[stoney]

I know this was discussed briefly in the debt thread, but this deserves its own debate. The new 12-person 'super congress' is scary as hell.

- The policy that comes out of the committee cannot be filibustered or altered, and gets a fast track to the white house for approval.

- It moves legislative control from ~300 members of congress and puts it into the hands of 12. This is removing the 'direct' line of representation from citizen to policy deciding rep and making essentially severing the connection between the citizen and legislation.

- From what I can gather, this committee is being given a unilateral control for 'important' legislation. There is no definition of important, so I would expect to see heavy usage of this committee.

- It removes the voice of any non-main party representatives from debate. This is locking the power in legislation into the two parties and their leaders.

How are the news media and educated people in this country not screaming from the roofs at this? This must be unconstitutional, as it breaks the purpose of legislative representation.

All I can see coming of this is the creation of a totalitarian regime- all power is being concentrated into a central few. This is worse than the 300 we had to deal with prior, there are now 13 people deciding what laws are made...

Is anybody else even remotely concerned about this? Imho, this is far scarier than the debt ceiling issue. This is playing out that the debt ceiling was a smoke and mirrors ploy to get these powers passed. It's very reminiscent of the Partiot acts' re-signing.

 

[X3pilot]

You're new to this country aren't you?

Probalby actually less than the 13. See my other post in the debt ceiling thread about the far more evil "super lobby".

It's a Koch and Sorros world, my friend

 

[TheMontashu]

This is MUCH deeper than this, this is one more step republicans (not more power to gov. as a whole) have taken in getting even MORE power. Notice how you CAN filibuster if there are spending increases.

This is really just the republicans gaining as much power as they can so that when the people finally wake up to the fact that the right has, given our money to the upper class through corporate welfare and tax breaks, taken our rights, and shipped our economy to china, that it will be too late and they will already have to much power for us to do anything. I look at all these new voter laws that are also BLATANTLY unconstitutional in the same sort of way.

 

[stoney]

This is Repub or Dem - it's both. It's a power grab by a few, party has no importance here.

 

[TheMontashu]

This is Repub or Dem - it's both. It's a power grab by a few, party has no importance here.

I disagree, I think the right is MUCH more forceful in their power grab. Use the presidency as an example, Bush was the most heavy handed legislating president we have had in our history. Where as Obama has scaled back the legislative efforts from the executive branch. Funny thing there is people are basically saying he lacks leadership, but they are ignoring that it's not his JOB to legislate, that is what the legislative branch is for. As well take a look at some of the proposals in congress and the house, republicans want to deregulate this industry and that industry, while legislating morality.

This is the right trying to hold onto the ****ed up system that they put in place to help their rich buddies, and if you think it's any different you are a DAMN FOOL, and it's fools like you that are going to allow the middle class to be destroyed.

 

[stoney]

You realize that you are falling into the wanted play. Left-right pissing matches are what is wanted... Those of us not in the 'power elite' as you refer to them, are all getting the wrong end of this stick.

It really is an 'us vs. them', where them is well known and us is everyone else.

Get over the left-right pissing match isht and see through the trees.

 

[Pesqueeb]

You realize that you are falling into the wanted play. Left-right pissing matches are what is wanted... Those of us not in the 'power elite' as you refer to them, are all getting the wrong end of this stick.

It really is an 'us vs. them', where them is well known and us is everyone else.

Get over the left-right pissing match isht and see through the trees.

You sound like Desmondo.

 

[stoney]

You sound like Desmondo.

I agree, but in this case I think it's actually possible. Congress just voted to give 12 members the ability to write policy, which cannot be altered once completed in committee. That sounds an awful lot like the reduction of legislative process and powers.

 

[TheMontashu]

You realize that you are falling into the wanted play. Left-right pissing matches are what is wanted... Those of us not in the 'power elite' as you refer to them, are all getting the wrong end of this stick.

It really is an 'us vs. them', where them is well known and us is everyone else.

Get over the left-right pissing match isht and see through the trees.

Seriously dude, this has NOTHING to do with right and left. Well sort of, here's how it breaks down. I'm not sure if you took econ in college at all, but according to very basic economic principals, what the right is doing is WRONG for the economy, and benefits the RICH, where as what the left talks about doing is the CORRECT thing to do with the economy, and benefits the rich less.

Here's the dumbed down version, economy good= cut spending, and save money. Economy Bad= INCREASE SPENDING, SPEND MONEY. FDR proved it with the new deal, and so have many others. Obama's recovery (thanks to the RIGHT) was only HALF what it needed to be to fix what the RIGHT ruined through deregulation and corporate welfare.

 

[X3pilot]

Seriously dude, this has NOTHING to do with right and left. Well sort of, here's how it breaks down. I'm not sure if you took econ in college at all, but according to very basic economic principals, what the right is doing is WRONG for the economy, and benefits the RICH, where as what the left talks about doing is the CORRECT thing to do with the economy, and benefits the rich less.

Here's the dumbed down version, economy good= cut spending, and save money. Economy Bad= INCREASE SPENDING, SPEND MONEY. FDR proved it with the new deal, and so have many others. Obama's recovery (thanks to the RIGHT) was only HALF what it needed to be to fix what the RIGHT ruined through deregulation and corporate welfare.

Seriously, dude, your first paragraph was dumbed down enough.

WTF is "rich less" Robin Hood?

 

[Toshi]

I agree, but in this case I think it's actually possible. Congress just voted to give 12 members the ability to write policy, which cannot be altered once completed in committee. That sounds an awful lot like the reduction of legislative process and powers.

Where have you read that this italicized part to be true? I thought the committee would arrive at its recommendations and then the legislation would go through the same process as all other committee-originated legislation goes through.

 

[stevew]

i thought rock/paper/scissors was involved somewhere along the line....

 

[stoney]

Seriously dude, this has NOTHING to do with right and left.

Seriously? Look at your last four posts. Do you even remember what you ate for breakfast, given that you cannot remember what you said 30min ago?

Obama's recovery (thanks to the RIGHT) was only HALF what it needed to be to fix what the RIGHT ruined through deregulation and corporate welfare.

This is MUCH deeper than this, this is one more step republicans (not more power to gov. as a whole) have taken in getting even MORE power.

This is the right trying to hold onto the ****ed up system that they put in place to help their rich buddies

Secondly, this is not about economics; this is about legislative power. The only reason I even mentioned the debt ceiling talks is because it looks as a perfect cover to create this new super committee/congress. You really need to learn how to stay on topic.


Toshi - this is what I have gathered from the news sources I've read. Like I mentioned in he initial post, I am still trying to get more detail as to what the committee has permission to do.

 

[jonKranked]

quick! to the Durden phone!

 

[TheMontashu]

Seriously? Look at your last four posts. Do you even remember what you ate for breakfast, given that you cannot remember what you said 30min ago?

Seriously, look at the next SENTENCE.

Secondly, this is not about economics; this is about legislative power. The only reason I even mentioned the debt ceiling talks is because it looks as a perfect cover to create this new super committee/congress. You really need to learn how to stay on topic.

I'm saying it's the right that is making the push for these reasons, I guess you missed the connection. They are fighting to increase powers as to make continuing failed policies possible. Republican's have been responsible for the largest increases in size, scope and power of government in the last 10 years.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I agree, but in this case I think it's actually possible. Congress just voted to give 12 members the ability to write policy, which cannot be altered once completed in committee. That sounds an awful lot like the reduction of legislative process and powers.

It's even worse than that since a plan can be approved with only 7 votes. The Dems will nominate some jackhole like Kent Conrad effectively giving the republicans 7 votes. This will not end well.

 

[rockofullr]

I think that you guys are making too much of this.

Here's my read: This is Obama's plan to get tax increases (or tax code fixes) and spending cuts passed at the same time.

The idea is that the "super congress" will come up with something similar to the "gang of 6" proposal. If doesn't pass automatic budget cuts (defense and social security included) will happen across the board. This will force the GOP to go along to save their precious military dollars and the Dems will have to go along to save their safety net dollars.

Personally I thought it was a pretty crafty move.

Edit: I'm posting in a Joker v Montashu thread!

 

[sanjuro]

I know this was discussed briefly in the debt thread, but this deserves its own debate. The new 12-person 'super congress' is scary as hell.

- The policy that comes out of the committee cannot be filibustered or altered, and gets a fast track to the white house for approval.

- It moves legislative control from ~300 members of congress and puts it into the hands of 12. This is removing the 'direct' line of representation from citizen to policy deciding rep and making essentially severing the connection between the citizen and legislation.

- From what I can gather, this committee is being given a unilateral control for 'important' legislation. There is no definition of important, so I would expect to see heavy usage of this committee.

- It removes the voice of any non-main party representatives from debate. This is locking the power in legislation into the two parties and their leaders.

How are the news media and educated people in this country not screaming from the roofs at this? This must be unconstitutional, as it breaks the purpose of legislative representation.

All I can see coming of this is the creation of a totalitarian regime- all power is being concentrated into a central few. This is worse than the 300 we had to deal with prior, there are now 13 people deciding what laws are made...

Is anybody else even remotely concerned about this? Imho, this is far scarier than the debt ceiling issue. This is playing out that the debt ceiling was a smoke and mirrors ploy to get these powers passed. It's very reminiscent of the Partiot acts' re-signing.

When did the filibuster become the sign of democracy?

 

[rockofullr]

Here's the simplest explanation of the "super committee" that I could find. Joker, you are over estimating it's powers.

This group, to be named from the House and Senate in two weeks, must find at least $1.2 trillion in budget cuts by Thanksgiving and Congress must approve them by year's end - or take the blame for deep and broad spending cuts that would strike GOP priorities like defense and Democratic favorites like programs for the poor.

from: http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_SHOWDOWN_WHAT_NOW?SITE=NDBIS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-03-03-06-16

 

[dante]

I **LOVE** the concept. No bullsh!t silent filibuster. No stupid abortion amendments at the last minute to act as a poison pill. Everybody gets an up or down vote on it, so it's not even like they get additional authority than they would otherwise have.

Hey, maybe we'll get some actual debt reduction out of this?

 

[X3pilot]

I **LOVE** the concept. No bullsh!t silent filibuster. No stupid abortion amendments at the last minute to act as a poison pill. Everybody gets an up or down vote on it, so it's not even like they get additional authority than they would otherwise have.

Hey, maybe we'll get some actual debt reduction out of this?

I wouldn't count on it yet....

Can the new super committee tasked with cutting the deficit succeed where previous groups tackling the issue failed?

Members of the Senate's bipartisan "Gang of Six," which struggled to craft a compromise this year, aren't too optimistic, given the hardening of partisan lines on both sides of the bitter debate.

"I really worry whether this super committee is going to get something done," Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., said on MSNBC's Daily Rundown on Tuesday.

The Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, as it will formally be known, will face a guaranteed vote in both chambers if a deal is reached. Without a deal, guaranteed across-the-board cuts would kick in.

"One thing I am concerned about is the enforcement mechanism at the end and whether it is strong enough," Sen. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, said Monday on the same show. "If we put something out, it has to be held."

Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., a gang member, said on MSNBC's Morning Joe on Tuesday that he expects neither side to give much ground.

"I don't expect the committee to come up with anything, number one, because ... there's going to be firm positions on both sides," Coburn said. "I don't expect the sequestrations to work either."

Linky

 

[dante]

So the "penalties" kick in and we slash our bloated defense budget and make cuts to Medicare providers. Works for me as well.....

 

[TheMontashu]

When did the filibuster become the sign of democracy?

When the government started making policies the joker doesn't like DDUUUHHhhh

 

[rockofullr]

I wouldn't count on it yet....

Linky

So the "penalties" kick in and we slash our bloated defense budget and make cuts to Medicare providers. Works for me as well.....

The threat of cuts to sacred budget items is enough to make this work. As for the committee not agreeing on anything, I doubt that will be the issue. It's easy enough to make 12 people happy. When every congressmen in the House wants it his way... that's when we have stalemates.

 

[stoney]

When did the filibuster become the sign of democracy?

It's always been a sign. If you can't get enough votes to pass legislation, then you need to go back to the drawing board. If the topic is pertinent enough for a filibuster to stop all proceedings, then it needs to be a viable option.

 

[stoney]

When the government started making policies the joker doesn't like DDUUUHHhhh

There are very few govt policies I like. Legislating morality is a biggie, the creating of loopholes giving those in power the ability to bypass laws not of their liking, and our inability to actually secure our borders while using out military to invade foreign countries.

 

[jimmydean]

...our inability to actually secure our borders while using out military to invade foreign countries.

If we invade Canada, we can do both. Just saying.

 

[stoney]

If we invade Canada, we can do both. Just saying.

Then we have to deal with Montreal. It's not worth it.

 

[kidwoo]

Now taking submissions for the freaky sexual act that will be soon known as "doing the super congress"

 

[TheMontashu]

It's always been a sign. If you can't get enough votes to pass legislation, then you need to go back to the drawing board. If the topic is pertinent enough for a filibuster to stop all proceedings, then it needs to be a viable option.

Except the republican party have turned filibusters into something much different, not it's a 60 person majority..... Once again, quite sickning

 

[stoney]

Now taking submissions for the freaky sexual act that will be soon known as "doing the super congress"

****ing women, children, the elderly and pretty much anyone else born with an asshole, while lighting cigars with $1000 stacks and giving out hi-fives to your buddies?

 

[sanjuro]

Except the republican party have turned filibusters into something much different, not it's a 60 person majority..... Once again, quite sickning

Getting ill. Agreeing with mooshoo. Got to puke.

 

[rockofullr]

****ing women, children, the elderly and pretty much anyone else born with an asshole, while lighting cigars with $1000 stacks and giving out hi-fives to your buddies?

I'm off to 4chan with jonKranked to see if we can find a picture.

Rule 34 b!tches

 

[kidwoo]

****ing women, children, the elderly and pretty much anyone else born with an asshole, while lighting cigars with $1000 stacks and giving out hi-fives to your buddies?

I like it!!

 

[stevew]

****ing women, children, the elderly and pretty much anyone else born with an asshole, while lighting cigars with $1000 stacks and giving out hi-fives to your buddies?

personal story?

 

[chillindrdude]

i wished i could move to canada. *sigh*

 

[stoney]

personal story?

Well the ****ing women while hi-fiving buddies, yeah. But that's it... there were no cigars, but possibly a few beers in hand.

 

[rockofullr]

Anyone following the Super Fail over in the Super Committee?

"No decisions or agreement has been reached concerning any announcement or how this will end," one senior Democratic aide said. "But, yes, the likely outcome is no agreement will be reached."

'Super committee' headed for failure, aides concede - CNN.com

lol

 

[Dartman]

Super Congressman...

Non Sequitur Comic Strip, November 13, 2011 on GoComics.com

 

[rockofullr]

^^^ So funny I could cry