[Jr_Bullit]

G'morning

Question for you healthy nuts out there...how many of you supplement to improve your physique/strength/musculature etc?

I'm fairly certain this is a habit of guys more than girls, but I'm looking at two things in particular that I'm curious about.

1) Glucosamine - I have horrible knees from a lot of injuries as a kid (torn tendons, etc). While I run well, and long, and all that, towards the end of my runs my knee caps feel loose (oh man I hate that feeling, have had it since the first time I blew my knees) and it's rather painful. I've also had several back injuries, my ankles roll easily, and hips hurt when I go hiking or pushing my bike. Generally I'm pretty good with pain, but constant pain gets tiresome and really is no fun. I'm not a) in the mood and b) don't have the time to have my knees worked on by the docs - i.e. surgery. My mom takes Glucosamine for her hips (which are also very bad) and she says it helps a lot. Do any of you? From what I've read it's more like a vitamin supplement and shouldn't have side-effects, and I do currently supplement my diet with vitamins to help with my energy levels.

2) Hydroxycut- the ephedrine free version of this stuff. I'm not so sure that this is something I'm even seriously considering...it's spendy, and I'm already pretty fit. My girlfriend tried it after having it recommended to her by her recruiting officer at the Marines. She's heavier for her height (also 5.1) and doesn't have the history of athletics that I do. Struggles with running, struggles with losing weight, etc. In order to Dep in she needed to drop 15lbs fast and build the right kind of muscle to hold her own. She made it, depped in successfully, and immediately started recommending this stuff to me as a way for me to finish toning up the few areas I'm struggling with (namely the tummy and tush muscles) and keep my energy levels up which are decreasing rapidly as I continue to push long hours at work plus a full time load at school. I don't really think I have a need for this sort of thing - as my doc already confirmed my iron stores are low again and I'm probably tired as a result, but after hearing her talk the world of it, I'm curious about it. What's it do? How can it be a healthy form of making your body do what you want?

I've always fallen in the camp of being fit is a lifestyle thing, no pill will get you there and keep the results you want. But I'm starting to learn that some things (like vitamins) help a lot. What do you all think?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Of all the things to find on the news today

The Associated Press
Updated: 12:26 p.m. ET Dec. 30, 2003WASHINGTON -

The federal government announced on Tuesday a ban on the sale of ephedra, an herbal supplement used for weight control that has been linked to a number of deaths and harmful side effects.

Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson said that “based on the best possible scientific evidence” his agency would issue a consumer alert about the dangers of ephedra and will send notices to manufacturers to stop selling the herbs.

“The time to stop taking this product is now,” he said.

“They are just too risky to use,” said the secretary.

Ban takes effect in 60 days
Thompson said the decision was “well grounded” and based on extensive scientific study. The ban would take effect in 60 days.

“I don’t want people turning to ephedra thinking they could lose weight,” Thompson told a news conference.

Mark McClellan, head of the Food and Drug Administration, said his agency is notifying consumers and manufacturers that it will publish a rule making it illegal to sell and use ephedra.

He said the agency was concerned about young people and athletes looking to ephedra to boost their performance. Use of the supplement has led to serious health effects, he said.

“We’re sending a strong and clear signal” that such products should come off the market, McClellan said.

McClellan said the FDA reviewed major studies of ephedra and publicly issued findings about the herb. He said the publication received thousands of comment and expressions of support for taking the product off the market.

The rule will go into effect in 60 days “and have the practical effect” of banning ephedra, he said.

“Ephedra raises your blood pressure and stresses your system,” McClellan said. “There are far better, safer ways, to get in shape.”

Deaths blamed on stimulant
Critics called the federal crackdown too late. Sales nationwide already have plummeted because of publicity about roughly 155 deaths blamed on the amphetamine-like stimulant, including Baltimore Orioles baseball player Steve Bechler earlier this year. Ephedra is linked to heart attacks and strokes, even when used by outwardly healthy people at recommended doses, because it speeds heart rate and constricts blood vessels.

Ernie Bechler, Steve’s father in Medford, Ore., said he was awakened by a phone call around 6 a.m. local time with word of the decision.

“It’s the only thing that could make my wife and I be happy,” he said. “Nothing else could have done what this is doing. I mean to get this off the market and to save other peoples’ lives is just amazing to us.”

Ernie Bechler testified in Congress, urging a ban. “That’s the last thing I said: 'Please don’t let my son die in vain.”’

At the news conference, McClellan said FDA has spent months “scouring all of the adverse effects reports.” The decision was not based on adverse effects alone, he said, but also on clinical studies and expert opinion and review.

“It is the totality of the evidence” that was used to make the decision, McClellan said.

FDA to defend action in court
McClellan said the FDA was prepared to defend the action in court.

He said his agency was working as quickly as it can under the current law regulating diet supplements. “We are laying the strongest possible foundation to not only take the product off the market, but to keep it off,” McClellan said.

Thompson said the agency “was crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i'" to make sure the action stands up in court. “We are taking every procedural accountability standard” to make sure the ban withstands court tests, he said.

McClellan said his agency has done extensive work to “make sure we can use all of our authority” to keep ephedra off the market.

Thompson said that three states already have banned ephedra and “this is the next giant step” in taking the supplement off the market.

New York, Illinois and California — have passed their own ephedra bans; use has been banned in professional football, college athletics and minor-league baseball, and several retail chains, including supplement giant General Nutrition Centers, recently quit selling it, too.

“It’s a dead product and unfortunately it has become a dead product over the backs of a lot of dead people when the FDA could have acted before,” said Dr. Sidney Wolfe of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen, which petitioned the government for a ban in 2001.

The supplement industry’s Council for Responsible Nutrition said it didn’t oppose a ban, noting that very few companies still make the stimulant — its members who once did no longer do so.

“We think the reputable players have found so much controversy and difficulty in this marketplace that they’ve decided to get out of it,” said CRN’s John Hathcock. “We recognize the controversy is a cloud over our whole industry.”

Manufacturers insist product is safe
Remaining ephedra manufacturers didn’t immediately comment Tuesday, but have insisted that studies prove their products safe when used properly.

“Anyone who has read our label knows that we go to great lengths to inform our customers about the proper use of our products,” Metabolife International chief executive Russell Schreck said over the summer.

But several scientists said that it was impossible to prove whether ephedra was safe because studies screen out participants who have health problems — the people most likely to be hurt by the product.

The General Accounting Office, Congress’ investigative arm, looked into the issue and found many people who reported problems had followed the label’s instructions.

The government ban, one of the first involving a dietary supplement, comes after Thompson this summer urged Congress to rewrite a law that rolled back dietary-supplement regulations and to require manufacturers to acknowledge potential side effects.

Because ephedra is an herb, U.S. law let it sell over-the-counter with little oversight unless the FDA could prove a clear danger to public health. Manufacturers blocked a 1997 FDA attempt to restrict sales of certain dosages and to put warning labels on the herb by arguing the agency lacked enough proof of danger.

In March, FDA again proposed those warnings and said it would re-examine a ban.

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[I Are Baboon]

I have heard glucosamine helps with joint pain, although I have no first hand experience myself (I don't have joint problems).

I've heard mixed reviews about ephedra-free Hydroxycut. Again, I have never used it myself.

I take some supplements to complement my weight training. I use protein powder, flax seed oil, creatine, and multi-vitamins. I've tried a few other things recently, with mixed results:

-Beta3: Used for fat loss. Works by boosting metabolism and insulin sensitivity. It did help, but I am lean to begin with, so my results were limited.
-Guggulsterones: Another fat loss catalyst, helps weight loss by keeping your BMR up. Saw limited results.
-Arachidonic Acid: Helps increase lean muscle mass by keeping your muscles charged during workouts.
-SwoleV.2: Is a form of creatine. I will use this product again once my regular creatine runs out.

The protwin powder I use also has L-glutamine in it. Another powder I use contains NO2.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

1. Glucosamine - thinking about taking it myself. From what I understand, you will either notice a positive difference, or non at all. I don't think there are negative side affects.

2. Hydroxycut - I've considered it.... but there is too much we don't know about it. I know people who take it - and it changes their personalities. It's like being hopped up on caffeine - permanently. I just don't think it's safe -IMHO.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I have used both the ephedra and ephedra free versions of Hydroxy cut, and a few other similar products. I am a naturally fat person. Before I started MTBing religously (when I was just a once a weekend warrior) I was 5 10, and 225lbs, with a 38" waist. Along with picking up the amount of riding 3-5 times a week, I also started a light (as in weight and time, just 10-15 minutes daily) free weight workout. During my 6 month transformation each time my body hit a plateau starting or restarting the "Supplement" helped get the weight loss kicking again. I hit one such plateau during the summer, when all the hoopla of Ephedra hit the fan. As a result I tried the non-ephedra version. The ephedra version is more effective that is for sure. However I would use it strictly as directed and never prior to me going out for a ride. That hole heat stroke thing in South Florida is serious, with or without Ephedra. I would use it more to keep my metabolism rocking AFTER I rode.

If you are sensitive to things like sugar, caffeine or taurine (Redbull) I would certainly take it easy when trying either version of Hydroxy-cut. I remember one morning my dog started barking at something in the middle of my morning routine getting ready for work. As a result I took a double dose of the Ephedra version, I did not realize it until 20 minutes int my drive to work my mind and body were freaking racing for the next 2 hours.

I would not recommend making them a part of your daily vitamin ritual for any length of time, but if you want a jump start on getting your metabolism to the next level they can be effective.

 

[Heidi]

I was taking Glucosamine for my knee pain but I didn't really notice a difference after about 4 months so I quit.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by MtnBikerChk
2. Hydroxycut - I've considered it.... but there is too much we don't know about it. I know people who take it - and it changes their personalities. It's like being hopped up on caffeine - permanently. I just don't think it's safe -IMHO. [/B]

If you really want the "hopped-up" feeling the muscle head at the Vitamin Depot recommended taking a low dosage asprin along with my Ephedra Hydroxy-cut. I considered it for about .32143 of a second until I noticed his 2nd head coming out of his shoulder from the mass amounts of steroids he had probably taken. Not to mention he was wearing spandex shorts along with his Vitamin Depot polo shirt.

it was a good look for him.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Interesting! Thanks for your thoughts . I'm going to try the Glucosamine for a few months. It seems to work for my family - so maybe it will help in my case, though I do recognize that my knee problems are truly due to sustained injuries and not due to everyday wear and tear. There will be a day when I have to have them surgically corrected, but I'd rather push that day off as far as possible .

As for other muscle enhancers, probably won't be going that direction any time soon. Hydroxycut is a possibility, but I really hesitate at taking anything that could potentially be mind-altering, or damaging in the long-run. I give props to my friend who took them and managed to drop her weight and put on the kind of muscle required for her to dep into the Marines...but I'm definitely a more casual athlete, sticking to my daily runs and rides, hikes, and eventually rock climbing. If my energy level can't keep up then perhaps there are other alternatives out there . I'm pretty lean for a girl to begin with, so I would suspect taking something like this could lead to...ehr...unwanted results.

Isn't Creotine the stuff that sort of "pumps up" your muscles? The stuff that if you don't continually maintain the effects are lost fairly quickly after you stop? A coworker of mine takes creotine and he basically looks all swollen, not strong ...just like one of those folks who thinks being big is the way to be...when in all actuality if you truly just worked out and were fit you'd be far more attractive in your natural state...

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
I'm pretty lean for a girl to begin with, so I would suspect taking something like this could lead to...ehr...unwanted results.

I couldnt find the little picture thing that says that this thread is useless without pics

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
I couldnt find the little picture thing that says that this thread is useless without pics

hrmph

well at least no one will ever accuse me of not having earned my custom title :

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Hey if I can deligently get my post count up and get you to post a picture my day has not been a total loss.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Okay, well back to the subject at hand...

While sitting there munching my banana the thought occurred to me..

How many people believe you can correct most of the "physical" problems people have through changing of the diet?

For example - hypoglycemia and diabetes run in my family big time...so as a result my doc has started paying attention to the amount of water that I drink per day (2.5 litres), and I'm trying to cut out sugar during the work day (never really an issue at night) to cut out the huge surges and drops in my blood sugar level that occur as a result...

Iron deficiency is also a trait in my family (yes I come from a Wonderful genetic heritage - aint it great?) and as I really dislike and don't eat red-meat, and have white meat maybe once a week (maybe), my iron stores have a tendency to ride at bare minimum and I've been anemic once (way not fun)...well the whole tiredness thing is starting to feel like it did when I was anemic...so I've started buying spinach and other dark green veggies for dinner, thus rather than having my usual romaine salad I get a darker green salad with other kinds of veggies thrown in...

What do you think? I mean...it seems silly to me (but maybe that's just cuz I'm a girl, I dunno) to take pills to 'fix' your body in the short term rather than adjusting your lifestyle in a more natural way and taking your time in fixing whatever it is that you feel is wrong...

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Isn't Creotine the stuff that sort of "pumps up" your muscles? The stuff that if you don't continually maintain the effects are lost fairly quickly after you stop? A coworker of mine takes creotine and he basically looks all swollen, not strong ...just like one of those folks who thinks being big is the way to be...when in all actuality if you truly just worked out and were fit you'd be far more attractive in your natural state...

Creatine givs your muscles more energy during workouts, so your muscles will look a little more pumped after workouts. Water retention is one common side affect, and it's the water retention that gives some users that "puffy" look. I don't retain water from creatine use, so I don't get that puffy look. People don't lose muscle mass after they stop taking it, they lose some water weight, which may cause them to look smaller.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Creatine givs your muscles more energy during workouts, so your muscles will look a little more pumped after workouts. Water retention is one common side affect, and it's the water retention that gives some users that "puffy" look. I don't retain water from creatine use, so I don't get that puffy look. People don't lose muscle mass after they stop taking it, they lose some water weight, which may cause them to look smaller.

What was the stuff, then, that ehr...the dude who played spider man took? (I'm not much on actors names) but I thought someone said he took something like creatine to get all big and pumped up looking for spiderman, and then stopped taking it after the movie was made in order to lose it all in time for seabiscuit where he had to be skinny and geeky again.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
What was the stuff, then, that ehr...the dude who played spider man took? (I'm not much on actors names) but I thought someone said he took something like creatine to get all big and pumped up looking for spiderman, and then stopped taking it after the movie was made in order to lose it all in time for seabiscuit where he had to be skinny and geeky again.

Tobey Maguire? I have no idea what he took. Could be any number of things, I guess. You can take all the drugs in the world, but you are not going to gain muscle if you are not hitting the weights.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Okay, well back to the subject at hand...

This is the ridemonkey forum right? I know I am new, but this could be the first thread I have seen that gets back to the subject

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
For example - hypoglycemia and diabetes run in my family big time...so as a result my doc has started paying attention to the amount of water that I drink per day (2.5 litres), and I'm trying to cut out sugar during the work day (never really an issue at night) to cut out the huge surges and drops in my blood sugar level that occur as a result...[/B]

I come from this same blood line, a while back I cut out sugar and products with added sugar (soda etc etc). After about 2 days of horrendous (sp?) headaches it really seemed to make a difference. After 2 weeks I really did not even crave sugar anymore. I was also much more alert during the day and did not have that 2/3pm crash where I wanted to crawl under my desk and go to sleep.

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Iron deficiency is also a trait in my family (yes I come from a Wonderful genetic heritage - aint it great?) and as I really dislike and don't eat red-meat, and have white meat maybe once a week (maybe), my iron stores have a tendency to ride at bare minimum and I've been anemic once (way not fun)...well the whole tiredness thing is starting to feel like it did when I was anemic...so I've started buying spinach and other dark green veggies for dinner, thus rather than having my usual romaine salad I get a darker green salad with other kinds of veggies thrown in...
[/B]

Can't help you here sorry. Meat... yummy

 

[ito]

I take glucosamine and while I'm not certain that it works as well as everyone says it does my recovery from ACL surgery is going faster than anyone else I know(and I know alot of people doing this recovery). My knees have also stopped popping alot since taking glucosamine, which could also be due to the fact that I don't mountain bike or run with my injury and am stretching more and lifting weights now.

It may work, I'm not sure though, it certainly doesn't hurt.

Stay away from Hydroxycut(which I'm assuming your planning on), it's bad news. From what I've heard you lose weight by taking it because it gets rid of water retention, basically dehydrating your body. It's not good for you if that's what you want to know.

My personal belief is that you can't get fitness from a box. It takes hard work and dedication to a healthy lifestyle. I drink alot of water and tea throughout my day, started doing this last spring and have noticed that I stay healthier and have not gotten sick in the last few months(I usually suffer from colds and the flu). Cutting out red meats(not all together, but I'm less likely to order a beef burrito or hamburger now) has also seemed to help. I don't have the proof to back it up and I don't claim to be a dietery expert, but I belief that adjusting one's diet can help releave health problems. I come from a family with heart disease, cancer, and high blood pressure histories so I want to keep my body healthy. Since last year my BP and Cholestral levels have gone down into the healthy range(I've always been physically fit, but had high levels and they have now dropped to normal). I say work on adjusting a diet and workout routines and your body will react, though it may take some time.

Your best bet is to keep it natural and talk with a number of dieticians and other health people.

Not sure about Creatine, it seems to work and be ok, but Hydroxy-cut just sounds dangerous to me and I'd refuse to use it.

The Ito

 

[geargrrl]

cooking in cast iron should help with iron, I have over the top iron count, also kept it up dduring my pregnancys.

I take a lot of omega 3's, my hubby likes the results form glucosamine, I didn't notive anything.

geargrrl

 

[zibbler]

Well, FWIW, here's what I've tried, and what works or didn't work for me.

Glutamine - This stuff is the bomb if you work out. It won't make your muscles bigger per se, but it greatly speeds recovery from workouts and boosts the immune system.

Glucosamine - I have very irratable joints. Bad back, messed up shoulder etc... this doesn't seem to do squat for me.

CLA - Supposed to be scientifically proven to aid fat loss... especially around the mid-section. Didn't do squat for me (except give me diarhea).

Protein shakes - to make sure I get enough protein because I don't have a very good appetite. Does the trick.

Herbal teas for sleep - I use a blend that has all the usual herbs to promote sleep, including valerian root, lemon balm, skullcap etc... I'm a terrible insomniac. If you check a lot of my posts they are in the wee hours of the morning. This does seem to help.

L-Carnitine - Supposed to be good for fat loss. Didn't notice any results, and the stuff is too expensive for lack of results.

ZMA - a combo of Zinc, Magnesium, and B6 in the proper ratio. Scientifiaclly proven to promote deep sleep and increase growth hormone. It helps me to a small degree, but not much. I still wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep, and the stuff gives me wicked diarhea (from the magnesium). I only take it occasionally with my herb teas, and only in a small dose.

Beyond that I take a multi-vitamin, chromium (to control blood sugar), Milk Thistle (to detox the liver), B-complex and various herbs as needed.

 

[Bonk]

GAINING MASS! - Anthony Ellis

"Do you recommend anything for joint pain?

As a suffer of chronic wrist and shoulder pain, I have found a few things to alleviate the pain and facilitate a fast recovery from training:

1) Gelatin
2) Adequate dietary fat (Preferably in the form of EFA's). Adequate fat is necessary for many body processes, but I don't know the exact reason it helps my joints, however, undeniably my joints ache when I amon a low fat diet. When I return to a normal 30% fat diet, the pain subsides.
3) Glucosamine and Chondroitin. Glucosamine helps to rebuild damaged cartilage. Chondroitin helps to enhance the elasticity and cushioning of joints. These supplements are usually packaged together and help temendously with speeding recovery and eliminationjoint pain and inflamation.
4) Vitamin C. Helps to repair connective tissue. High amountsare needed here for those training hard with little recovery time.
5) Try using the new supplement SaMe. Its original purpose was a perscription only anti-depressant, but it has recently become available over the counter and works miracles on people with arthritis, and chronic joint pain. It's the ONLY product that will totally elminate my carpel tunnel pain -- it has no side effects, but is fairly expensive.

All these products can be found at most health food stores."

 

[Bonk]

Things that are good for fat loss:

- Green Tea (EGCg)!!
- Reduce your intake of Simple Carbs: Sugar Fructose
- Do not eat Saturated/Trans-Fats with large amounts of Starchy/Sugary Carbs
- Try to eat more fiber
- Drink more water
- Limit or Eliminate Alcohol Consumption

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Bonk darling, you're beginning to scare us all as the poster boy for the spandex clad muscle bound GNC and weight gym poster boy.




(just teasing!)



The Glucosamine I picked is packaged with Chondroitin and MSM, I compared it to just plain ole Glucosamine and decided to go with the fancy schmancy version .

The others on your list: Vitamin C - well I get a little over the "daily" dose in my vitamins...so I'm gonna leave that one as is. Not sure about adding additional supplements yet for joint pain. I'll go talk to my doctor if the Glucosamine combination doesn't start to help. I did start taping my knees again when running - still in denial about breaking out those old knee braces...ick - and it's helping quite a bit too. Been many many years since I've taped up my joints, however, and oh boy am I rusty with pre-tape and athletic tape. A little bit of upward pressure on the outsides of my knee caps makes all the difference tho, so I'll just keep that up.

What I find most interesting is my body rarely, if ever, hurts from riding bikes (except of course when I crash )- I think that's why I took to it so fast back in DC, but most other sports lead to a lot of pain.

As for Green Tea - always an excellent choice for mid-day drinks though I had no idea it helped with fat loss. The others on your list I did know about as common ways of reducing not only fat, but are generally good habits to have. We have way too many complex carbs/simple carbs in our daily diet.

 

[BarbaRosa]

Honey,

regarding suppliments... nope... I don't like the idea. I do like the diet focus and paying attention to things like cooking with cast iron and eating spinach and meet to keep iron levels up, and paying attention to water intake and eating balanced meals... but really in your case. ... you need rest, you work too hard too long ,, schedule some recoup time to balance that

glucosamine stuff, I did not notice any benefit and it was hard on mystomach though i was taking it first thing in am with out food... but a consideration for you is this, make sure you stretch real real well. I personally have issues with hamstrings getting tight and pulls my knee cap off track so I use a PT foam roll (6" diam) to roll my quads over and help loosen the muscle to reduce the pull on my knee cap.

and then.... happy new year!