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Suck it, unions!! Oh this is getting good

stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,598
7,246
Colorado
Awesome. One small group of employees should not have the power to shut down revenues at a firm where hundreds of thousands rely on those revenues for employment.

Unions are understandable in high risk (ie coal mining, etc) jobs where leveraged negotiations can force safety enhancements. Beyond that, they are about protecting the jobs and inflated pay of those who can not keep their jobs (be it from quality, work ethic, etc) in a true market environment.
 
drkenan

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,441
1
west asheville
The Joker said:
Awesome. One small group of employees should not have the power to shut down revenues at a firm where hundreds of thousands rely on those revenues for employment.

Unions are understandable in high risk (ie coal mining, etc) jobs where leveraged negotiations can force safety enhancements. Beyond that, they are about protecting the jobs and inflated pay of those who can not keep their jobs (be it from quality, work ethic, etc) in a true market environment.
Click to expand...
FTMFW - Again!
 
boxxerace

boxxerace

Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
179
0
@ Japanese Gultch
Keep in mind that there are other reasons that Boeing is considering and maybe should, build another or new 787 line.

What we could be seeing is a hint that Boeing may be getting a nod to construct more 767's for the military or?...

The production line is already extra tight here in Everett as it is. The floor has be re-configured several times and there are at least three primary lines of production within one single building that overlap.

Nonetheless, I'd like to know what Washington State Democrats (basically the only party that exists in this state) are doing to ensure Boeing production sticks around here in Washington. They already did little when Boeing uprooted its headquarters from South Seattle, what will Governor Christine do this time around? (hint: Gobs of Rhetoric, little actual achievement).
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
767's for tankers?

I thought they were rebidding with 777's after the whole Airbus thing

767 is going the way of the do-do.

'87 has a huge backlog. They need another line. Airbus has a production line in China now.

It has to be done.

And if it keeps the whiney union in check, then all the better.

And The Lazy B already gets ****piles of tax credits for sticking around. It's not the government's fault if Boeing wants to leave.
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,598
7,246
Colorado
drkenan said:
FTMFW - Again!
Click to expand...
I have zero job security. I could be fired/let go at a moment's notice. Because of this uncertainty, I bust my ass everyday to stay ahead of th eguy next to me. In doing so, I have become extermely good at my job and one of the best at my company. They pay me accordingly.

Why? Because I have ZERO job security. I MUST be the best to keep my job.

There is a reason why competition works, and the cream rises to the top. CAll it workplace evolution if you like. If you can't cut it at your job, you don't deserve to be there.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Dun dun DUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNN...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009642640_boeing12.html

Boeing's S.C. workers to decide Sept. 10 whether to oust union

Production workers at Boeing's newly acquired assembly plant in Charleston, S.C., plan to vote Sept. 10 on a petition to get rid of the Machinists union.

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter


Production workers at Boeing's newly acquired assembly plant in Charleston, S.C., plan to vote Sept. 10 on a petition to get rid of the Machinists union.

At a National Labor Relations Board hearing Tuesday in Charleston, Boeing and the International Association of Machinists (IAM) agreed to the vote.

A decision to decertify the union at the Charleston plant could influence whether Boeing will move future airplane-assembly work there, including a second production line for its new 787 Dreamliner.

If the vote succeeds, nonunion Boeing Charleston will compete directly with the unionized Everett plant for the new 787 work. That raises the specter of Boeing for the first time developing a major final-assembly site on the East Coast that could siphon off production work on future airplanes from the Puget Sound region.

The petition that sparked the vote was filed by Dennis Murray, a quality inspector at the Charleston plant unhappy with the way the union forced through a weak contract last November without significant consultation with employees.

"I want people to have a fair voice in what happens to them," said Murray. "That's the position a union traditionally fights for. In this case, it's the workers fighting against the union to achieve that."

The union was not immediately able to say how many workers in the bargaining unit of almost 300 employees pay dues. Murray claimed more than 75 percent support for his petition, based on his own canvassing for signatures.

In the weeks ahead, Boeing will make its preference clear to the work force: Boeing management wants rid of the union at the plant.

Company labor-relations spokesman Tim Healy said managers will share "facts and data" with the work force outlining the differing treatment of unionized and nonunion workers at Boeing. "We'll tell them we prefer to deal with our employees directly, without an intermediary," Healy said.

IAM national aerospace coordinator Mark Blondin said the Charleston work force has the right to choose. He expressed confidence "they are going to choose the IAM."

"Facts don't lie," said Blondin. "Boeing does not treat nonunion workers well."

Last month, Boeing bought the plant, which builds the composite-plastic rear fuselage for the Dreamliner, from Texas-based Vought.

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The Charleston operation had been plagued with startup problems, partly due to the inexperienced work force. In addition, the long delays in the 787 program left Vought with no income stream and a need for further hefty investment it was unwilling to make.

To secure control of its supply chain, Boeing stepped in with a $580 million purchase, plus the forgiveness of loans to Vought that brought the total cost to $1 billion.

A major obstacle for the union is resentment of the existing contract with Vought. The agreement delivered a meager annual raise of 1.5 percent, with a possible merit bonus up to 2 percent determined by managers.

The IAM ratified that contract in a last-minute, barely publicized "emergency meeting" with only 13 people present, a year after the union was organized at the plant. Without a contract in place by that one-year anniversary, workers could have voted again on Machinists representation and potentially ousted the union.

Murray was one of the workers incensed by that tactic. The Boeing purchase offers a new opportunity to revisit the decision.

"The contract with Vought did not live up to many of those members' expectations," Blondin conceded. "Not everybody got to vote."

But he said the rushed vote was necessary because the company had dragged out negotiations deliberately to try to oust the union. He pointed out that the contract, however weak economically, secured recall rights for those workers being laid off. He said the union now has a right to improve the contract.

"We've got a great track record in negotiating contracts," Blondin said. "The leverage will depend on the people and how strong they want to be."

The showdown in Charleston is happening against a backdrop of tense negotiations between Boeing and the IAM in the Puget Sound region.

Last fall, the IAM signed a new four-year contract here after a two-month strike. Since then, Boeing has mounted an unprecedented behind-the-scenes campaign to reopen that contract and win a long-term no-strike agreement.

Boeing CEO Jim McNerney forcefully conveyed that message to state political representatives, including Gov. Chris Gregoire and Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Bremerton, in a March meeting in Washington, D.C.

He told them union relations would be a major factor in the decision where to put a second 787 production line; the head of the 787 program said the decision may be made before year-end.

At a conference in Lynnwood last week, Fred Kiga, a Boeing vice president, said a second final-assembly site outside the Puget Sound region would offer the company the opportunity to continue production in the event of a work stoppage here.

But industry analysts are skeptical Boeing would make its decision based on the union issue alone.

Creating an assembly line in Charleston would require substantial investment in tooling and buildings. And, the lack of an experienced work force would inevitably bring added risk to a program already more than two years behind schedule.

Blondin doubts Boeing would risk further delays by placing new 787 work outside the Puget Sound region.

"Is Boeing making an emotional decision or an economic decision?" Blondin asked rhetorically.

Still, if Boeing is insistent on eliminating its vulnerability to labor unrest, a win in the Sept. 10 vote would give it extra leverage.
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MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
So Charleston voted for no union. Now the WA state IAM union may have doomed themselves for good!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2010148300_boeing28.html

Boeing talks fall apart; S.C. likely to get 787 line

Discussions between the Machinists union and Boeing over the second 787 production line for Everett are effectively dead, according to a person familiar with the negotiations. Boeing now appears close to choosing Charleston, S.C., as the location of the second line. The person close to the negotiations said an announcement could come within days.

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter


North Charleston, S.C., is already the site of side-by-side factories that produce two-thirds of the fuselage for Boeing's 787 Dreamliner. The two plants are adjacent to Charleston International Airport.

North Charleston, S.C., is already the site of side-by-side factories that produce two-thirds of the fuselage for Boeing's 787 Dreamliner. The two plants are adjacent to Charleston International Airport.

Discussions between the Machinists union and Boeing over the second 787 production line for Everett are effectively dead, according to a person familiar with the negotiations.

Boeing now appears close to choosing Charleston, S.C., as the location of the second line. The person close to the negotiations said an announcement could come within days.

Boeing management has turned down further talks over the potential 10-year no-strike agreement the company had sought, the person said.

"The union wants to continue talking," said this source, who is not aligned with the union. "The Boeing Co. does not want to talk any further.

"The company is fairly close to being done, if not done already," the person said.

Boeing spokespeople could not be reached for comment late Tuesday.

Last week, company negotiators asked for a "best and final offer" from the International Association of Machinists (IAM). The company wasn't satisfied with the union proposal and talks stalled.

U.S. Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., intervened over the weekend, talking to each side separately and acting as a go-between, her office confirmed. Gov. Chris Gregoire and Aaron Reardon, Snohomish County executive, also made calls to both sides and tried to encourage compromise.

That led to further direct talks Saturday between Rich Michalski, the IAM's general vice president, and Tim Keating, Boeing's senior vice president for government operations.

In those talks, Michalski assured Keating the union was willing to give more than it previously had offered, and the union thought a deal was attainable, said the person familiar with the negotiations.

It's not known exactly how far the union had moved in its offer to the company since last week, when it sought an extended series of predetermined wage increases as part of a no-strike agreement.

The Boeing board met Monday and decided to postpone a decision by at least a few days.

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Meanwhile, in a special session of the South Carolina Legislature Tuesday, the Senate Finance Committee approved a lavish incentive package for Boeing if it chooses Charleston.

The proposed legislation, which does not mention Boeing by name, includes $170 million in upfront grants for startup costs, plus multiple tax breaks that would be worth tens of millions of dollars more.

The proposed legislation assumes the company will invest $750 million and create 3,800 new jobs in South Carolina within seven years — if it doesn't create that many jobs, it doesn't get any of the money.

That surprisingly large number suggests that if Charleston does win the second 787 line, Boeing will expand there quickly and add substantial work beyond the 787.

"That provision would not have been made up," Otis Rawl, chief executive of the South Carolina Chamber of Commerce, said in an interview Tuesday. "That came from the entity that's looking at the state. It's the number they anticipate creating."

Rawl said the incentives "go beyond what's normally offered."

"We hope that we create an environment where they want to be here for more than what we've talked about," Rawl said.

"We're doing everything we can to be in the game," he said. "We're putting $170 million on the table."

That's just the upfront money for infrastructure, buildings, equipment and training.

Other significant tax breaks mean Boeing won't have to pay sales tax on computer equipment, on building construction materials or on the aviation fuel it uses in test flights and aircraft delivery flights.

Under another provision, it will have virtually no corporate income-tax liability in the state for five years.

One advantage South Carolina has over Washington state in designing this package is that it is bidding purely for additional work that otherwise wouldn't exist, while Washington state is arguably trying to preserve existing jobs into the future.

Since a 787 line in Charleston would increase state revenue from payroll and sales taxes on the new work force and from an expected boost to the economy, Rawl said that over time it "will more than offset" the money South Carolina uses to woo Boeing.

Rawl said he expects the Legislature to pass the Finance Committee measure in special session today.

South Carolina officials are immensely secretive about economic-development-incentive negotiations.

Even now, with an incentive bill including a sales-tax break on jet fuel for test flights just a day shy of passage, Rawl did not name Boeing but referred only to "the entity that we both know we are talking about."

"It'll be off to the races tomorrow, pretty much. Everything will be done," Rawl said.

"This economic-development package, along with the decertification of the union in North Charleston, gives the entity all the indicators they need, I hope."

The person close to the talks between the union and the company said hope is fading fast for Washington state.

"The sun is certainly setting," he said.
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Andyman_1970

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Well speaking for my company, the only reason they keep the facility in Little Rock open is that we are non-union, we get the job done faster than our brethern in Wichita. We even send composite tech's to Wichita to work on their production lines as our folks actually work.

I spent quite a bit of time on the production line in ICT, the complexity and beauracracy (sp?) the union introduces to the manufacturing process is mind boggling. A job we can down down here in LR in 30 minutes (like like flare a tube for our APU installation) and takes one maintenance tech. In ICT the job takes a minimum of 4 hours and is touched by no less than 6 techs.........all due to union rules, one to fectch the raw tube, one to bend it, one to cut it, one to flare the end, etc.

If we're going to keep aircraft / aerospace jobs in the US, then our workers are going to start having to make some major changes otherwise those jobs will (and are) move to Mexico and China.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Wow....

Boeing picks Charleston for new 787 line

Boeing will build a second 787 final assembly plant in Charleston, the company told union officials this afternoon.

PREV of NEXT

At Global Aeronautica's Charleston, S.C., factory, which is half-owned by Boeing, workers install wiring and insulation blankets in the center fuselage of a 787. The parts are shipped to Boeing's Everett plant for final assembly.
Enlarge this photo

MIKE SIEGEL / THE SEATTLE TIMES

At Global Aeronautica's Charleston, S.C., factory, which is half-owned by Boeing, workers install wiring and insulation blankets in the center fuselage of a 787. The parts are shipped to Boeing's Everett plant for final assembly.


Boeing's board has voted unanimously to build a second 787 final assembly plant in Charleston, according to a highly placed official of the Machinists union.

South Carolina offered the company $170 million in upfront grants for startup costs, plus multiple tax breaks that would be worth tens of millions of dollars more.

The legislation assumes the company will invest $750 million and create 3,800 new jobs in South Carolina within seven years — if it doesn't create that many jobs, it doesn't get any of the money.

Boeing's decision could vastly increase the footprint it established in Charleston through primary partners on the 787 program.

At Boeing Charleston, the plant where Boeing bought out co-owner Vought this summer for $1 billion, about 900 workers fabricate the 787's single-piece rear-fuselage barrels out of composite plastic.

At the adjacent Global plant, owned 50-50 by Boeing and Alenia, 1,600 workers assemble the Dreamliner's central fuselage.
Click to expand...
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Wow....

Boeing picks Charleston for new 787 line

Boeing will build a second 787 final assembly plant in Charleston, the company told union officials this afternoon.

At Global Aeronautica's Charleston, S.C., factory, which is half-owned by Boeing, workers install wiring and insulation blankets in the center fuselage of a 787. The parts are shipped to Boeing's Everett plant for final assembly.
Enlarge this photo


At Global Aeronautica's Charleston, S.C., factory, which is half-owned by Boeing, workers install wiring and insulation blankets in the center fuselage of a 787. The parts are shipped to Boeing's Everett plant for final assembly.


Boeing's board has voted unanimously to build a second 787 final assembly plant in Charleston, according to a highly placed official of the Machinists union.

South Carolina offered the company $170 million in upfront grants for startup costs, plus multiple tax breaks that would be worth tens of millions of dollars more.

The legislation assumes the company will invest $750 million and create 3,800 new jobs in South Carolina within seven years — if it doesn't create that many jobs, it doesn't get any of the money.

Boeing's decision could vastly increase the footprint it established in Charleston through primary partners on the 787 program.

At Boeing Charleston, the plant where Boeing bought out co-owner Vought this summer for $1 billion, about 900 workers fabricate the 787's single-piece rear-fuselage barrels out of composite plastic.

At the adjacent Global plant, owned 50-50 by Boeing and Alenia, 1,600 workers assemble the Dreamliner's central fuselage.
Click to expand...
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,874
4,214
Copenhagen, Denmark
The Joker said:
I have zero job security. I could be fired/let go at a moment's notice. Because of this uncertainty, I bust my ass everyday to stay ahead of th eguy next to me. In doing so, I have become extermely good at my job and one of the best at my company. They pay me accordingly.

Why? Because I have ZERO job security. I MUST be the best to keep my job.

There is a reason why competition works, and the cream rises to the top. CAll it workplace evolution if you like. If you can't cut it at your job, you don't deserve to be there.
Click to expand...
Enron's strong believe in this strategy proved disastrous.

Not all people preform best under pressure. In general threats and pressure and not very good motivational tools. We are a little more complex than milk and cream.
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,598
7,246
Colorado
CBJ said:
Enron's strong believe in this strategy proved disastrous.

Not all people preform best under pressure. In general threats and pressure and not very good motivational tools. We are a little more complex than milk and cream.
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That's why in those type of jobs, circuit breakers need to be put into place to prevent fraud. That being said, I do not have a threat/pressure worksite. I am there because I want to be. With risk comes reward, and I will take that challenge. If someone doesn't want that risk/reward ratio, they can pick fruit.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,299
16,739
Riding the baggage carousel.
Boeing says 787 needs moar shimz.
SEATTLE (AP) — Boeing says it is inspecting all of its new 787 Dreamliner jets after finding that some have improperly installed parts in a section of the tail.
In a statement late Thursday Boeing (BA) says it had "identified a workmanship issue" with the horizontal tail, also called a stabilizer. Shims and fasteners weren't installed correctly, the aircraft maker said. The stabilizer, the smaller wing on the plane's tail, is built by Italian manufacturer Alenia.

Boeing said inspections will take one to two days. Any work required will take up to eight days for each plane.

Boeing said it will not fly five flight-test jets until they are inspected. Boeing has produced 23 in total. It also said the program remains on track — the first 787 is scheduled for delivery by the end of the year to ANA.

The Seattle Times reported Thursday that the problem in the stabilizer was found within the past week.

The problem is "regrettable but under control," Boeing spokeswoman Yvonne Leach told The Times. "We made a decision to be prudent and do the inspections first."

Of the five flight-test planes, the Times said Planes 2 and 3 were due to fly in the next few days while the other three are in ground tests or preparing for future tests.

The Times said workers at Boeing's assembly plant in Everett, Wash., discovered the problem with shims, which fill small gaps during assembly.

"Shims were improperly installed in a manner that could lead to lower-than-expected longevity for a joint within the horizontal stabilizer," Leach said.

Boeing has relied on suppliers from around the globe to build nearly all components of the 787, but the program has been hampered by ill-fitting parts and other glitches. December's first flight was more than two years behind schedule.

In May, Boeing reported a design flaw in a bracket in the plane's tail and said it would change the way the device is made. The areas affected were made by Korea Aerospace Industries and Boeing's Charleston, S.C., plant.

In late April, Boeing told suppliers to stop delivering 787 parts to Everett for 24 manufacturing days, saying some manufacturers were having trouble getting components and some needed to finish engineering and design changes Boeing wanted.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2010-06-25-boeing-787_N.htm
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Attention to detail fellas, attention to detail. :disgust1:
 
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eaterofdog

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
8,294
1,541
Central Florida
Unions would be great if they new when to back the fvck off. You just can't keep driving up costs in a global market. Another case of someone enriching themselves now regardless of future consequences. I've been seeing a lot of this lately.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Now this is total BS


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D9GHKHA80.html

Probation for Bell Helicopter man, 2 strikers hurt

06/24/2010

Associated Press

A nonunion Bell Helicopter employee must serve two years of probation over his car hitting and injuring two picketing union members at a plant.

Jurors in Fort Worth convicted 77-year-old Cullen Horace McNair of Hurst of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, then decided the penalty Wednesday. McNair could have received up to 20 years in prison for the second-degree felony.

Police say McNair last July 15 bumped one striking worker and drove over the foot of another while attempting to enter the plant. Both were treated for minor injuries.

McNair says he plans to appeal because he did not intend to hit the two men and the strikers did not part to allow him to pass.
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MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Also reminds me of the Boeing Engineers' strike back in '99 I think it was.

A bunch of picketers (white collar engineers), actually jumped on the hood of a car trying to cross the picket line to get to work. They damaged the car. But as part of the contract settlement, they somehow were not prosecuted for damaging the car. NOt sure how all the got worked out. But it was total crap.

**** unions and their members.
 
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