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Super Corn

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,923
10
Your face.
Dobermann's are cheaper, at $550 for the Pinscher, 750 for the Molosse and 1k for the MBF (but its ridiculously nicely made).
Handmade in Quebec too.

 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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for those of you unaware, these Superco frames are made by none other than Chris Boudreaux, mastermind behind the BMW racelink, hitman, mini-link... His skills are some of the BEST in the business, and the quality of his frames is unsurpassed. I was fortunate enough to ride both bikes when they were still in prototype phase. Even as protos, they were just as clean and refined if not moreso than a good number of production frames.


Not to mention both frames are under 5 lbs....
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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cause they dont know anything about fabrication, materials and just how not-easy a "hardtail" frame is.
anyone can make a hardtail. making good hardtail requires effort. making a GREAT hardtail requires waaaaaaay more than effort. What you see here are 2 great hardtails.
 

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
342
0
Portland, Or
anyone can make a hardtail. making good hardtail requires effort. making a GREAT hardtail requires waaaaaaay more than effort. What you see here are 2 great hardtails.
Im sorry but that isnt $750 worth of effort:crazy:. Its not a custom geo bike... I can see expense in one off bikes. A production hardtail doesnt need to cost that much. i dont car whos making it. Its a sick looking bike no doubt, Im not taking that away from it, but quite expensive! Its a HARDTAIL!
 

ThePriceSeliger

Mushhead
Mar 31, 2004
4,861
0
Denver, Colorado
I really like those bikes, but 750 with no custom input is a little steap. My NemPro I'm getting is 650 with alot of custom input into it. Of course, I have to wait longer, but it's exactly how I want it.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
The pain from the expense vanishes,the pain from not getting what you wanted bites you every time you ride the second choice bike you bought to save some moolah that you probably blew on something perishable or stupid anyway.
They're tiny little Battle Axes just waiting to rip. I dig em.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,941
28
Roanoke, VA
Im sorry but that isnt $750 worth of effort:crazy:. Its not a custom geo bike... I can see expense in one off bikes. A production hardtail doesnt need to cost that much. i dont car whos making it. Its a sick looking bike no doubt, Im not taking that away from it, but quite expensive! Its a HARDTAIL!
Yes, it really iDOES need to be that expensive. I/we/Spooky aren't planning on making steel bikes for this application because of attitudes like this(at least not for the US market). The tubes alone on the Superco's (Truetemper Supertherm) would cost about $230. Add in the gussets, yokes drops and braces (laser or water-jet cutting, bending, possibly CNC time) a custom head tube and bb shell (raw materials+ machine time), paint applied up to enviromental standars, and you end up with a bike that costs a lot of money. The lights need to stay on in the shop. The machines need electricity. Argon isn't free. Chris and Terry need to eat and a home to live in...

For me to sell a hardtail for this application, that is made equally nicely, and have both a margin for me, and a dealer or distributor, the retail price would need to be closer to $1,000 than $500

As someone who runs a machine shop I would think you'd get this?

American's don't seem very willing to pay the price for American made goods anymore. Luckily the rest of the developed world is.

Foreign consumers actually have considerably more real purchasing power, since Real Wages in America have barely increased (and in many cases decreased) since the mid-60's.

Luckily the british, aussies and Japs's like small hardtails way more than Americans anyway...
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Im sorry but that isnt $750 worth of effort:crazy:. Its not a custom geo bike... I can see expense in one off bikes. A production hardtail doesnt need to cost that much. i dont car whos making it. Its a sick looking bike no doubt, Im not taking that away from it, but quite expensive! Its a HARDTAIL!
Custom or not, I'd like to see YOU design a bike with better geometry.

Oh and Mickey, only the front triangle is true temper supertherm, the rear triangle is true temper platinum. :clue:
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,941
28
Roanoke, VA
Custom or not, I'd like to see YOU design a bike with better geometry.

Oh and Mickey, only the front triangle is true temper supertherm, the rear triangle is true temper platinum. :clue:
And that still means they pay more for a chainstay than Specialized does for an entire Chromo frame....
 

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
342
0
Portland, Or
Yes, it really iDOES need to be that expensive. I/we/Spooky aren't planning on making steel bikes for this application because of attitudes like this(at least not for the US market). The tubes alone on the Superco's (Truetemper Supertherm) would cost about $230. Add in the gussets, yokes drops and braces (laser or water-jet cutting, bending, possibly CNC time) a custom head tube and bb shell (raw materials+ machine time), paint applied up to enviromental standars, and you end up with a bike that costs a lot of money. The lights need to stay on in the shop. The machines need electricity. Argon isn't free. Chris and Terry need to eat and a home to live in...

For me to sell a hardtail for this application, that is made equally nicely, and have both a margin for me, and a dealer or distributor, the retail price would need to be closer to $1,000 than $500

As someone who runs a machine shop I would think you'd get this?

American's don't seem very willing to pay the price for American made goods anymore. Luckily the rest of the developed world is.

Foreign consumers actually have considerably more real purchasing power, since Real Wages in America have barely increased (and in many cases decreased) since the mid-60's.

Luckily the british, aussies and Japs's like small hardtails way more than Americans anyway...
$230?? F*ck!, Ok... i stand corrected. i didnt realize tube sets were that expensive! I was basing my opinion off what ive seen material sell for and that just seems nuts, but if thats what tubesets cost then a price like that is completely justified.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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$230?? F*ck!, Ok... i stand corrected. i didnt realize tube sets were that expensive! I was basing my opinion off what ive seen material sell for and that just seems nuts, but if thats what tubesets cost then a price like that is completely justified.
yea most companies use straight 4130 chromo because its inexpensive and relatively easy to work with. Materials like the ones used for the superco bikes are not only more expensive, but harder to work with, and require much more patience, skill, and experience. The end result, however, is exquisite.

Like the old engineering adage goes, it can be light, strong, and cheap. Choose 2.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,941
28
Roanoke, VA
Yeah, even straightgauge 4130 has gone through the roof in the last 5 months or so. Expect '09 bike prices to go up across the board in every sector. Even in Taiwan finished frame prices have gone up ~14% in the last 4 months. Right now that means the big companies are starting to eat into their margins for sales they have already booked.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Yeah, even straightgauge 4130 has gone through the roof in the last 5 months or so. Expect '09 bike prices to go up across the board in every sector. Even in Taiwan finished frame prices have gone up ~14% in the last 4 months. Right now that means the big companies are starting to eat into their margins for sales they have already booked.
its not just the bike industry. I work for a major toy company, and our overhead rates have gone up about 13% across the board.

Oh, and China is finally implementing a miniumum wage this year. so EVERYTHING is gonna start going up.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Crap...with China now having a minimum wage, the world is screwed!
Pretty much. There's a bunch of economic factors there, but this is one of the major ones. Another major problem they're having over there is the fact that so many of the farmers who live inland (and subsequently feed China's astronomical population) are moving to coastal areas where manufacturing is done - because it pays better. Less people farming --> less food --> growing demand (growing population) --> decreasing supply --> food prices going up. So now the gov't is talking about subsidizing farming and all sorts of other things so they can continue to have reasonably priced food. Its nuts over there.
 

tmx

aka chromegoddess
Mar 16, 2003
1,683
2
Portland
Wow. I'm deeply touched by the support and grateful for the knowledge dropped in here.

It can be somewhat painful to read the price-hating posts and assumptions behind them. I understand these folks aren't aware of everything required to get the final product completed and sold. Nor are they privvy to the varying costs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Nor should they necessarily expect to be made aware any more than a car buyer would get the break-down from Ferrari as to why an Enzo is more expensive than a Chevy Aveo.

Presently, our bike sales are just about covering operating costs without salary. I have another full time job to cover food and shelter.

Given the economy and subsequent reduction to spending on luxury items (as bikes are considered to be), I wouldn't be surprised if we'll need that outside paycheck for quite some time ahead. ...Although now that I say it I realize my paying job is also considered a luxury (movie biz) so uh...yeah, well..we'll see how it all goes, eh? (LOL!!)

By the way, I laughed out loud at your thread title w00dy. It's attrocious and I love it. Albeit a little pre-mature for the DH forum...but appreciate the props none-the-less.
 

Stoked

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2004
1,813
1
LI, NY
By the way, I laughed out loud at your thread title w00dy. It's attrocious and I love it. Albeit a little pre-mature for the DH forum...but appreciate the props none-the-less.
word. i thought he was talking about bio-fuel or something. :banana:
 

chriscarleton

Monkey
Aug 4, 2007
366
0
Portland Maine
Let me remind anyone that has a problem with the price of this hardtail, that the MSRP on the Evil Imperial was I think $800 when they first came out, and it was one size with the same geometry across the board. Judging by the popularity of the Evil picture thread in this forum, I think it's totally ridiculous to say that this type of frame is priced high.

Comparing Superco to Trek, Specialized, or even Giant complete bikes is like comparing apples and oranges. They are two completely different things. Superco is hand made in the US with extreme attention to detail. Trek, Specialized, and Giant are mass produced with little attention to detail and blah blah blah you know the rest.
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,129
223
Chapel Hill, NC
Just to clarify on my earlier post. I was merely commenting on the erroneous price comparison between the MOB and the Superco frames. I was in no way slagging the Superco frames. They are beautiful and even though $750 is the upper limit on what I would pay for a steel hardtail, I would fork it over for one of those.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
Let me remind anyone that has a problem with the price of this hardtail, that the MSRP on the Evil Imperial was I think $800 when they first came out, and it was one size with the same geometry across the board. Judging by the popularity of the Evil picture thread in this forum, I think it's totally ridiculous to say that this type of frame is priced high.
And the Imperial was made with much cheaper tubing. Nothing against Evil, but high-end steel tubes cost more, period.