Anyone ride a fork with the Stratos ID Cartridges yet?
Just hoping to get some comments on it, it looks nice.
Just hoping to get some comments on it, it looks nice.
Stratos ID Cartidges?
- Thread starter Evel Monkey
- Start date
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bighitfsr
Guest
Never tried the ID carts but they look pretty promising.
I thought I'd post some of the info I got from the link and the install instructions for a shiver.
You can currently get them for:
- Stratos forks
- 2002 - 2004 boxxer
- Shiver DC
- Fox Forx
- Marz Z1
- Marz Marathon S
Apparently they have dorado and psylo kits being developed.
From what I can tell the ID cart is an open bath damper with adjustable rebound and 2 compression circuts. One circut with an intertia valve and a very stiff compression setting and another high speed compression circut. The ID cart replaces the rebound damper. The ID cart is custom valved for the rider also.
Unlike the mojo cartridge the ID is slim enough to fit a spring around it (at least for the shiver, no instructions online for the boxxer). I have expirience with the Mojo Boxcart and found that you cant get stiff enough springs for riders over 180lbs. Also the mojo boxcart isnt custom tuned for the rider like the ID.
Whats interesting is that the upgrade is being offered on forks that allready have good dampers (marz, fox, dorado). If the ID is a performance upgrade for these forks you'd think it would have to be pretty good.
I thought I'd post some of the info I got from the link and the install instructions for a shiver.
You can currently get them for:
- Stratos forks
- 2002 - 2004 boxxer
- Shiver DC
- Fox Forx
- Marz Z1
- Marz Marathon S
Apparently they have dorado and psylo kits being developed.
From what I can tell the ID cart is an open bath damper with adjustable rebound and 2 compression circuts. One circut with an intertia valve and a very stiff compression setting and another high speed compression circut. The ID cart replaces the rebound damper. The ID cart is custom valved for the rider also.
Unlike the mojo cartridge the ID is slim enough to fit a spring around it (at least for the shiver, no instructions online for the boxxer). I have expirience with the Mojo Boxcart and found that you cant get stiff enough springs for riders over 180lbs. Also the mojo boxcart isnt custom tuned for the rider like the ID.
Whats interesting is that the upgrade is being offered on forks that allready have good dampers (marz, fox, dorado). If the ID is a performance upgrade for these forks you'd think it would have to be pretty good.
I might get one if they made it for a 99 z1....but they don't 
I wonder if they offer them on their own forks- it honestly doesn't looke like it. Stratos needs to come out with some new forks....i like their new website.
I wonder if they offer them on their own forks- it honestly doesn't looke like it. Stratos needs to come out with some new forks....i like their new website.
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bighitfsr
Guest
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-87218.html
See "punkassean" comments at the bottom of this link.
See "punkassean" comments at the bottom of this link.
they are available for all stratos forks.Sandwich said:I might get one if they made it for a 99 z1....but they don't
I wonder if they offer them on their own forks- it honestly doesn't looke like it. Stratos needs to come out with some new forks....i like their new website.
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bighitfsr
Guest
"I wonder if they offer them on their own forks- it honestly doesn't looke like it"
Its an option on the stratos forks.
It cost an extra $250 which is the same price as the kit for all the non-stratos forks.
The stratos' fork chassis and seals are not the greatest anyway (3-pc lowers, heavy, zero offset axle).
If you wanted a ID damped fork I'd throw an ID cart in either a Boxxer Race or a fox talas/vanillia R as they are nice light weight stiff fork chassis with bottom of the range internals (since the stock internals are going to be removed). You may also be able to fit these to a Marz DJ since they are very similar to a Z1.
Its an option on the stratos forks.
It cost an extra $250 which is the same price as the kit for all the non-stratos forks.
The stratos' fork chassis and seals are not the greatest anyway (3-pc lowers, heavy, zero offset axle).
If you wanted a ID damped fork I'd throw an ID cart in either a Boxxer Race or a fox talas/vanillia R as they are nice light weight stiff fork chassis with bottom of the range internals (since the stock internals are going to be removed). You may also be able to fit these to a Marz DJ since they are very similar to a Z1.
How well does it work on a shiver or boxxer? just curious if any of you monkeys have them installed on your forks. What performance boosts did you notice?bighitfsr said:
From what I understand by reading their site is that they will retrofit the cartridge to any fork. In fact, if you are the first person to send them a fork they have not done yet, you will get 25% off the $250 price.
Available doesn't mean standard equipment....IMO stratos needs to get back in the game, a good way to do that would be to start building forks with the ID damper in them already....maybe I'm just bad at destroying my own company 
Anyways, that is why I said they need to make some new forks...they're still building forks based on technology from 98...which is good, but not competitive with today's standards.
Anyways, that is why I said they need to make some new forks...they're still building forks based on technology from 98...which is good, but not competitive with today's standards.
Does anybody else think it's weird that people would want to replace their Marzocchi guts with Stratos engineering? Maybe if Stratos made a rear shock upgrade kit....
James | Go-Ride said:
amazing what a little common sense can do eh?
i was thinking along the same lines but couldnt quite phrase it...
Well, I don't know what it's worth but I'm damn happy with my Mojo kit for my boxxer.
With one yellow spring, 20w in the damper let, and lube in the other. Its lighter than hell and the perfect race fork. I can run 10-15w for faster courses or if I'm not bottoming it, so I can get full travel.
My only problem is I still need new legs and seals as I'm still running a '01 fork and the bushing and legs have alot of wear on them.
With one yellow spring, 20w in the damper let, and lube in the other. Its lighter than hell and the perfect race fork. I can run 10-15w for faster courses or if I'm not bottoming it, so I can get full travel.
My only problem is I still need new legs and seals as I'm still running a '01 fork and the bushing and legs have alot of wear on them.
perhaps because they aren't Stratos guts, but inertia valves?
I just wanted to post my setting for the others out there running Mojo kit's, I forgot to list my weight however (165lbs).
I'm with ya on the Inertia Valve, I don't think it would work very good for DH use. But I would like to try it out sometime.
I'm with ya on the Inertia Valve, I don't think it would work very good for DH use. But I would like to try it out sometime.
Stratos dropped the price on the ID cartridge upgrade. Its 25% reduction if you send your fork in (a savings of ~ 60 and some change)... but shipping your fork both ways will be around 40 for the lower 48.... not much savings, but might be worth it to have them install it for you while you can sit back & relax.bighitfsr said:
I'm assuming it's just a matter of time before their forks are sold with the ID cartridge. I'm also hoping they trash that whole S7-style fork design.
Is this something that might be applicable to the SID fork? I know it's not the XC forum, but thought it might make a good upgrade, something to compete with the fox terralogic forks...
0cool
0cool
while it might be good competition to the fox terralogic, a sid is already not a super-active fork with it's air-spring, and it's extremely light as well. I don't think it would make much sense because a SID doesn't really bob much at all. On a coil RS psylo or coil black fork, it might be a good idea though...ZeroCool said:
For all of you who are interested in the Stratos ID cartridge for the Boxxer, I will be able to give you a good early review in the next few days. I sent in a 2004 Boxxer a little over a week ago (as soon as I saw the kit on their website was available for the Boxxer) and it is fitted and on its way back home. I should be riding on it this weekend and I'll let you guys know how it goes. I am very curious to see how the inertia valve will affect its performance in braking, steeps, and cornering. My main concern is smallish bump performance and ride hieght being to high while cornering. If all else fails you can (hopefully) just remove the inertia valve assembly and get an awesome open bath moto cartridge set-up just like the 888, Shiver, Fox DH etc... IMO Stratos makes awesome fork internals and forks but there "chassis" are somewhat heavy and not as sexy, stiff and light as the "chassis" of the Boxxer. I'll have a full (preliminary) review as soon as I get some ride time on it. You guys will be the first to know.
There's something about Inertia valving that makes me dubious. I guess i really need to ride it to get a real opinion. But the idea that the fork won't work consistently is what bothers me, will it or won't it react over bumps, that sort of thing.
I emailed them to see if they could send out a loaner cart to try out in a boxxer. They have as of yet, not responded.
I honestly dont see why people are intent on changing things up in perfectly good forks, but I'll try anything in the name of testing.
Also, inertia valves on DH forks are a lame idea.
I honestly dont see why people are intent on changing things up in perfectly good forks, but I'll try anything in the name of testing.
Also, inertia valves on DH forks are a lame idea.
See i am giving them a second shot here being even willing to try one. Any of their products i have touched up until this point have been absolute garbage. INternals, externals, designs, seals..you name it. If stratos made it, it sucked.E.T. said:IMO Stratos makes awesome fork internals and forks but there "chassis" are somewhat heavy and not as sexy, stiff and light as the "chassis" of the Boxxer. I'll have a full (preliminary) review as soon as I get some ride time on it. You guys will be the first to know.
vWhy not? I think this is why these cartridges are being invented and adapted...give new life to your old fork. Who offers a significant improvement in damper technology besides Manitou and Curnutt/Foes? Marzocchi is good, for damping, but they don't offer a valve setup that significantly improves pedaling.TWISTED said:You want to spend $250 on a cartridge for your 5 year old fork?
What should I do, buy a new Z1 and have it converted? I don't have that kind of money, do you? I'm certainly not going to buy a stratos, and I don't have the money to get a Sherman with SPV. The Minute is not quite what I want, and white bros doesn't offer a good single crown. I'm not satisfied with the performance of the Z1, so I don't see a very good reason to dump all that money on an improved version of the same fork. I already have the fork installed, have the disk adaptors, and have the steerer cut to the proper length.
Why would you want to convert a boxxer? My guess is the same reasons I want to convert my 5 year old fork.
I'm happy with mine too. How much oil do you run in your damper leg? I run 125 cc's of 5wt, and 75cc of 5wt in the spring leg. If i just run the spring leg with slick honey it makes some ugly noises, so i just suck it up and add a ~100g'sssaddict said:
I will constantly question the need for anti-pedalbob features on forks. I just rode 20-odd kilometres of paved surfaces on a SuperT equipped bike, and not once did fork movement bother me. Sure, it does move around a bit, but only when pedalling with sloppy style. To me, it just seems like a bit of a gimmick for most riding styles.Sandwich said:
not for an xc racer it isnt. For DH, itis completely pointless.
is the inertia valve similar to platform valving (I was under the influence that it was)? In which case I have to ask, why does anybody buy a Fifth Element or Curnutt shock? Why does anybody ride a Manitou Swinger over say, an Avalanche, which may offer superior damping but no SPV?Transcend said:
Not asking to be an ass, but I was under the impression that these shocks help bikes pedal better, and better pedaling means better setups for steep sections/jumps, faster sprints, and perhaps even has some positive effect on braking? That would be important on MY dh bike.
And I used to ride my 46lb schwinn S8 on the trail. I had a 2001 MR Dirt Fat4 fork on the front of it. I could, when using proper technique, get the fork not to bob at all on any climb. However, when it came to sprinting, there was no way in hell i could keep up with my friend's hardtail. Not only that, but if you could focus more on putting your effort through the pedals, rather than crouching right in front of the nose of your saddle, you can get up the climbs faster.Rik said:
Back to the point, we are talking about DH bikes, and climbs, for the most part, are irrelevant. However, sprints are not. Now if you had to pedal a bike that was bouncing up and down with each pedal stroke (keep in mind we are racing, and not focusing on pedaling), or a bike that would automatically settle to a given point without moving far from it, allowing you to pedal without motion, which would be faster?
Of course, this is all moot for a backwoods rider not looking for a speed advantage, but I would say that less effort spent on reducing pedalling motion would allow more effort to be spent on pedalling, and therefore longer and more pleasurable ride times.
He is talking about forks not shocks.Sandwich said:
You can setup shocks like the 5th element to soak up all the small bumps and still take the big hits too.
But as far as forks go, I agree, it just seems pointless.
You need a fork that reacts as quickly as possible to the terrain so that it tracks the ground effectively. This is a much bigger concern for DHers than
if your fork bobs when you pedal. That pretty much means nothing on a real DH race course.
But you'd compromise the action of the fork to allow for better pedalling? We are talking about racing, where every small thing counts. Including bump absorbtion. Throw some fancy valving in to the equation, and surely something has to be compromised somewhere?Sandwich said:
Sprinting is an issue, but how much does fork bob slow down sprints? Compare that to things like rolling resistance, I don't think it's a huge deal at all.
Anyway, when you're sprinting, your upper body shouldn't be moving around too much. As soon as your upper body starts moving around, that's less effort going in to pedalling. Since we're racing, and worried about all the small things, wouldn't a bit of training for pedalling style/technique pay off as much as component selection? I say that coming from a road/track background, where the focus was on the rider, not the machine.
But I say all this as personally don't like the feel of SPV etc, and would rather my fast reacting and predictable Marzocchi/Fox combo over an SPV setup. I might try it out on my own bike, and see how it goes, I understand how much body weight and riding style can change things with shock setup, but riding other peoples bikes I'm yet to be convinced 100%.
My understanding of inertia valving is from the Fox adverts for their "terralogic" system, so it may not be the best understanding. But anyway, the "inertia" name is because it relies on the inertia of a sprung brass mass to control damping. Hit a bump, brass weight moves, oil is allowed to flow. Push down on the bike, and weight stays in its position, shock is locked out. Reviews of it (I'd love to try it myself though) say this sort of system is somewhat unpredictable, I've heard one person tell me you still feel the front side of the bump as the shock is locked out, but it'll be active on the back side of the bump, and then lock out again after a short delay. Sounds like something that'd be noticeable when riding, and the concept of that doesn't do anything for me at all. As I said, I'd rather a predictable feeling bike, and not knowing how the bike will react on each lump and bump doesn't sound like fun to me.Sandwich said:
But the above isn't based on first hand use, like always I'd really like to try it out on my own bike set up for my own weight and style, but alas that's just a dream for now.
That's interesting....Now we need a guinea pig to test it out. I can understand your POV, not compromising fork performance is essential. I think the inertia valve is the same concept on the Specialized brain shock....and I'm not fully behind that. The only comment I have is that if what SPV has done for the rear could also boost the front, the benefits IMO would be immense.
Keep in mind that stratos has liscensing rights to the original inertia valve technology, and fox is using a knockoff. Perhaps this may have better performance.
Keep in mind that stratos has liscensing rights to the original inertia valve technology, and fox is using a knockoff. Perhaps this may have better performance.
Very good point...but this is downhill racing we are talking about. Performance of your bike is a VERY big factor of how fast you can go. Especially anything related to suspension, rolling resistance, efficient pedaling, and braking. Something as simple as a proper working powerful brakeset can make a huge reduction in arm pump and make you able to go that much faster especialliy when the courses are long and rough (Idaho, NorthStar, Fort Bill). The whole idea with the ID cartridge is to be the most efficient fork and to provide high quality damping/ bump absorbtion at the same time. I talked to Mike, one of the stratos tech guys and he said that they can set up the inertia valve to open up on as small as a half inch tall bump (this is how I'm getting mine set up). IMO if you need your fork to work on a bump smaller than this then you're wack. That's what you're tires are for, eliminating high frequency vibrations from very small bumps and keeping the knobbies biting. Believe me I am very critical when it comes to reviewing things and if it doesn't perform better than what's out there you will know. The biggest thing that I will be testing it for is its consistincy and ability to suck up bumps. If I notice any hesitation/ wacky fork action I will let you know. I'm very curious to see what it does over jumps...Rik said:
Good reply E.T. I like how you know what you want to achive with the upgrade. I will be looking forward to a subjective review after some good live testing.
E.T. FYI: Mike owns the company and operates it with is wife Katherine. I agree that setting up the cartridge to be super sensitive is key. When I first rode a TALAS with the Stratos cartridge at Sea otter, it felt too locked-out and it didn't react fast enough to bumps. However I rode the same fork again but dialed in better (later protoype) about a month later and was much more impressed by the feel of it, it seemed to be fully locked out until the instant you hit a bump of any size when it would effortlessly open up and become fully active. For the doubters of applying this technology to DH, consider that Ricor (the owner of the patents that Stratos licenses) is currently prototyping a super high quality off-road racing shock absorber for Trophy trucks as we speak. There really would be no downside to applying this type of technology for DH but it would have to work flawlessly, otherwise it would hinder more than it would help. As far as jumping, the TALAS fork I rode is owned by my friend Trevor who works for Stratos and he is first and foremost a BMX'er and he jumps a bunch on his Stratos/TALAS FWIW...
E.T. said:
METAL FATIGUE.Sandwich said:
I had a '99 z1 qr20, bought it new in '99 for $450, great fork. I sold it to a guy starting out who needed a fork for $150 including the wheel. Now I have an '04 z1 fr eta.
My riding buddy kept his '00 mrT too long and had the crown crack apart. If you ride like us stuff wears out and eventially fails.
This cartridge upgrade kit sounds like a great idea for a JuniorT to me. If they made one I'd like to get one.
Have you considered the new '05 Manitou Nixon?
The kit for the Marathon might also work for your old z1 since their both 30mm Bombers.
There is a review on the Stratos ID cartridge on upcoming september issue of Mountain Bike Action... it might be somewhat useful despite MBA being somewhat biased. 