike will be closer to production version you will give us a fuller review.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Don't want to sound like a smartass but you don't really pedal in places with bad traction anyway so loosing traction while pedaling is rarely a problem. The biggest issue has always been traction in corners and I can't seem to remember when I last pedaled in a corner.


Fraser I hope when the your bike will be closer to production version you will give us a fuller review.
Don't mind him, he doesn't actually ride bikes, he just complains about them online.

There will be a few more changes coming before they get everything nailed down I am sure, look for a few different iterations floating around this summer at races.
 

rayhaan

Monkey
Oct 18, 2007
523
0
ireland
I personally love the look of the new Orange/Strange/225 whatever its current name is. looks the business. Plus Fraser, your bike looks sick. would love to have a spin on one.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,608
1,971
AK
Don't want to sound like a smartass but you don't really pedal in places with bad traction anyway so loosing traction while pedaling is rarely a problem. The biggest issue has always been traction in corners and I can't seem to remember when I last pedaled in a corner.


Fraser I hope when the your bike will be closer to production version you will give us a fuller review.
Yes, I was wrong. All we ever do is coast downhill.