Sugar Mtn - All New DH Course-details

dhbuilder · May 29, 2006

meaning no offense whatsoever.

but i'd say, if you have to ask. then stay out of the expert class.
if you've never raced before, then you probably don't have any idea about how fast the experts and pros will be motoring thru sections of the trail that most people will come to a halt and stare at.
doing a huge disservice to those who are in the middle of that "tunnel vision mode" during practice and their race run. the last thing they're going to want, is to fly up on a rider at half or 3/4 speed and then wondering what you're going to do next. while they blow past. collisions usually leave the person who's been run over in worse shape than the one doing the clobbering.

there's no shame in entering the sport class for a race or two, to gauge where you are in terms of your competition.

nchuckster · May 29, 2006

thats what i needed to know thanks for the info and also thanks for no one being a smartass about the question thanks again

BKQuill · May 30, 2006

dhbuilder said:
meaning no offense whatsoever.

but i'd say, if you have to ask. then stay out of the expert class.
if you've never raced before, then you probably don't have any idea about how fast the experts and pros will be motoring thru sections of the trail that most people will come to a halt and stare at.
doing a huge disservice to those who are in the middle of that "tunnel vision mode" during practice and their race run. the last thing they're going to want, is to fly up on a rider at half or 3/4 speed and then wondering what you're going to do next. while they blow past. collisions usually leave the person who's been run over in worse shape than the one doing the clobbering.

there's no shame in entering the sport class for a race or two, to gauge where you are in terms of your competition.

The man speaks the truth.

I have been racing/riding BMX for 25+ years, so I figured that I could at least hang with the experts in the DH class. Well whenever I would go riding with my friends who happen to be experts and pros, I would always volunteer to go last. I did this for two reasons, first, I'm pretty new to MTBing and didn't want the pressure of having a Butch, Jeremy, Brady, Jeff, Joey or whoever else breathing down my neck and causing me to ride above my skill level (I do this enough on my own, I didn't need any more help) and end up taking out the pack of riders behind me. I also wanted to try and catch them and see how close I could stay to them. I quickly learned that there was NO WAY I'M GOING TO HANG WITH THEM, I'M NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!

Try racing sport class a couple time and then compare your time with the experts. And if you do race sport, don't get discouraged when you see 3,4 or 5 riders just killing the sport times. There are f**king sandbagging experts out there that just don't like to pay the expert fee or maybe it was a renewal, whatever it was, they enter the sport class. NORBA seems not to have a problem allowing sandbagging. I could really care less, it's not like I'm going for a national title or anything, I just think it's a cowardly way to reach the podium.

dhbuilder · May 30, 2006

exactly.
if you leave feeling good about your riding ability because you were racing in a class with similar skill levels. you'll more than likely be fired up to race more often.
if you show up and have a bad experience because of racing in a class that's over and above your present level, and incur the wrath of less than polite competitors, you'll leave with a bad taste in your mouth and never return.

i saw that happen many many times while i was x-c racing.

mgy · May 30, 2006

I just saw that Sugar is having a "special lift weekend" on June 3 and 4. Does anyone know if the DH trails will be open? Is there any free camping near Sugar? National Forest land?

I am debating between Snowshoe and Sugar this weekend so any advice is appreciated.

profro · May 30, 2006

mgy said:
I am debating between Snowshoe and Sugar this weekend so any advice is appreciated.

Go to Snowshoe. You can maybe find 2 different ways down the mountain at Sugar. Snowshoe has enough to go back for a second weekend.

bigdrop05 · May 30, 2006

bizutch said:
I should also clarify my statement. Just because someone can ride 100% of a DH course doesn't mean they can race it. I know lots of riders who can get all the way down Windrock...which is expert and above riding. But they have NO business racing in Expert.

Totally agree ! :thumb:

You got to have serious fitness to ride faasst in expert,& skillz of course.

dhbuilder · May 31, 2006

"special lift"
is that anything like the "short bus" ?

manimal · May 31, 2006

BKQuill said:
There are f**king sandbagging experts out there that just don't like to pay the expert fee or maybe it was a renewal, whatever it was, they enter the sport class. NORBA seems not to have a problem allowing sandbagging. I could really care less, it's not like I'm going for a national title or anything, I just think it's a cowardly way to reach the podium.

Werd. that has been my biggest frustration. just when i think i have a killer run and have a chance at top 5-ish....there are always 2 or 3 sandbaggers that are at least 10 seconds faster than the next fastest time. they'll usually pull times that are comparable to top 25 in expert class. pretty lame if you ask me and i have nooooo problem calling them out.

Murphy's Law · Jun 3, 2006

manimal said:
Werd. that has been my biggest frustration. just when i think i have a killer run and have a chance at top 5-ish....there are always 2 or 3 sandbaggers that are at least 10 seconds faster than the next fastest time. they'll usually pull times that are comparable to top 25 in expert class. pretty lame if you ask me and i have nooooo problem calling them out.

I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.

profro · Jun 3, 2006

Murphy's Law said:
I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.

Name one.

I can't stand the sandbagger routine. :banghead:

Its so old. Whaa whaa whaa...

DHracer1067 · Jun 3, 2006

Murphy's Law said:
I'd like to point out that this also happens in the expert class with people that should ideally be racing semi or even full on pro.

yeah man you better move up or you'll be a sandbagger.

I don't really think you can be a sandbagger in expert. It's the highest the classes go till you are in pro and pro is just on a whole nother level. Some people just aren't serious enough about it and just want to have fun so they would just want to stay in expert.

profro · Jun 4, 2006

DHracer1067 said:
yeah man you better move up or you'll be a sandbagger.

I don't really think you can be a sandbagger in expert. It's the highest the classes go till you are in pro and pro is just on a whole nother level. Some people just aren't serious enough about it and just want to have fun so they would just want to stay in expert.

Very nicely said Jason.

I am so sick and tired of our " instant gratification" society. Everyone has to be on the podium and if you can't make it, then its someone else's fault because they are baggers. Riding should be enough gratification. :nopity:

manimal · Jun 4, 2006

profro said:
Very nicely said Jason.

I am so sick and tired of our " instant gratification" society. Everyone has to be on the podium and if you can't make it, then its someone else's fault because they are baggers. Riding should be enough gratification.

yes, Riding should be enough gratification. but when you PAY to RACE fellow riders in a relatively fair manner by having classes it gets pretty old always seeing a select few smoking the class with times that are well in the "faster than average" time of the next higher class. speaking mainly of sport...expert seems to have a much broader range of times. if i just wanted to RIDE i could go anywhere and have fun...even to the race locations, usually, on non-race days. but when us poor folk save up money to travel, pay RACE FEES, lodging and food we're paying for a chance to compete against other riders that are COMPARABLE to our own skill level. that just doesn't happen when there are expert level riders "bagging" in the sport class. it's just not fiscally worth it for the few runs down the mountain to say that simply "riding should be enough gratification"

that's why you hear us bitchin'

manimal · Jun 4, 2006

i'm gonna go ahead and jinx the race now...but....

Weather as of now:
Friday (24 hours): Times of sun and clouds. Highs in the upper 70s and lows in the low 50s.
Saturday (24 hours): Times of sun and clouds. Highs in the low 70s and lows in the low 50s.

Murphy's Law · Jun 4, 2006

manimal said:
yes, Riding should be enough gratification. but when you PAY to RACE fellow riders in a relatively fair manner by having classes it gets pretty old always seeing a select few smoking the class with times that are well in the "faster than average" time of the next higher class. speaking mainly of sport...expert seems to have a much broader range of times. if i just wanted to RIDE i could go anywhere and have fun...even to the race locations, usually, on non-race days. but when us poor folk save up money to travel, pay RACE FEES, lodging and food we're paying for a chance to compete against other riders that are COMPARABLE to our own skill level. that just doesn't happen when there are expert level riders "bagging" in the sport class. it's just not fiscally worth it for the few runs down the mountain to say that simply "riding should be enough gratification"

that's why you hear us bitchin'

well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

dhbuilder · Jun 4, 2006

what's crazy is in the older expert d.h. classes. just the opposite is the case.
at the nationals, norba will let sport vets race in the expert vet class also.

i got frikkin tired of lining up behind the same flailers race after race.
you talk to them at the starthouse and they'll say, "oh yeah i'll move over." and to a man, every one of them will try to race you as they hear you blowing up behind them at a massive difference in speed.
only to loose it all over themselves and cost you time.

that is 90% of the reason you'll never see me race again.
i don't mind not winning, but when you don't get a fair chance to put in your best effort. what's the point ? so i'll just keep riding with my friends for the pure joy of riding.
we've got more than a few very fast locals here at windrock. i'll just judge my performance against theirs and be satisfied with that.

peer respect means more to me anyway.

DHracer1067 · Jun 4, 2006

Murphy's Law said:
well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

The top kids in Jr. x are routinely right behind the top pro times at races. I'm not complaining. I just need to get faster.

T-Pro · Jun 4, 2006

You guy's have some interesting comments on race class structuring. I definitely am noticing some frustrations with current race formats.

My experience with ski racing and the typical class structure separates racers by age solely not ability. Usually dividing people by some small age ranges. This being true for all classes except the pro/open class. I like this format in that it elevates the question of whether a racer is a "beginner", "sport", or "Expert" in their ability. A persons ability you can question and form opinion, their age you can't. Basically there is no way to be a sandbagger when age is the separating factor.

Though in a sport where the progression from newbie to elite/pro is a vast and steep hill to climb. Separating by ability is almost a necessity. Motocross can be compared in this respect. Classes separated into C, B, and A/pro divisions and age ranges within each class.

It's a tough question. I am not sure the Intro, Amateur, and Pro/Open format is the answer either.
Thoughts?

profro · Jun 5, 2006

Murphy's Law said:
well said. it sucks when you spend hard earned money to race against people supposedly of the same skill level as you and someone pulls a time that is anywhere in the top 15-20 of the class above you. That is a sandbagger in my eyes. oh and Jason, there is a class between pro and expert. its called SEMI-PRO.

You know that Nationals are the only races you do where their routinely seperate the semis and the pros? Everywhere else we race together.

In the semi/pro class we usually pay more to race than you. I always loose. Why is my money not as hard earned as yours?

I think if you recharacterize what you consider as progress or a sucsess you won't worry so much about being beat by someone faster. Try to not be beat by 20 seconds. Work towards 15, then 10, then 5.

T-pro, I'll run open/pro so it doesn't matter to me, but I'm unlike most. I'd rather have 3 larger classes with no age brackets. Makes winning or podiuming more of an accomplishment.

bigdrop05 · Jun 5, 2006

I'm picking on profro for 1'st place in semi-pro.
:trophy_br

vinnycactus · Jun 5, 2006

sorry if I missed it, but is there going to be two seperate courses? one for pro/semi-pro/expert and one for sport/beginner?

legend_killer · Jun 5, 2006

yes, the sport course will go around the "hard stuff"

JT

DHracer1067 · Jun 5, 2006

profro said:
I think if you recharacterize what you consider as progress or a sucsess you won't worry so much about being beat by someone faster. Try to not be beat by 20 seconds. Work towards 15, then 10, then 5.

yeah. Ive mainly just been concentrating and making sure my times are getting faster than last years, instead of just seeing what place I got.

But what do you think the conditions are gonna be like this weekend for the race. Think it'll be muddy at all. Forecast looks like it might not rain for the race days but lizards lane and stuff seems to always be wet.

Tattooo · Jun 5, 2006

I think for the DH the smart investment De Fat is going to be Swampthings.

However, from rumors around the proverbial campfire, is there going to be any more of a DS then a bunch of drunks attempting to navigate around sticks in the mud? That's a race I could win, but a brother's got's to know, if you know what I mean.

profro · Jun 6, 2006

DHracer1067 said:
yeah. Ive mainly just been concentrating and making sure my times are getting faster than last years, instead of just seeing what place I got.

But what do you think the conditions are gonna be like this weekend for the race. Think it'll be muddy at all. Forecast looks like it might not rain for the race days but lizards lane and stuff seems to always be wet.

Unless it turns in to a swampy bog, I'll be running DHFs front and rear as always. I don't think Swampthings will be needed, but bring them just incase.

DHracer1067 · Jun 6, 2006

yeah. I'm running 2.5 dhf's front & rear. Hopefully it should be good. That's what I ran last year.

Murphy's Law · Jun 6, 2006

profro said:
.

In the semi/pro class we usually pay more to race than you. I always loose. Why is my money not as hard earned as yours?

don't put words in my mouth. i never said that. Not quite sure why you have it out for me, i have nothing against you. I'm just voicing my past frustrations with racing. but they are just that. frustrations. nothings perfect in this world.

Peete · Jun 6, 2006

Tattooo said:
I think for the DH the smart investment De Fat is going to be Swampthings.

However, from rumors around the proverbial campfire, is there going to be any more of a DS then a bunch of drunks attempting to navigate around sticks in the mud? That's a race I could win, but a brother's got's to know, if you know what I mean.

I won't be drinking before my heats unless everyone else is.

profro · Jun 6, 2006

Murphy's Law said:
don't put words in my mouth. i never said that. Not quite sure why you have it out for me, i have nothing against you. I'm just voicing my past frustrations with racing. but they are just that. frustrations. nothings perfect in this world.

Nothing against you, but as Jason said Expert is the highest ametuer class and nothing requires you to move up to the pro ranks even if you win by minutes. If you can't be competitive in the expert class no matter who races, then maybe your'e not an expert. No offense, but I can't stand people tryin to blame others on themselves not winning.

I have great respect for Tubby too, but I still can't stand the sandbagger routine no matter whose singing it.

TCP21 · Jun 6, 2006

legend_killer said:
yes, the sport course will go around the "hard stuff"

JT

im not jt but either thats a good thing or a bad thing

manimal · Jun 7, 2006

uh-oh, something bad is going to happen. they're still calling for sun and 70 degrees on fri/sat and only 30% chance of showers on sunday.
<<<<waiting for the bottom to drop out>>>>>>

legend_killer · Jun 7, 2006

TCP21 said:
im not jt but either thats a good thing or a bad thing

I know your not JT cuz I'm JT

I think that should let the sport class go thru the "hard stuff"

JT

manimal · Jun 7, 2006

i just figured it out. just race fees and lift fee alone, and supposing that i luck out and get 6 runs in between friday/sat practice (which would be generous considering the 21 min. lift ride). it comes to $14.67 per run down the mtn. :eek:

natl's are expensive!! oh well, 'tis the season

Sugar Mtn - All New DH Course-details

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