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Sunline V-One Flat Bar Sweep NOT the Same As Riser

djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,107
1,799
Northern California
Just a note to anyone considering this bar. I got mine last week and found that although the Sunline website states sweeps are comparable to the riser, it in fact has much more backsweep. After some online searching I found one review stating it has 0 degrees of upsweep and 11 degrees of backsweep, vs 5/9 for the regular riser. Riding with it set at the 0 marking was scary/dangerous. Rotating the bar forward mitigates most of the issue, however if you're going back and forth with another bike that has the riser version they still won't feel exactly the same.
 
Dogboy

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,215
615
Durham, NC
Well of course they aren't the same. A flat bar can't have upsweep and backsweep - it wouldn't be a flat bar if it did. It does feel really, really similar though when you have the bar rotated just right. I have a 19mm rise V-One on my trail bike and the V-One flat bar on my DH bike and while they aren't identical in feel, they are pretty close and the bar to ground height is comparable even though the trail bike fork has 5.5" of travel vs. 8" on the DH bike.
 
Dogboy

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,215
615
Durham, NC
Someone please explain how a bar can have sweep on two planes and still be flat. If it bends up it can be flat and if it bends back it can be flat (really just a matter of rotation), but if it bends in both directions can it still be flat?
 
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pedro_sandchez

Chimp
Jul 9, 2007
51
0
I don't think the term 'flat' has anything to do with the sweep of the bar. Flat means the bar has no rise between the stem and the inner edge of where your handgrip sits. Yes, having an upsweep would mean these two areas don't reside in the same plane, but there isn't an bend in the bar to raise the bar height. Sweep is more about hand position than just raising the bar height.
 
T

Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
I just put a set on my DH bike and couldn't tell a difference.
My DJ/4x bike has the 19mm rise V-1's and I ride both bikes back to back often and can't feel anything but the width difference.
 
S

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
pedro_sandchez said:
I don't think the term 'flat' has anything to do with the sweep of the bar. Flat means the bar has no rise between the stem and the inner edge of where your handgrip sits. Yes, having an upsweep would mean these two areas don't reside in the same plane, but there isn't an bend in the bar to raise the bar height. Sweep is more about hand position than just raising the bar height.
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sadly, "upsweep" = rise... which makes the theory you just uttered pretty useless.

if a bar has upsweep, it isn't flat.
 
Bicyclist

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Every flat bar can be rotated to have upsweep...more of an issue of labeling than anything.
 
MikeD

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,735
1,819
chez moi
Huh. This is why I'm not an engineer. Just been looking at bars and noted that some "flat bars" are advertised with back and upsweep...
 
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davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
gurp said:
There are several flat bars you can buy with upsweep and backsweep. Do a search.
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I would LOVE to hear someone explain how something in 2 dimensions (the definition of 'flat') has a third dimension.

Some mfg list a 'back' and 'up' sweep on flat bars to make comparisons (to riser bars) more simple for those who do not want to do the trig.
Think of it this way, take an 12* bend flat bar laying in the horizontal plane. It has 12* of 'back sweep' and 0* of up. Now rotate that bar 90* so that the bend is vertical. Now that exact same bar has 0* back sweep and 12* up sweep.
Obviously somewhere (actually everywhere) between vertical and horizontal orientation this bar will seem to have both up sweep and backsweep (WRT the horizontal plane). The actual angles will depend on the original bar bend, and the roation of the plane that the bar resides, but you will find that you can emulate the feel of a riser bar, simply by rotating the bar WRT horzontal.

BTW, this is all also true for a traditional riser bar...rotation in the stem will change both up and back sweep.
 
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djjohnr

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,107
1,799
Northern California
My point - with the bar rotated to achieve the same back sweep as my 19mm 745, the upsweep is not the same. This may/may not matter to you. It's not enough of an issue for me to return/sell the bar, however YRMV. At least this is documented now, so if/when someone does a search on this bar they'll have the knowledge before making their purchase.
 
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slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
gurp said:
Bottom line - contrary to how you think manufacturers should label "0mm rise bars with upsweep", some label them as flat bars.
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you mean like how e-riders come on RideMonkey and talk about riding the bikes that are used only for photographic "proof" of ownership? you're saying there are people who say one thing and do another?

I'm shocked.

the fact remains that if a bar sweeps upward it's not flat. doesn't matter what it's called, it's not flat. read davep's post. 2-dimensional = flat, 3-dimensional = NOT flat.
 
D

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
gurp said:
My point - with the bar rotated to achieve the same back sweep as my 19mm 745, the upsweep is not the same. This may/may not matter to you. It's not enough of an issue for me to return/sell the bar, however YRMV. At least this is documented now, so if/when someone does a search on this bar they'll have the knowledge before making their purchase.
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Certainly possible. You could rotate the riser (with lots of up sweep for example) in a way that the flat bar cannot emulate...and I dont even know if the flats and risers have the same combined sweep angle...or if the stated angles are verified as correct...or in what orientation the riser bar is to have the reference sweep numbers...

IME, it does take a bit of playing to get a flat bar to feel right. It is not quite as intuitive as a riser, as there is really no reference to starting point as there is inherantly in a riser bar. For example, on my 777s, the graphic is in the same plane as the bend, so once they are rotated to feel right, the logo ends up pointing down toward the ground..When installed with the 'reference' graphic, they obviously feel like crap.
I can through a riser bar on, sit on my bike for 5sec and get the bar in the right position for me. The 777 took several rides around the block with an allen in hand to get it right.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,499
1,719
Warsaw :/
gurp said:
My point - with the bar rotated to achieve the same back sweep as my 19mm 745, the upsweep is not the same. This may/may not matter to you. It's not enough of an issue for me to return/sell the bar, however YRMV. At least this is documented now, so if/when someone does a search on this bar they'll have the knowledge before making their purchase.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it would feel different even if they would have the same backsweep. You see the flat part kinda is there to make it feel different.
As for 9deg back 0deg rise bars you can go with element. 760width and 299g weight. The pb new stuff has even less backsweep but I prefer it around 9.
 
leprechaun

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
There have been a few bar companies playing with more backsweep-10-12 vs 7-9 commonly found on current bars.

I like a bit of backsweep on really wide bars.

I find that when my hands are that far apart the added backsweep feels more natural, i'm almost too "elbows out" with the current 29+ wide 9 degree sweep bars, and it limits my ability to turn the bars all the way in one direction without my outward hand peeling off the bar some.

So give one a try before discounting the idea.
 
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