[Ricky]

Hey there MTBers-

I am new to this site, but it appears that there is alot of knowledge out there, and I would love to get some suggestions/advice...

Here's the situation and the mission. I have a 1991 Trek 8700 frame (carbon tubes, aluminum rear triangle) that I got from a dear friend who passed away from a stroke a couple years ago. The frame has seen the Trek Factory three times (1. Rear triangle replaced and frame repainted (1994). 2. Down-tube replaced and frame repainted (1996). 3. Rear left brake boss repaired and frame repainted. (2002)) and it is now in pristine shape with a nice platinum paint job. Needless to say, the frame has significant sentimental value. The mission is to build it up into the lightest weight xc machine within fiscal reason.

This is where you can help - I have been away from the MTB scene for a couple years and am not up on the latest technology. So, please post your suggestions/advice regarding what fork (I currently have an new 2001 Manitou Mars), wheels, tires, drivetrain, bars, stems, headsets, seatposts, etc. I should use to build this bike. Provide your insight regarding pros and cons of your suggestions/advice, particularly as it relates to the project mission that I have outlined above. Have fun, and thanks in advance!

Ricky

 

[FlipSide]

Does it have a 1 1/8 head tube? Or does it have a threadless headset?

If not, you won't be able to use your Mars...

I know you can get the 80mm Marzocchi with the proper steerer tube diameter.

 

[Ricky]

good thought. the mars has a threadless steertube. suggestions on headsets would also be welcome.

 

[FlipSide]

This might come out to be a bit too pricy, but if I were to build this bike to honour the memory of my friend it would look like that:

XTR derailleurs F/R
XTR crankset
Easton CT-2 Carbon Riser
Easton Magnesium Stem
Answer CarboLite Carbon post
Wheels Mavic CrossMax UST
Avid Arch Rival V-Brakes
Michelin Tires

If this is too expensive, I would change the wheels first.

 

[The Toninator]

Originally posted by FlipSide
This might come out to be a bit too pricy, but if I were to build this bike to honour the memory of my friend it would look like that:

XTR derailleurs F/R
XTR crankset
Easton CT-2 Carbon Riser
Easton Magnesium Stem
Answer CarboLite Carbon post
Wheels Mavic CrossMax UST
Avid Arch Rival V-Brakes
Michelin Tires

If this is too expensive, I would change the wheels first.

that's pretty light

 

[FlipSide]

...oh yeah! Don't forget to add a Chris King HeadSet to that list.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by FlipSide
This might come out to be a bit too pricy, but if I were to build this bike to honour the memory of my friend it would look like that:

XTR derailleurs F/R
XTR crankset
Easton CT-2 Carbon Riser
Easton Magnesium Stem
Answer CarboLite Carbon post
Wheels Mavic CrossMax UST
Avid Arch Rival V-Brakes
Michelin Tires

If this is too expensive, I would change the wheels first.

Thanks Flip. I am thinking about SRAM shifters/derailleurs, rather than XTR, but my experience with XTR is that they run flawlessly. So I am going to do a little extra research on the SRAMs.

What has been your experience with the tubeless wheels/tires? A friend of mine had flats on his first ride with them (pinch flats, so I suspect he was running them too low).

 

[novice]

if you want ligth you should ditch that easton mag stem and get either a ritchey wcs, extralite, or FRM web stem. All of these are sub 140g versus the easton's 208g, and costs a lot less.

same with those wheels, you can get lighter with some nice handbuilts, chris king, hugi, or tune hubs laced with some dt revo's to a set of bonty valient front rims. And replacement parts, ie spokes, would be easier to come by thatn with the crossmax.

for brakes you should try to find some avid mags, and replace the bolts with ti. this would be significantly lighter than the arch rivals, but the ti bolt kit would hike up the cost

for cranks i would say go with the fsa carbon pro's, isis splined with either the fsa ti bb or wait till bill shook's bb comes out.

hell, if you want light and think you have the fitness, either go 2 by 9 or use a road casette. if i remember correctly the using a road cassette with a road rear derailluer and a 20t granny chainring up front would be lighter, in this case get dura-ace. This also wouldn't change the gear ratios that much with a 27t granny in the back.

another place to save big weight is in the saddle. something like a selle italia slr would help keep the weight down. or if you prefered something with more on the sides of it, then a selle italia flite tt would work nicely.

hope this helps

by the way, whats the weight on that frame?

 

[SpasticJack]

Given the expected future life of the bike, I'd go w/ Chris King hubs on some nice light rims. King is even building their own wheelsets (Bontrager rims) in-house for approx. $500 retail, way lower than the $$ Mavic wants for Crossmax. You'll be able to pass those hubs on to your grandson. I agree with most of the other choices but would caution you to not go too light on the saddle lest you not want to sit on it. I've always liked the original Flite and @ 195 gms it's no heavyweight.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by novice
if you want ligth you should ditch that easton mag stem and get either a ritchey wcs, extralite, or FRM web stem. All of these are sub 140g versus the easton's 208g, and costs a lot less.

same with those wheels, you can get lighter with some nice handbuilts, chris king, hugi, or tune hubs laced with some dt revo's to a set of bonty valient front rims. And replacement parts, ie spokes, would be easier to come by thatn with the crossmax.

for brakes you should try to find some avid mags, and replace the bolts with ti. this would be significantly lighter than the arch rivals, but the ti bolt kit would hike up the cost

for cranks i would say go with the fsa carbon pro's, isis splined with either the fsa ti bb or wait till bill shook's bb comes out.

hell, if you want light and think you have the fitness, either go 2 by 9 or use a road casette. if i remember correctly the using a road cassette with a road rear derailluer and a 20t granny chainring up front would be lighter, in this case get dura-ace. This also wouldn't change the gear ratios that much with a 27t granny in the back.

another place to save big weight is in the saddle. something like a selle italia slr would help keep the weight down. or if you prefered something with more on the sides of it, then a selle italia flite tt would work nicely.

hope this helps

by the way, whats the weight on that frame?

thanks for the thoughtful advice. i am familiar with Ritchey WCS stems (have one on my Merlin road bike). Any thoughts on the WCS headset? By the way who is FRM?

wheelsets will be the hardest to decide on, but i like the idea of going with handbuilts. years ago, i had a set of bullseye hubs built up with mavic rims (28 hole radial front/28 hole 3x rear). those wheels could spin on their own... i still have them, but the rims need replacing. the other downside is that the hubs only take freewheels, not cassettes.

the avid brake recommendation seems pretty universal. any thoughts on levers? i have seen a brand called techlite that advertises a 105g/pair weight.

there is no way that i am in shape to do the 2x9 route. i am fit, but i know my limits.

i will be using a flite ti saddle. it is the only way to go.

i'll get back to you with a frame weight.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by SpasticJack
Given the expected future life of the bike, . . . I agree with most of the other choices but would caution you to not go too light on the saddle lest you not want to sit on it. I've always liked the original Flite and @ 195 gms it's no heavyweight.

What do you see the "future life" of the bike to be

I agree with your saddle choice. Any thoughts on spinergy wheels (spox or xyclones)?

 

[SpasticJack]

given that he's had it so long already, I figured it would be around for quite a while longer.

Levers- I have a set of the Avid ultimate levers. Not the lightest but boy-o-boy are they nice. I would definitely recommend them to anyone else. speaking of, I saw a set of Arch Supremes with Ultimate levers on MTBR.

Headset- I would go with a King headset to match the hub recommendation. 10 year warranty, plug and forget.

Wheels- There are King/Bontrager Race Lite wheels still floating around used for very good prices. Ceramic rims are the way to go for durability (sidewall wear wise).

Not sure which pedals you're running but Bebops are the lightest if I recall correctly. Eggbeaters are also quite nice, supposedly there is a Ti spindle version coming soon. Pedals are a big source of controllable weight, it's easy to shed some grams there.

 

[KrusteeButt]

It's probably a lot cheaper and you'll have far more weight reduction by just not drinking any beer.
It just always seemed crazy to me to get nuts about "this lever is 10 grams less than this lever"...yeah, I know it adds up when you do all the parts...but is it really that important? That gets pretty darned pricey.
Just the worthless $0.02 of a weekend warrior.

 

[novice]

FRM is an Italian company that makes light sh!t: www.frmbike.com . Also check out these guys: http://www.extralite.com/.

Are you planning on using a suspension fork?

AS for brake levers I use the avid mags, don't feel like trying out others that are lighter, but have the potential to be flexy.

Wheels, if you want light you should get some hand-builts. I would look into hugi, chris king, american classic, or tune hubs, with bonty valient or mavic 517 rims. And a set of bonty racelight wheels would be good, either with the king or hugi hubs. For the spinergy's, as far as I know, the spox had problems with the rear bearings, and I don't know anything about the reliability of the xyclones. But supposedly these wheels, with their fiber spokes, are the fastest accelerating wheel available. This is because even though they are not the lightest, they have the least amount of mass concentrated near the outside of the wheel.

For a headset, get whatever you like, the tange headset at supergo is light and cheap. FRM is supposed to have a light cartridge bearing headset as well.

Hope this will help.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by KrusteeButt
It's probably a lot cheaper and you'll have far more weight reduction by just not drinking any beer.
It just always seemed crazy to me to get nuts about "this lever is 10 grams less than this lever"...yeah, I know it adds up when you do all the parts...but is it really that important? That gets pretty darned pricey.
Just the worthless $0.02 of a weekend warrior.

krustee-

good advice, but i am already a scant 140 lbs. and need beer (best carboloading known to man). i am not trying to "get nuts" about the weight thing. it just has been my experience that i can ride faster and farther, and jump and climb higher, if the bike is lighter. i did say that i needed to apply "fiscal reason" to this bike building mission.

thanks for the $.02 keep it coming, and i will be rich.

Ricky

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by novice

Are you planning on using a suspension fork?

Yeah, I got a Manitou Mars.

 

[KrusteeButt]

Heheheh, I was just givin' you a hard time Ricky.
But I do see people talkin' about this many grams here and that many grams there...not realizing that 200 grams don't even equal a half pound! I remember when I bought my first bike the guy was tryin' to sell me on a different saddle that was about $30 more and it saved 8 grams...that was just about the ONLY difference. Just doesn't make sense to me if you're a recreational rider (that'd be me ).
All in all, the first place that you'll notice weight reduction is in rotating parts: wheels/tires, cranks, etc. That's just physics.
A Manitou Mars (as I'm aware) is already pretty light...sure there are lighter forks but I'd doubt you're going to notice a mere 1/4 pound of difference from one fork to the other.

Something that I definitely took into consideration when I upgraded my bike was the fact that lighter typically also means you're sacrificing strength. Just a thought to consider.

There, now you're up to a total of $0.04.

 

[novice]

200 grams is 0.44 pounds, which is a noticable weight reduction for just about anyone. 8 grams is not worth it, the rule of thumb is don't spend more than a dollar per gram lost. By then you are into Ti/Al bolt kits for things like derailluers. And since he is building up a bike from a frame he can get the cool light parts now and not have to upgrade. And as far as durability goes, most of the lightwieght stuff out their won't break as long as it is used for it's intended purpose, XC. This is especially true at 140 lbs, since that is where I am currently stuck at and have yet to break any of the lightweight parts. I have my commmuter bike with about 10 psi in the front tire and didn't get a pinch flat jumping sh!t. I guess there is an advantage to being on the lighter side of the average person. And I also feel faster on a light bike, especially with a low rolling resistance tire, just kind of fly down the trails.

 

[KrusteeButt]

Ok, here we go...took me a while to look some of this up, so bear with me.
Yeah, I realize 200 grams = .44 lbs...that's what I stated. ("200 grams don't even equal a half pound). To some people, that's worth it. So I did a little searching around to do a little comparison.

Let's assume we have 2 bikes that are completely identical except for the following:
- one has Shimano XT bottom bracket, V-brakes, shifter/lever pods, crankset (hollowtech, 5, 175mm), front/rear derailleurs, front and rear hubs
- the other has XTR of the above stated parts.

I chose to just go with this single comparison, but it's just to give a general idea.

Here's the breakdown:
XTR -
V brakes - 394g, $85
Shifter/lever pods - 414g, $215
Bottom Bracket - 185g, $75
Crankset - 685g, $350
Front Der - 131g, $90
Rear Der - 207g, $140
Front Hub - 190g, $100
Rear Hub - 371g, $170

XT -
V brakes - 455g, $60
Shifter/lever pods - 410g, $150
Bottom Bracket - 255g, $45
Crankset - 647g, $150
Front Der - 138g, $40
Rear Der - 245g, $80
Front Hub - 206g, $65
Rear Hub - 445g, $70

Totals:
XTR components - 2577g, $1225
XT components - 2801g, $660

With XTR, you just saved 224g, or approximately .49 lb.
...and that cost an extra $565.

Is that worth it to you? Maybe. If so, hey, more power to ya.
For me, I'll take the half pound and the extra cash. You could take that cash and put it toward a quality set of nice, light rims which is probably where you'll notice the most significant weight difference when riding.

There Ricky, that had to be worth at least $0.10...now you're up to $0.14!

(NOTE: Yes, I know those are RETAIL prices...I used retail for a reason -- it's the only way to give a fair comparison because discounts that stores give vary from one store to another. Manufacturer suggested retail price is the same from one store to another.)

 

[1speed]

you are on the right track with everyones advice. as for Chris King Hubs?... I have a rear hub that's been back to the factory 4 times. totally rebuilt the last time but I have not even put it on. My XTR's are too consistent. I may put it on for a race but for everyday riding...? check the price difference. You can choose a lighter build on wheels considering your weight. Richey stem is a good choice and def. King headset.
The easton carbon bars are real nice as well.
avid speed dial ultimate levers are light but $139 ,an option of the same weight would be the scram esp 9.0 , same weight and on sale at cambria http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/brakes/index.htm much cheaper
How about a USE Alien seatpost? that's a light seatpost.

there are many choices out there... have you ever ridden patapsco md.? south of baltimore? sweet trails there.

 

[SpasticJack]

sorry to hear about your bad luck with the hub, what specifically went wrong? I have 3 rear and 4 fronts and have experienced zero problems (BTW I tip the scales at about 215). The oldest is 5 years old and still running smooth. In my opinion, they are the easiest to service and have to most positive engagement of any hubs I've ridden. The Ringdrive is so much more durable than a pawl setup.

 

[novice]

yes, very good, xtr is significantly more expensive than xt. And, yes, the weight savings are not that great. Just because the price difference between xtr and xt is large doesn't mean that you have to pay that differential to get the weight savings. Truvatice Stylo Team cranks with a Bill Shook BB is between the xt and xtr prices, but lighter than both. Avid brakes, cheaper and light than xtr. You will get the best weight savings by individually choosing parts and not just specing a groupset. Give us a budget and work can be done from there as to what you should go with. And I think .44 pounds is noticable anywhere on a bike if you switch from one to another. This is especially true for the wheels, here is where you do not want to skimp.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by 1speed


there are many choices out there... have you ever ridden patapsco md.? south of baltimore? sweet trails there.

patapsco is my favorite ride around the area. it is about 30 minutes from my home... can't wait to build up this bike and get back out there.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by novice
...by the way, whats the weight on that frame?

went into the shop and weighed the frame - it is a a respectable 3 lb 13 oz.

 

[Ricky]

Originally posted by novice
You will get the best weight savings by individually choosing parts and not just specing a groupset.

Novice-

I'm with you on this point. I would only make sure that the main drive train components are from the same group (shifters/derailleurs). I have decided to go with SRAM 9.0 shorty shifters and a 9.0 derailleur. Still on the look out for Avid MAG brakes/levers, easton low rise carbon riser bar, thompson post, and ritchey wcs stem. Have not decided on the crankset and wheelset yet...

Ricky

 

[novice]

I would reccomend the 9.0sl rear derailluer over the 9.0 because it has sealed bearings whereas the 9.0 doesn't. For the avid mags you should check out ebay as there always seems to be a new set up there for sale. For the crankset I would recomend that you get an ISIS splined crankset/bottom bracket. I have one and can feel a difference over square taper. Also ISIS because the spline pattern has more surface area between the crank arm and the spindle compared to shimano's pattern. It just lloks like a better system. Good Luck.