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Subbie geeks: Engine rebuild/upgrade options for 2003 2.5RS

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
So a co-worker is getting a rebuilt engine installed in his 2003 2.5RS. Here is the description from the shop doing the work.

the rebuild includes completely rebuilt heads, on all engines the heads are refaced as is the case for a clean head gasket mating surface for the new updated OEM multi layer steel head gaskets, the crank is re-ground and all new bearings are installed, also do to the high rod bearing failure rates on Subaru engines I use ACL race bearings which are a trimetal bearing made of steel, copper and nickel rather than aluminum which Subaru uses, these ACL bearings cost 4 times as much as a cheap aluminum bearing but they are worth it, on all engines the case is also bored 20 over and new pistons are installed, I will not hone and reuse old pistons, if a engine has lost a rod bearing the shrapnel scores the cylinder and it needs to be bored, if a engine has been overheated it warps the cylinder and it needs to be bored and this is one of the reasons that I will not replace head gaskets alone besides the fact that the gasket mating surface on the block warps and you cannot resurface it without rebuilding the engine, all engines have a 12 month 12000 mile warranty.
Upgrades so far ar ARP hardware and 11mm oil pump. Are there any other upgrades you would recommend? This is NOT a race car, but a driver. Want reliability and drivability, not monster horsepower.

Since I am NOT a Subaru guy, I am asking the few monkeys that might have experience in this area to help a guy out. Thanks.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
everything that is offered is pretty much standard operational procedure when it comes to rebuilding an engine. seems good enough for a daily driver.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
That's what I thought, but if there was anything else, I wanted to be sure. I don't know Subaru's at all.
 

Burnt-Orange

Monkey
Jan 5, 2013
153
0
that's funny
just snow tires and weather tech floor mats
we get some real crap weather in Wisconsin
if you don't like my car that is fine by me
glad you were OK after you crashed your vet
one of the scariest things I remember was being a passenger in a ford ranger doing a 360 cheerio on an overpass because of black ice
I have no Idea how we ended up keep on going ,perfect accidental timing I guess
we should have totaled it
oh ya, our football team sucks so I can save you the time
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
Dood! A Subaru without a fart can is like a Honda without a HUGE ASS WING!

You're doing it wrong.

I can send you a vinyl sticker grab bag so you can pretend you are sponsored if that would help.
 

Tmsracing37

Chimp
Jan 24, 2007
86
0
Hagerstown/McConnellsburg
"ACL race bearings which are a trimetal bearing made of steel, copper and nickel rather than aluminum which Subaru uses, these ACL bearings cost 4 times as much as a cheap aluminum bearing"

Asked your buddy how much he's getting charged for those ACL race bearings. I have used them in a few VW 1.8L, 2.0 FSI/TSI, and couple 255 EJ engine builds and I can get a complete rod bearing set for 36-60 bucks. If he is charged 100+ bucks for just rod bearings, I would throw up a red flag on that charge.
 
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Burnt-Orange

Monkey
Jan 5, 2013
153
0
I can't drive like Colin Mcrae so you can keep your stickers
I have always been a rally fan, the tuner thing never worked for me
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
"ACL race bearings which are a trimetal bearing made of steel, copper and nickel rather than aluminum which Subaru uses, these ACL bearings cost 4 times as much as a cheap aluminum bearing"

Asked your buddy how much he's getting charged for those ACL race bearings. I have used them in a few VW 1.8L, 2.0 FSI/TSI, and couple 255 EJ engine builds and I can get a complete rod bearing set for 36-60 bucks. If he is charged 100+ bucks for just rod bearings, I would throw up a red flag on that charge.
The cost of the rebuild (I have no idea if this is a good deal, to me it seems WAY high) is $1500 with the ARP hardware ($200 option) and oil pump upgrade ($150 option).

My 327 build was $1300 with aluminum heads and an unlimited mileage lifetime warranty from Oregon Engine Rebuilders. They built 3 Toyota motors for me ($900 each) with the same warranty and none of them had issues.

$1500 just seems a bit crazy just for a long block.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
I can't drive like Colin Mcrae so you can keep your stickers
I have always been a rally fan, the tuner thing never worked for me
The sound of the boxer engine is awful to me. Sounds like is has a miss and is only made worse by adding a fart can. I like a smooth sounding engine.

And nobody can drive like Colin McRae. He could whoop as in a stock Yaris.
 

Tmsracing37

Chimp
Jan 24, 2007
86
0
Hagerstown/McConnellsburg
His description is sort of vague. Without seeing bill of sale I couldn’t truly say, so will I assume and give estimates based on current market rates.
He states the builder is resurfacing and cleaning the head, no mention of port work and/or no upgraded valvetrain. If the heads are/were short, then there might be some money tied up in labor and parts. I.E. replacing valve guides, seats, and re-cutting of original valves, then shimming the valve springs for proper pressures. Depending if parts are needed (Assuming that no aftermarket valve train parts are use) it could be between $100-300, if aftermarket parts are used, you can add $200-800 to that. Usually with a lot 4 cylinders engines aftermarket valve sets start at $160-240 for exhaust valves, and $180-300 for intake valves. Most valve spring kits are around $250-400 Lets not talk cams, in some markets cams run $1200-1400.
He’s also states that builder is going to turn the crank journals($50 in labor) and replace the pistons ($350-650) mainly due to boring of cylinders (which with included decking, the machine work of the block will probably run him $100-250) So assuming he reusing the stock rods, the builder might still have to balance the rotating assembly somewhat. Probably $ 50-80 in labor for that. Although, I will say for that price, upgraded rods should be included into that rotating assembly.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
So the rebuilder advertises on CL, but the Subaru dealership that my co-worker uses also uses this rebuilder and the dealership will do the install.

Again, this isn't a monster hp or turbo or anything motor, just a driver and he wants it to be as reliable as possible. I copied the rebuilders ad in the original post, so whatever the ad says is what is expected. The dealership stands behind the 12/12000 warranty, so that is a plus.

I just figured if there was an additional "while you're at it..." type item, it would be addressed, but it sounds like a clean build and a solid platform. Thanks for the feedback and stuff. :cheers:
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,519
7,068
Colorado
So the rebuilder advertises on CL, but the Subaru dealership that my co-worker uses also uses this rebuilder and the dealership will do the install.

Again, this isn't a monster hp or turbo or anything motor, just a driver and he wants it to be as reliable as possible. I copied the rebuilders ad in the original post, so whatever the ad says is what is expected. The dealership stands behind the 12/12000 warranty, so that is a plus.

I just figured if there was an additional "while you're at it..." type item, it would be addressed, but it sounds like a clean build and a solid platform. Thanks for the feedback and stuff. :cheers:
I'm assuming that all of the belts are being replaced at the same time?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
I'm assuming that all of the belts are being replaced at the same time?
No, the belts and hoses will be sanded smooth and reused.

<edit> Did you miss the part about the "Subaru Dealership is doing the install"?

I'm not doing it, or I would reuse everything.

As a side note:
My daughters friends dad said:
My Toyota Tacoma has 140k miles on it and I've only changed the oil twice. It will run forever.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,852
9,557
AK
q
Dood! A Subaru without a fart can is like a Honda without a HUGE ASS WING!

You're doing it wrong.

I can send you a vinyl sticker grab bag so you can pretend you are sponsored if that would help.
Mine sounded different. I had a Borla exhaust and with the unequal length headers and I guess combo of the downpipe I was using, it just sounded like a freaking earthquake. It growled and rumbled lower than most V8-types I encountered. Enough so the cashier at taco-bell was looking left and right for the source when I was pulled up to the window. Most of the performance exhausts I see don't sound the same as it, when revved they get sharper and less "deep", but this one was different for some reason. If I got the same car again, I'd get that same exhaust. It wasn't as flat out loud as some, but it made up for it in being crazy deep and rumbling.

If you go to equal length headers, that just turns the exhaust note back into a honda-lawnmower sound.

Definitely replace the timing belt, tensioner, and water pump. Those are a "while I have the engine apart" item for sure, and they do wear out. Alt and AC belts are stupid-simple to do on your own when they start to slip or get worn.

Also, when I replaced my timing belt, one quirk about the subies is that the steering hose NEVER seals back, despite having that clamp on it. Air works it's way in and your steering gets all screwed up. If it seals good, air will work it's way out usually, but you can purge it with the car up on stands and moving the wheels back and forth (look up the procedure). I used a second adjustable clamp on it, and the problem went away quick. It's one of those things that you can disconnect, and it has a clamp, but when you put it back it NEVER goes back to the same integrity it had before, so it requires a different (tightenable) clamp. The OEM clamp is just an "on/off" type thing.

I kind of screwed up my coolant hose when I put it back too, not majorly, but it was kind of challenging to get "just right" with the angle and all, as it was in close proximity with the belt pulley. It was just too close and under some conditions the pulley ate into the hose and it would spray a little coolant. It was kind of hard to track down because it didn't always do it, but I found it by running it under load while watching. Replaced it myself in the parking lot of a subaru dealer in Sactown :) Probably made for an interesting surveillance video. If it's a non-turbo engine the space may not be as critical, or the hose may be "shaped" a little better to avoid this.
 
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