[slowmtb]

Hi team,
One of the local shops is going to give me an '08 Sunday Elite for a few weeks to test ride. I was talking to the owner about bikes in general at our local BMX track and told him how much I love riding my '08 7point and was curious how the Sundays ride. He said he had one out the back of his shop gathering dust.
It has a Maz' Roco WC out back and Totems - any helpful tuning tips ?
I am 190lbs with kit.
I know it is not the latest and greatest but I am looking forward to getting a leg over one at last. I am not exactly gelling with my Glory and want a change.

What experiences have you guys had with these bikes? Any feedback appreciated

http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/bikes/sunday/sunday-elite.php

 

[Udi]

Compared to the glory, it's lower, lighter, has (much) more room in the frontend for a given size, and has a slightly slacker headangle. They kinda set the standard for DH geometry for a while there and they're pretty durable so I can't really imagine you being unhappy.

Boxxers are better than totems on it for all out DH though as you can get the head angle slacker, the extra travel is nice too. But they'll do for a while.

 

[Sandwich]

Hey dude,
the sunday is a great bike and should last for quite some time if you take care of it. The shock doesn't look like it came stock, so I would double check to make sure it has a sunday tune on it, or you may end up with an overdamped rear end. It looks otherwise like the bike is more set up for freeriding than race DH, but if you swap a nice double crown on there, you can get the front end low with full travel.

For me, the geometry was spot on and immediately felt natural. The bike pedals great with plenty of snap, although my last ride was much heavier so the acceleration I feel could be simply due to light weight. I noticed that the rear end tends to skip around a little more than my last bike over chatter, and the braking performance is much worse (ie, it firms up under braking rather than remaining supple) than my last ride, but it had a floating linkage. The BB is retarded low and you should consider where you ride and equip your bike accordingly, especially if you decide on that frame. 165mm cranks are mandatory if you ride someplace rocky. I smash my pedals on everything, and on more than one occasion have come super close to smashing a pedal into the ground on certain features, even when the bike is standing up. If I had my choice, I'd go a hair higher, but it is what it is. The bike does corner great, and that may be due to the same low BB.

One thing I realized after racing this year is that I really don't need to upgrade to a new frame. I originally intended to get something else after a season, but I'm feeling this bike, and it's fully capable of anything I can do with it. I might try to upgrade the shock on it (I have a DHX), but that's about it.

 

[blackohio]

i loved mine while i had it. really felt great everywhere. one of my favorite bikes.

 

[bizutch]

My '07 Sunday Elite was a blast!

 

[davep]

I am still riding my '07 (us made frame) with no problems. Comming off a DHR, the Sunday is lower, slacker, sticks to the ground a bit more, and is significantly more linear in its rate. If you want it slscker, the standard 1.5 headtube allows inserts for up to a 2* decrease in angle.

If it were me, I would tear down the entire frame and loc-tite (thread and press fit) or anti-seize and torque all the appropriate bolts and bearings (I do this with every new frame before I ride them). I am on all original hardware and have ahd zero issues with loosening, bolt stripping, slop, etc. Bolt specs are all in the PDF on the first page of the Sunday thread...and Udi has posted a bunch of great info about Sunday linkage keep up in general.

Overall, it has been a great frame, very natural feeling and comfortable from day one. My ONLY small issue was the linearity of the suspension. With the stock DHX, and proper sag, I had several hard bottoms in big g-out type situations. The shock went to Push and everything about the suspension is simply better.

 

[CBJ]

Listen to DaveP.

Me: 06 us frame all hardware still in good shape.

 

[Demomonkey]

06 Factory still running good.

 

[time-bomb]

The only replies you're going to get here is from people that loved/love their Sunday's.

except for that guy (the one who had all his comments deleted)

 

[freshwire]

My '08 WC rocks...Vivid out back, 40 up front...rebound just a little on the slow side and the bike is simple to ride...I'll be keepin' it till it dies...you really need a dual crown on it though...to really have fun on it...mine does well in rocks...not sure why the guy above wasn't impressed...everybody's different!

 

[davep]

Sorry to call you out Luc, but you have posted a bunch on many forums to the contrary.....Possible you just grew tired/bored of having the same ride for 4 years?


http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1977777&postcount=7
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1908987&postcount=12

 

[davep]

WOW...really????

I guess if someone asking you a simple clarifying question is too much for you...then yea, this probabally is not the place for you.

 

[kidwoo]

Sorry to call you out Luc, but you have posted a bunch on many forums to the contrary.....Possible you just grew tired/bored of having the same ride for 4 years?


http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1977777&postcount=7
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1908987&postcount=12

That second link goes nowhere so I can only address the first. I agree with everything Luc said, yet I still never really liked any of the sundays I've ridden AS A WHOLE. It DOES plow through really rough stuff like a champ. And power transfer from the drivetrain is awesome. But it also blows through it's travel really easily without very heavy shock manipulation making it tough to pump and pop jumps and turns. The rear end just always felt kind of vague. To me that outweighed the benefits and so as a whole, I can say overall, I really always thought there were better frames for me.

Maybe he 'outgrew' the things he liked about it in two years and discovered more things he didn't like. I know he messed with that bike trying to get the little nitpicky things dialed more than I've seen anyone else with any other bike. I know I've praised a frame and then gone and changed things afterwords that I thought could be better. Crazier things have happened.

 

[davep]

Actually neither link work now as Luc has has them removed...

We both came from a DHR, and I share some of the same feelings you had about the Sunday....but I liked the lack of so much 'pop'. The shock tune definately made the bike better IMO, but so did the custom tune on my DHR. I don't consider custom shock tuning to be a downside....

Honestly, I was just asking why he changed his opinion a full 180 degrees....something he learned over time? Comparison to some 'newer' and 'better' frame that he is riding now??

It is really was just simple question.

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah I don't know. Maybe it was your 'call you out' sentence.

But anyway.....

Him and I had some of the same complaints in the end. You know how it is though. You have a bike that you think you can tune and/or setup differently to improve it. Then you slowly realize over time that sometimes you just can't change those things. There have been lots of people including myself who gush lovingly over something and then have a different opinion a few years down the road after more time on it.

 

[Sandwich]

Yeah, I would politely like to know what changed his mind...it would help the OP and myself...if the bike is straight up goofy, I don't want to waste money on a shock tune that may not correct it.

 

[Acadian]

Yeah I don't know. Maybe it was your 'call you out' sentence.

But anyway.....

Him and I had some of the same complaints in the end. You know how it is though. You have a bike that you think you can tune and/or setup differently to improve it. Then you slowly realize over time that sometimes you just can't change those things. There have been lots of people including myself who gush lovingly over something and then have a different opinion a few years down the road after more time on it.

it's like buying a mega expensive bottle of scotch because that's what all the cool folks are drinking. But you don't really like it, it's tolerable, but not great.

You just spent tons of $$ on this damn bottle, everyone says it's the best damn scotch around and nothing out there comes even close to beating it's taste. So you start telling yourself, maybe it's me - I need to develop a taste for it. so you keep drinking it, then try mixing it with coke, 7UP, rootbeer, add ice cream...then you give up and move on.

If I had to compare my Sunday to my old DHR - I definitely preferred the riding characteristics of the DHR. There are some things I didn't like, like how the bike handles square edge hits, but for the most part, that bike rode really nice. Last summer I took a spin on Kidwoo's DHR and was instantly more comfortable (and felt faster) than I did on my own damn bike. that's when I realized that maybe the Sunday just wasn't for me. I'm not saying it's a BAD bike, but I think it needs a special kind of rider to really ride that bike fast - and I'm not that one.

Also my Sunday had develop all kind of play in the linkages, was making all kind of creaking noises (maybe the bondo was coming loose) and simply didn't want to ride it anymore. Like Kevin said - I tried all the freakkin shocks known to man on that bike and sill couldn't dial it in to match my riding style.

anyway - just don't want to start any debates. just giving you guys my option. yeah I go through a lot of bikes - but that's because I'm curious and like to come to my own conclusions....maybe 4 years on the same DH bike was a bit much and got frustrated since I really wanted to like that bike.

okay I need to clock out and go drink some good whiskey (f' scotch)

 

[davep]

Sorry if I offended you, and thanks for posting that!!

 

[Udi]

Look at the end of the day, it's a bike that won two consecutive world championships and a world cup overall. Suffice to say, if you can't go fast on it, it's not the bike's fault.

I've had no real linkage problems on the 07+ frames (keep in mind Acadian had an older frame and later upgraded the linkages, but I think QC in general improved every year), and have been thrashing mine for 3 years now including overseas trips, and still haven't managed to wreck it.

Having been on both bikes, I think the DHR definitely has more pop, but the Sunday handles square edges better, pedals noticeably better, and has a noticeably stiffer rearend. They both have killer geometry, and they've both had linkage issues that are now fixed.

If you're willing to play around with shocks, I think you can definitely get them feeling pretty good, there have been a lot of small but useful advances in shocks even VERY recently so I find it hard to believe people who have supposedly tried everything HAVE tried everything. There's the Elka, new CCDB tune, Push MX if you can get your hands on it, the list goes on.

And before someone whines about the cost/hassle involved, the bike is so ridiculously cheap to begin with, that at least for me, it was worth a bit of playing around with shocks. The complete bikes aren't much more than glories which means frames were going for pennies even back in the day, compare that to other bikes that have comparable geometry and stats - Revolt, M6, DHR...

It mightn't be picture perfect (nothing is) but it does a lot of things damn well for what it costs, a number that is probably going down as we speak.

 

[Udi]

With that out of the way - my honest nitpicks with the bike are:

- The BB is probably a little too low, I found it fine overseas, but here in aus we don't know what track maintenance is (might explain the fast kids) so there are massive holes every race round that you disappear into.

- Yes the rearend has a tendency to sit low. I found the biggest thing you could do to improve that was to stick to the 33% sag number and not go lower (I'm probably still guilty there) as it will help with the corner-squat as well as the low-BB issue. A bit of compression damping is good too.

- Yes it's not super poppy - again here, correct springrate makes a big difference, and a shock that lets you tune LSR/HSR independantly and get them quite fast without bucking (2010 CCDB is really nice for this) will leave you with ample pop. A shock with minimal stiction will help here too.

- If you're riding super steep stuff (I took mine to the Swiss Alps / Champery last summer) a slacker head angle is nice. I got the angled reducer cups that someone here started producing, and it sits at 63.5* which made it awesome on the steeps.

- The lower link rear bearings can get water intrusion, 2 o-rings fix this and I've posted a detailed guide (along with probably a million other tips that I've worked out over the years) in the long sunday thread.

 

[saruti]

I ride the 06 sunday for 3 years now I love the bike. cant see my self on other bike...
still with the original dhx5
still with the same linkage (fix it alone)
took me some time to get confident with the low bb. (on rocky terrain) cant say its the best bike in the world... but I like how it looks and like how it rides.
good enough for me

 

[slowmtb]

Thanks for posting team

First off, it has a Vivid 5.1 out back.

So far so good. I am really enjoying how fast it rolls and it feels light when riding. There are some sections I have been trying it out on in particular, one has a jump right on the end of a 180* berm that you need to pop off and hit the landing so you carry enough speed to clear the next jump ( my Glory just doesn't seem to want to "pop" ). After some set up and a few runs I nailed it for the first time ever, the bike did everything I wanted it to do with ease. Another is some jumps that I have been struggling to clear , the Sunday cleared the whole damn thing and I landed to flat . I waited for the big crunch on landing and it just sucked it all up, amazing.
The Totem is awesome, I have never ridden on one until now and once you dial in the gazillion adjustments that thing is quite outstanding.
I am in love with this bike, it just seems to suit my riding style down to a T.
Those Code breaks are wicked, heaps of modulation and power

I am trying to be subjective here because I do not want to write off my Glory prematurely but I am gelling with it soooooooooo much.

Some guys I ride with ( who ride Glory's ) found the suspension to feel too hard in "the carpark test" but when you actually ride it and start loading it up it just soaks up the hits and man does it rail.

Might be time for me to move on, sorry Glory but