[Mr Big]

does anybody know what a super d course is? norba is now doing these races. i have heard that its like a freeride race. i have also heard its a cross-country downhill. we are thinking about putting one on next year, but i have no idea what the hell a super d is. can anybody give me a link or some info if you have raced one. thanks

 

[PsychO!1]

NORBAs definition...

"The Super D is a hybrid cross-country/downhill competition. This race can be contested with individual starts, as in downhill events, or a Le Mans mass start. The course should be 12-20 minutes in length and the start should be higher in altitude than the finish line. Courses should have significantly more descending than climbing, be void of any jumps, and not be extremely technical. A full-suspension cross-country bike would be ideal for this type of race.

 

[mtnbikej]

It is basically a DH race where there is a bit of small climbs. No need for full DH rig. A short travel bike is the way to go. Something like the Heckler would be perfect.

The first one they ran in Big Bear the year before last, the guy that won it was on a Superlight.

For Big Bear, the majority of the course is on the 12hr XC course......mostly downhill with a few really short little climbs: get outta the saddle and hammer.

mtnbikej

 

[bomberz1qr20]

Originally posted by PsychO!1
NORBAs definition...

" The course should be 12-20 minutes in length and the start should be higher in altitude than the finish line."

12-20 minutes....

How many miles is that?

 

[Fury]

Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
12-20 minutes....

How many miles is that?

Probably depends on how fast the course is.

 

[bigbirdie]

I see Mt. Snow has added it to their race schedule.

http://www.mountsnow.com/summer/norba/raceschedule.html

 

[Mr Big]

i am not sure this will go over well, because they want to cancel the dh race for this. the way it was told to me is that i could build jumps, skinnies and other obsticals. that sounded fun. i dont even own a cross-country rig.

Originally posted by PsychO!1
NORBAs definition...

"The Super D is a hybrid cross-country/downhill competition. This race can be contested with individual starts, as in downhill events, or a Le Mans mass start. The course should be 12-20 minutes in length and the start should be higher in altitude than the finish line. Courses should have significantly more descending than climbing, be void of any jumps, and not be extremely technical. A full-suspension cross-country bike would be ideal for this type of race.

 

[MikeD]

Some more info here.

Don't think "northshore" for Super D. Think "DH race circa 1993."

MD

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by MikeD
Think "DH race circa 1993."

That's exactly what sprung to mind when I read that description... who else remembers when DH races has a significant amount of climbing too

 

[Slugman]

Originally posted by Rik
That's exactly what sprung to mind when I read that description... who else remembers when DH races has a significant amount of climbing too

I remember my first DH fork - 3" of travel baby!!!

 

[buildyourown]

For those o you in the Northwest, that sounds like a WIM course. Who new WIM was way ahead of everyone by building lame courses.

 

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by MikeD
Think "DH race circa 1993."MD

with all the new technology now, i really dont see the point of this race. it seems to me like a xc race for sprinters.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by azonicist
with all the new technology now, i really dont see the point of this race. it seems to me like a xc race for sprinters.

No, it's a DH race for people without DH bikes or experience...

 

[dromond]

Originally posted by azonicist
with all the new technology now, i really dont see the point of this race. it seems to me like a xc race for sprinters.

So what if it's a DH xc race? Sounds fast and fun, not that I have the lungs for it

 

[DirtEveryDay]

Actually, i think it is intended to be a race for ALL riders from any background to run against each other. Where else can the hardcore, big hit types run against the diehard XC pedalers? I think it will be good, clean fun for all, and a chance to see who can really shine here. DH races have gotten to be more about the equipment and less about the skills required, and XC races are flat and friggin boring. It will be kinda fun to watch the look on the face of some champion XC rider with his 12 pound bike, heart rate monitor, and energy bars get annihilated by a 50+ pound bike with so much suspension his BB is dragging dirt across the finish line.

 

[dromond]

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
...It will be kinda fun to watch the look on the face of some champion XC rider with his 12 pound bike, heart rate monitor, and energy bars get annihilated by a 50+ pound bike with so much suspension his BB is dragging dirt across the finish line.

You act as though that will be what's going to happen, I'm not so sure. But it does sound like a cool event.

 

[DirtEveryDay]

My understanding is that it will be a more challenging/techy XC course and a less techy DH course. I can't think of anything I would rather be on than a heavy, spongy, STABLE DH bike. I mean geez, those courses sound like most of the transitions for the big drops here(not me, I haven't gotten to that level yet!)! But seriously, I think it will be a super fun, less competitive race. I just hope it doesn't start a new war between the big hitters and the XC guys. That's getting old, atleast here, anyways.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
Actually, i think it is intended to be a race for ALL riders from any background to run against each other. Where else can the hardcore, big hit types run against the diehard XC pedalers? I think it will be good, clean fun for all, and a chance to see who can really shine here. DH races have gotten to be more about the equipment and less about the skills required, and XC races are flat and friggin boring. It will be kinda fun to watch the look on the face of some champion XC rider with his 12 pound bike, heart rate monitor, and energy bars get annihilated by a 50+ pound bike with so much suspension his BB is dragging dirt across the finish line.

Yeah, that's not really going to happen at all. It's a nice thought, I guess, but just not possible (especially with a 'champion' XC racer).

I think XC racers go a hell of a lot faster, both uphill and down, than most people want to give them credit for. And XC racing is far from 'flat,' either...but maybe you meant non-technical, which is indeed the unfortunate case in a lot of venues.

There's no way DH racing is about equipment more than rider skill, either. Lots of people wish it was that way (me included, I guess), because then we could buy our way to a podium, but it's just not true.

Super D is pretty much its own animal, and as I've mentioned before, it's pretty venue/course-specific as far as what types of bikes and riders are optimal. All in all, tho, NO Super D course is going to favor a rider on "a 50+ pound bike with so much suspension his BB is dragging dirt across the finish line," and unless he's racing against someone of vastly inferior fitness and skill, he's gonna lose.

MD

 

[dromond]

I heard some talk about the SuperD course at Mount Snow. It was suggested that a 4-5" trailbike might be ideal. I'm fer chrissakes there's supposed to be some climbing. There's no way a dh rig will be optimal.

 

[phillyvanilly]

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
Actually, i think it is intended to be a race for ALL riders from any background to run against each other. Where else can the hardcore, big hit types run against the diehard XC pedalers? I think it will be good, clean fun for all, and a chance to see who can really shine here. DH races have gotten to be more about the equipment and less about the skills required, and XC races are flat and friggin boring. It will be kinda fun to watch the look on the face of some champion XC rider with his 12 pound bike, heart rate monitor, and energy bars get annihilated by a 50+ pound bike with so much suspension his BB is dragging dirt across the finish line.

I think it could be fun as well and it could be a good motivation for more downhillers to train if it becomes more common. As far as downhill being about the equipment Im gonna have to go ahead and disagree there, everyone racing DH seriously has the equipment, so thats sorta like saying F1 is all about the car and not the driver. The fact that the equipment continues to improve just steps up the level of competition and speed for everyone. As for cross country, its hard to bored when youve got a race to win and you are going all out.

 

[Full Trucker]

At one of our regional races last year in Colorado, we were unable to build a 'new school' DH course because of the local U.S. Forest Service, and had to use an existing XC trail as the DH course. The trail was 4+ miles long and would have been PERFECT for a Super-D.

It was smooth except for one rock, had no jumps, tons of turns and switchbacks and was a SERIOUS pedal-fest. We thought a lot of people would bitch, but as it turned out, even though the course was easy to ride, it was hard to ride FAST. It not only tested the fitness of the rider, but definite cornering ability with the multitude of 180 degree switchbacks. There were two minor stretches of climbing, but nothing you couldn't do on a full DH bike.

Mick Hannah showed up and won with a time of 10:05.81... pretty much letting anyone that was complaining know just what it takes to be a top WC rider, skills-wise and fitness wise.

I say bring on the Super-D.

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Full Trucker
At one of our regional races last year in Colorado, we were unable to build a 'new school' DH course because of the local U.S. Forest Service, and had to use an existing XC trail as the DH course. The trail was 4+ miles long and would have been PERFECT for a Super-D.

It was smooth except for one rock, had no jumps, tons of turns and switchbacks and was a SERIOUS pedal-fest. We thought a lot of people would bitch, but as it turned out, even though the course was easy to ride, it was hard to ride FAST. It not only tested the fitness of the rider, but definite cornering ability with the multitude of 180 degree switchbacks. There were two minor stretches of climbing, but nothing you couldn't do on a full DH bike.

Mick Hannah showed up and won with a time of 10:05.81... pretty much letting anyone that was complaining know just what it takes to be a top WC rider, skills-wise and fitness wise.

I say bring on the Super-D.

I want to see it included in an overall, gravity omnium. Crown the best of the best. Mountain cross, slalom, Downhill, super D.

Bring on the new hero. (my money is on cedric or hanna)

 

[dromond]

Originally posted by Full Trucker
We thought a lot of people would bitch, but as it turned out, even though the course was easy to ride, it was hard to ride FAST.

I think that perhaps that's one reason I don't really feel like complaining about many race courses. I mean everyone has to race the same course, so what does it matter? The challenge should be who is the fastest, not who can make it down without dieing

 

[Mr Big]

Originally posted by THRILLSEEKA
Actually, i think it is intended to be a race for ALL riders from any background to run against each other. Where else can the hardcore, big hit types run against the diehard XC pedalers? I think it will be good, clean fun for all, and a chance to see who can really shine here.

this is what i was looking for. it does sound fun

 

[PsychO!1]

We've had races here in Washington just like this for several years. Except they're called "gravity assited XC"...which I feel is a better description of what the race is really like.
It's all about who can 'trail ride' the fastest, by limiting the fitness advantage hardcore XC'er have. There are alot of very fast XC racers out there who have no bike handling skills, this will level the feild a bit.

Just my 2cents...