[Kanye West]

So my FTW FB10 got stolen today, which isn't that sweet, so I'm looking for a replacement (if I decide to get a downhill bike at all, as I don't even ride a whole hell of a lot anymore).

My FB10 was built as follows:
- Med FB10
- Dorado
- Elka Stage 5/Ti Spring
- Saint calipers/XT levers
- Saint cranks/Straitline Guide/646 pedals
- Deity Blacklabel bars/integrated stem
- Hadley 108pt rear hub, Stealth front hub, Dual Duty rims
- Singlespeed setup, YESS ETR-D tensioner
- Butcher tires

I don't know if I can get another FB10 yet. Not sure if there are going to be any more of these made.

I'm looking for something slack and stable. No weenie race bikes that ride like trail bikes. I don't race (living in Southern California blows animal ass for local racing). The only things I bring my DH bike out to ride are pretty rough and generally steep. So, steep rocky stuff and lots of corners. BIG emphasis on durability. The last two bikes I've ridden have been FTW bikes, so I probably have an unreasonably high standard for build quality and durability.

The main bike that has my attention right now is the Banshee Legend in a size L. I've considered a Demo and a V10 Carbon. Kinda dismissed the Demo for the super short rear end and the less "deep" travel feel. The V10 seems to have this silly slack seat angle thing going on, but I've always loved the feel of the back end on them. The M9 still has the same old Intense issues, so that's out. The DHR's are not really what I'm after in terms of overall behavior.

Based on what I've read of the Legend, and my very brief impressions while riding the bike, they seem to be what I'm after. My only concern is real long term durability and build quality. I know it's a Pacific made bike, and they had some initial hardware issues, but I assume they've been resolved.

Any comments or input on that bike? What else should I consider?

 

[ucsbMTBmember]

build quality looks good on both mine and big gays spitfires. sucks that your bike got stolen man...
Also look at pacific makes bikes for almost everyone in taiwan, it usually comes down to the brand's end as to if they have tight quality control.

 

[norbar]

I've had my legend for 2 full seasons. If you get on on how welds look that yes legend could be better but still is quite good but for durability it is bombproof. I managed to kill 2 helmets, break my collarbone, my finger, send myself to a hospital to have my back x-rayed an a lot more. I'm not a really fast rider, nor I'm really heavy but when I get tired I go into hack mode and I crash like it was my job. For now the frame maybe has only 1 micro dent (it may only be the clear foil).
I think I will need to change my bearings this winter but that's due to riding in the worst conditions I have ever ridden in - alternating between floods, storms and buckets of dust that managed to clog my solo air, all with frequent pressure washing ( yes I know, stupid).

Ask Socket since he trashed his around whistler for a long time.

From what you talk about the legend should be perfect for you. Sorry to hear your bike got stolen. Don't belive in getting it back?

 

[Jim Mac]

Dude, that sucks...have you contacted FTW to see if he has one lying around?

Here's his new site: frankthewelder

 

[chillindrdude]

was your FTW covered under homeowners or renters insurance?

are you looking at mainly "boutique" manufacturers? or are you willing to consider the major players?

the latest trek aluminum session is pretty good, more durable tubeset, as well as appropriate frame armor should give you a lasting setup. the ABP system is pretty good. i've personally ridden this.

the norco aurum, is long and slack, proven in the wc, and according to hype, has alittle more rearward axle movement to give alittle better square edge performance than your typical FSR. nice frame features like integrated seatpost bolt and fork bumpers.

the devinci wilson, appears to be pretty stout. and i have yet to read any negative ride reviews. assembled in canada, and the devinici guys seem to do pretty good work.

the turner DHR, probably the benchmark for durability and longevity. not over engineered, but just right. if history has any say, should last you for awhile, i know people still rocking gen 1 and 2 dhrs. dw link despite some anti-DW factions out there is legit. i've ridden this, and while, not the most supple suspension. no disrespect, still eats up the terrain, and more than up for the task, pedals like a hardtail. it is one of the (if not the most) efficient frames out there.

the v10C. this is my current and personal ride. check out the v10c thread. plenty good things have been said about them. gobbles everything my hack riding throws at it. bottomless feel even with great small bump compliance. good company behind the product. the slackness of the seattube angle is a none issue, i don't notice it.

hope this helps, and good luck with your search.

 

[bizutch]

You've already laid out your wish list in less than 24 hours? Did you lean it against a lamp in the projects/lose it?

 

[dump]

You've already laid out your wish list in less than 24 hours? Did you lean it against a lamp in the projects/lose it?

hehe.

Hope you get your bike back... that stinks.

 

[slyfink]

yeah, sorry to hear about your loss. Maybe, with a bit of luck, it'll be recovered?!

that said, when I was reading your description, it brought to mind how others speak of Canfield bikes... is that an option?

 

[William42]

seems like your into rock gobblers, not poppy bikes, and you like riding steeps. the v10 seems pretty ideal, as does the jedi and legend.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

evil revolt.

/Thread

 

[William42]

karpiel?

 

[norbar]

karpiel?

At least Evil is not bust

 

[William42]

didn't they have a resurgance? or did it already fail?

 

[norbar]

didn't they have a resurgance? or did it already fail?

Fail again. A local company(duncon) with the worst management ever buy them while they were on the downslope themselves. Duncon went bust and Karpiel with them. Though I doubt they would stay afloat on their own either. The bike wasn't stiff (Jan claimed dh bikes don't need to be...), the geo adjust changed travel and rate substantialy and to get good geo you had to elongate your cs to over 18 inches. All that for a bike that was 30% more expensive than a Legend or a Summum was silly. Though the locals only buy like 5 wc present brands anyway. Maybe it was better abroad because outside of the team and their product manager I know 2 people who owned them and by know I mean I rode with them more than once

 

[jackalope]

Tr450 or Wilson. Both are singles like your FTW (although that's not to say they ride exactly the same of course) and I've crashed the amoral fvck out of my Tr450 with no ill-effects besides chips in the paint. The Tr450 is no light weight, so in theory it should be quite durable. Both bikes are slack enough for the steeps and low enough for the cornering criteria.

And that sucks Chuck Testa-cles about your bike being nicked...

 

[Kanye West]

You've already laid out your wish list in less than 24 hours? Did you lean it against a lamp in the projects/lose it?

Stolen out of the back of my truck at work. Locked up too.

I've often contemplated what I would get if I didn't get my FB10. Honestly, I didn't come up with much else that measures up with the durability, performance, geo, weight, simplicity. Like not even close. The only other thing I really had in mind when I bought it was a Legend, but it's built overseas and is particularly expensive given that fact.

A TR450 I would consider. Good rear end feel. Overall good geo. Just again with the stupid slack seat angle a mile behind the BB once it's sagged. I've seen those take a damn lot of abuse too. A less expensive option.

As much as I'd love to buy a U.S. made frame, Turners and Intenses are NOT benchmarks of durability and build quality. I've owned both and being in Socal I'm around tons of them, and they have more problems than I'm prepared to deal with. Looking at springtime for any more FB10's, so I may get another one at that point, but will probably get another frame until then and swap the build over.

Don't know much of anything about the Wilson. The pics of seen make it look really short for some reason. I'll check it out some more.

I liked the Evil frames geo and the way they work, but F me the build quality and simple ability to source a frame was not there. People still SOL on warranty a year later. Pass on that, and also expensive for an overseas frame.

Creepy fact: Chuck Testa was my girlfriends neighbor growing up. I kinda want to go party with Chuck Testa.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

sorry man i was just trying to get a rise out of the board with the evil comment. not serious on that one.

 

[marshalolson]

morewood makalu should be considered as well. its likes to ride deep in its travel (40+% sag), super durable (i have close to 100 days of shuttling and lifts on mine in very steep, rocky and dusty trails in the past calendar year and it has not needed a thing, including being crashed very hard repeatedly), is very stable, charges through rocks, and is still somewhat reactive when you need to pop over something, or accelerate out of a corner, and jumps very nicely.

good luck.

 

[climbingbubba]

Sounds like a Canfield Jedi would be perfect for you. All that rearward travel helps it maintain tons of speed through the rough sections yet the short chainstays help keep it cornering quick. With the newer ones you can even adjust the travel/feel of the bike.

As for durability, It is built plenty strong. it uses 20mm bearings on all the pivots and the caps are built in dust guards.

The only downside is getting them. They are sold out right now. new ones probably won't be out til spring and used ones can be tricky to find. I see a few popping up on pinkbike from time to time though.

little spam (I am considering selling mine since I am more into smooth jump trails, its a large, check out pinkbike for more details)

 

[norbar]

Sounds like a Canfield Jedi would be perfect for you. All that rearward travel helps it maintain tons of speed through the rough sections yet the short chainstays help keep it cornering quick. With the newer ones you can even adjust the travel/feel of the bike.

As for durability, It is built plenty strong. it uses 20mm bearings on all the pivots and the caps are built in dust guards.

The only downside is getting them. They are sold out right now. new ones probably won't be out til spring and used ones can be tricky to find. I see a few popping up on pinkbike from time to time though.

little spam (I am considering selling mine since I am more into smooth jump trails, its a large, check out pinkbike for more details)

That's a tempting offer but since the susp is so different from anything else on the market I'd love to try one before i get one. I'm not selling my legend for at least one season but the 2011+ jedis are tempting as hell.

 

[Kanye West]

I've ridden a few Jedi's, and while on paper it sounds like they'd be right up my alley, it seemed like they were WAY too polarized towards the rearward axle path thing, so much that it sacrificed a lot elsewhere, like consistent front end traction. Plus there's the general availability issue.

Yes, a stable bike is what I'm after, but not something so radically focused on that. I guess more neutral and stable and predictable?

I will look into the Morewood a bit more. I seem to remember the size L also being fairly short? Could be wrong about that, so I'll do a bit more research. Those use a 10.5" shock right?

 

[marshalolson]

2009/10 model makalu were 24" TT for the large (they only did short and long).

for 2011 they went to small medium (23.5") and large (24.5")

10.5" shock, yes. if you end up needing one, let me know. i have a 10.5 vivid for sale cheap if you want it

 

[Kanye West]

What was the as-built wheelbase/HA/CS? Thanks!

 

[marshalolson]

i can measure exactly on monday, i am out of town at the moment, but off the top of my head:

on my 2010, with a 888 and the crowns slammed, and a traditional lower cup, 2.5 DHF's, it measured:

HA: 64.5
BB: 14.0
CS: 17.5

will pull the actuals for you in a few days if you want.

 

[climbingbubba]

I've ridden a few Jedi's, and while on paper it sounds like they'd be right up my alley, it seemed like they were WAY too polarized towards the rearward axle path thing, so much that it sacrificed a lot elsewhere, like consistent front end traction. Plus there's the general availability issue.

Yes, a stable bike is what I'm after, but not something so radically focused on that. I guess more neutral and stable and predictable?

It is a bit different for sure. I guess not for everyone.

I did have a banshee legend before it. I wouldn't hesitate to ride one again (but a large this time instead of medium). While not as confidence inspiring on big drops and fast rough stuff it felt a lot faster to me on varying terrain. The only dislike I had was that it felt like a pure race bike. It almost demanded you ride it in the attack position at all times. When you did it rewarded you though. I have never felt faster through nasty technical trails then I did on that bike.

The only complaint on the Banshee was the pedal feedback which isn't terrible but noticeable.

 

[rockofullr]

Lol @ FTW web page. What kind of background image is this?

When I go to his page all I can see is some metal and an extreme close up of his ugly a$$ thumbnail.

 

[ridiculous]

I've ridden a few Jedi's, and while on paper it sounds like they'd be right up my alley, it seemed like they were WAY too polarized towards the rearward axle path thing, so much that it sacrificed a lot elsewhere, like consistent front end traction. Plus there's the general availability issue.

Yes, a stable bike is what I'm after, but not something so radically focused on that. I guess more neutral and stable and predictable?

I will look into the Morewood a bit more. I seem to remember the size L also being fairly short? Could be wrong about that, so I'll do a bit more research. Those use a 10.5" shock right?

I was going to suggest a Jedi after reading your initial post. I still think its a good match, the biggest sacrifice I found was my ability to jump the bike. You have to ride a bit more forward on a Jedi, once you learn the bike front end traction is no issue.

 

[Jim Mac]

Lol @ FTW web page.

 

[Kanye West]

Glanced at the Jedi on the Canfield site again. <8" travel, steep HA, super short CS and wheelbase (believe it or not, static geo DOES matter when you're skipping across the top of the terrain, or loading the front into super steep corners). Now that I'm considering other frames more seriously I'll hop on one again to see what I think, but no wonder the thing felt weird.

 

[norbar]

Glanced at the Jedi on the Canfield site again. <8" travel, steep HA, super short CS and wheelbase (believe it or not, static geo DOES matter when you're skipping across the top of the terrain, or loading the front into super steep corners). Now that I'm considering other frames more seriously I'll hop on one again to see what I think, but no wonder the thing felt weird.

The 2011 is slacker (~64 so it should be better)


As for the legend forcing you to ride agressively - it tires you more but I love it. I really need to get into shape for 2012 so I can finally throw it around and abuse it like it wants me to.

 

[p-spec]

intense m9

 

[William42]

just buy a v10. It comes in a big boy option with a long WB, its reliable, its strong, its got dialed geometry, and it can monster truck where necessary and its stable. I'd suggest a session to you, but its probably a little too poppy for your taste. Have you ridden one of the new demo's? They're aggressively fun.

 

[ianjenn]

Gordon we can throw Richard on his 70 degree HA Tazer and see who wins to the bottom...... just saying.

 

[Kanye West]

Hah, now let's do that 20 times in a row and see how many crashes happen!

I've got a line on a Legend frame at the moment, so it's probably all going to come down to price. I kinda doubt I'll be able to get a V10 Carbon for any kind of reasonable price, even with my various jew deals.

 

[W4S]

if you haven't ridden a DW DHR then you're missing out. I know you didn't like your last one but the DW is a different animal, it's stable at speed, floats through rock gardens and is nimble and poppy like the last one. Im sure it's not a plower like a V10 or an M9 but the efficiency and traction are amazing, the bike wants to go fast through everything.

 

[Kanye West]

I've messed around on a few and they REALLY didn't feel like my thing, although I'm always game to perform more thorough testing

 

[W4S]

i'm sure there's somebody who will loan you a large apple green DW for a demo.

i know what you mean though, i feel like the DW DHR needs a really stiff fork and medium soft shock, both LS and HS, thats what I'm running and it seems to be working.

but seriously, i really can't imagine how you couldn't like the DW with proper suspension, the CCDB makes a huge difference in control and traction imo, if you want to take a couple runs on my medium let me know, it rides closer to a small with my bar/stem set up but that's an easy fix.

 

[www.amazon.com]

Cove shocker?

 

[Steve M]

The Legends are a pretty solid bike - not perfect, but durable (yet to see one break - I was apparently the first person in the world to break one of the preproduction ones so I think I'm a reasonably good yardstick for fat hacks) and I love the geometry. The suspension action is predictable but it isn't much of a plow bike in the same sense that a V10 is, it's a relatively dead ride. If you do get one, I strongly recommend getting an RC4 with it simply because that allows you the best possible bottom out resistance without overdamping the midstroke due to the slightly oddball leverage rate. Pedals a bit weird due to very high anti-squat, it's not quite as efficient as some other bikes out there but it gets going pretty quickly and I got used to the extension soon enough.

Mine's had a full season in Whistler plus 12 months riding back in Aus (equivalent to another week in Whis hahah) with no problems at all - still on all the original pivot bearings, derailleur hanger, and even the pivot hardware has never ever come loose from the factory - I check it now and then and it's never once been loose. Check it for cracks now and then, still yet to find anything. As far as a bombproof, low-maintenance bike goes, it's a brilliant choice, but the finish quality won't blow you away - the machining in the canoe is a bit rough and the paint is garbage (get the ano or polished finish if you don't want to spend half your life covering the thing in 3M).

Overall, I'd recommend the bike to pretty well anyone except a novice. The large in particular is slack and long enough that it's a handful if you aren't going to wring its neck in the tight stuff, and the rear end isn't as forgiving or lively as some bikes, but it's extremely stable both in terms of suspension and geometry. If what you're looking to do is smash into rocky stuff on steep terrain at high speed with more emphasis on speed than comfort then it's a brilliant bike.

 

[norbar]

Didn't notice your RM name change

I wonder as you probably have more experiance with other bikes than me - did you try putting an agleset into a legend and riding a jedi. I agree with your thoughts on the legend among some other stuff so I'm curious what do you think about them if you had a chance to try?