Supporting your LBS

chicodude · Jan 18, 2005

I try to buy from them when I can, But I'm poor, so It doesn't happen that often.

For the small stuff, I go. Or for the stuff I need right now. But mostly for the little stuff.

punkassean · Jan 18, 2005

Well when I was on the other side of this exact debate I would usually try to strike a happy medium w/the customer. In other words, in most cases the shop can't really afford to match the mail order price but they can offer you some aspects that the mail order house can't. For instance the fact that you aren't waiting for the product, you have a human to speak to and ask questions etc. So I would try to sell the part(s) as low as I could afford to (cover the actual wholesale cost plus overhead and the fact that I have to order another one) Which more or less determined to be ~20% off of full retail. On occasion I would extend as much as 40% of retail but that was for less desirable parts or things I had multiples of etc.

Lesson: If you can get the LBS to take ~20-25% off you are getting the part(s) at their true cost because wholesale is not the final cost.

EDIT: FWIW, now that I am not at a shop, when it's convenient (given it's 250 miles away) I buy from my old shop which extends me a really nice discount otherwise I buy from one of two local shops that give me about 15% off since they know I am sort of in the "industry" as I would consider you in many ways. I think it's uncommon for a good shop to charge a regular/return customer full retail...

dcamp29 · Jan 18, 2005

at the shop i work in we price match, but it pisses off the owner, so i would reccommend trying to meet half way between the retail and internet prices(without shipping) that way you still get money off and don't pay ups to smash your parts up.

mack · Jan 18, 2005

my shop should be sued for scamming i think, its way too expensive.

me89 · Jan 18, 2005

big supporter of the lbs. but my lbs has very competative prices and is a little bit more understanding with the more expensive items. but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. so support them as much as your wallet can take but enough is enough sometimes and you just got to order from the computer. but in the other hand it is nice being able to inspect the part, clothing, and or sizing of things in your lbs and that just cant be done over the computer. now yes i know you can look at sizings in the shop and order from the computer but you never know what you are going to get inside the brown box. expecially with brown bringin it to you.

bohica · Jan 18, 2005

I'm in a very fortunate situation as my best friend is the owner of the bike shop so I can get some very sweet deals.

Inclag · Jan 18, 2005

I definately support my LBS whenever I can. I've been a frequent customer for years, worked there for a little time, friendly to all the guys there and all and race and pass the good word for them whenever I can so I get a pretty good hook-up and help to-boot whenever I'm in a jam.

I can see where you are coming from though. It's almost like you have to pay your dues to finally get some sort of kickback in return.

Don't know what to say other than in my experience people who always seem to be getting cut deals are usually the type who are friendly, conversational, bringing in new customers (riding buddies), and usually buying alot of stuff. Hell ask the people you know at that LBS what it takes to get hooked-up, they'll probably tell ya.

Curb Hucker · Jan 18, 2005

My LBS does not have pricetags on anything. They will give you a price on what you are interested depending on if they saw what car you pulled up in, what bike you're riding, or what watch/jewelry you have on. Not to mention if you look uneducated bike wise they will try and sell you a 4 year old bike as a current model. This is the LBS in my town, when I need something and cant get it direct I'll always go to a shop in Chicago, its about 30min away, but the people there are worth it over the local schmucks.

lovebunny · Jan 18, 2005

my main lbs is beyond bikes. but also get some pretty good deals at alotta other shops. theres like 6 within 20 min so i can allways search around for the best deal or know what shops better to go to for what

punkassean · Jan 18, 2005

Kanter, I agree that you should at least tell them that you are having trouble justifying paying so much but that you know they can't go quite as low as mail-order. They will negotiate w/you. And if they don't then you can go mail-order guilt-free.

they need to give you those Maxxis tires for more like $50 (20% off) and that would be fair to both of you...

66 · Jan 18, 2005

For too long I had the attitude that the right thing to do was support my local shop. I gave almost all my biz to one shop that treated me well most of the time. But after one of temper tantrums (you would be shocked!) by one of the owners that really pissed me off I got to thinking, why do i care about them?

Most off I care about me. I don't have any interest in supporting some silly shop that pisses away the too little biz they have.

I didn't want to be one to rush off to the bright and shiny supergo. There is no way I would ever let them (supergo or most shops for that matter) touch my bikes. But is the cool dude behind the counter that has been biking longer the tomac and first took the training wheels off h-balls bike really cool enough to take my extra cash? nope. maybe i want them working on my bikes when i can't get something done. but if they are running an unprofessional biz, then the $15 tires at supergo are starting to look a little better.

There are a couple other bike employees in the area that I will get some help from when the time comes around. But I will show my appreciation with a 6 pack, not a 10-50% markup from smarter shopping.

If i had a shop in town that had the dh gear in stock, they showed some interest in being competitive and knew how to work on a bike, maybe I would be supporting them. But there isn't. If anyone knows me wrong, please let me know.

buildyourown · Jan 18, 2005

Buy the shoes at the LBS. You tryed them on there, didn't you? Pay them the mark for stocking the sizes. Buy the tires mail order. I've been to the shops in Kali and the selection was pretty dismal.

buildyourown · Jan 18, 2005

66 said:
If i had a shop in town that had the dh gear in stock, they showed some interest in being competitive and knew how to work on a bike, maybe I would be supporting them. But there isn't. If anyone knows me wrong, please let me know.

Amen. For as many shops as Seattle has, and there isn't a decent one in the bunch.
Superho here I come

snoopz666 · Jan 18, 2005

if you go into a LBS and you think the prices are really high, just ask them whats the best they can give you. ive had several experiences wit this. first of all my helmet. the guy knocked off sumthin around 25%. and then my bike the guy at the Norco dealer here is taking prety much 400$ off of it. usually if you ask they will. if they dont tell them about the deal you could(are) going to get online mabey thatll convice them. if they still wont, go to another shop or just buy it online.

and if your go there enough and tell people about it theyll be more willing to give you a deal just like inclag said.
(definatly go to full boar in kamloops, dont go into spoke in motion way overpriced and wont deal on anything. in Prince george go to Northern hardware to the norco dealer there, or to cyclelogic, they have sweet shop rides ever summer, whistler and sunpeaks, and are extremely helpfull nomatter what you need)

sanjuro · Jan 18, 2005

There is a guy who will negotiate to the nickel on price, but I like and respect him, although all the other shops think he is a pain in the ass. I do too, but I like pains in the ass.

The alternative was another guy who was interested in a $1900 bike during the end-of-year, and I would have given him 10% off. He came back with $1400. I think everyone who has worked in a shop knows this is not how you negotiate in a shop. I regret not throwing him out the shop right at that moment.

I think approach is important. Some shops are not interested in discounting, and they lose customers that way. Some shops everything is a negotiation, and they lose profit that way. For me, show some intelligence and respect, and I can work with you on price.

66 · Jan 18, 2005

sanjuro said:
There is a guy who will negotiate to the nickel on price, but I like and respect him, although all the other shops think he is a pain in the ass. I do too, but I like pains in the ass.

The alternative was another guy who was interested in a $1900 bike during the end-of-year, and I would have given him 10% off. He came back with $1400. I think everyone who has worked in a shop knows this is not how you negotiate in a shop. I regret not throwing him out the shop right at that moment.

I think approach is important. Some shops are not interested in discounting, and they lose customers that way. Some shops everything is a negotiation, and they lose profit that way. For me, show some intelligence and respect, and I can work with you on price.

I'm not interested in a haggle. I don't beg. 25% is a lot. if i asked you to take 500 off 1900 i would not be surprised if you said no. but if that's what he has, and the bike is worth more to you, why would you consider kicking him out? seems like you both are looking for a similar goal. maybe this deal is just not going to happen.

If i were running a shop, i would charge as much as i could for a product.

did you have a bike that you could give him for 14? i think i could have figured a way to take his cash. is he going to come back to you when he has a couple hundred more? Sounds like he might not. i wouldn't. if you have the pretend attitude that you are going to kick him out, then maybe you are not the guy i'm going to take my 1900 (once i get it) to. You said anyone who has worked in a shop would know that you couldnt ask for 500 off. Has your customer worked in a shop? Do you only want to give the customers that have worked in a shop a deal?

I don't have a bike shop and I don't know what it's like to try to run one. But I can't imagine running any business that would piss away someone trying to spend their money.

CreeP · Jan 19, 2005

I support even the shops i don't work at because i ride with the guys who work there. they are my friends, good enough for me. That's not to say i've never bought anything online, because that would be utter fallacy. I shop to an extent that would make most women crazy. I used to go shoe shopping with my mom and it would take months before i found something i was comfortable in, from both a fit perspective, and a stylistic perspective. I bought a pair of vans TNTs this summer and my buddy (who, incidentally works in one of the shops nearby) was laughing at me for taking so long to decide and try on stuff.

That relates more directly to bikes in the example of my current cranks. I started in the middle of june picking people's brains online about all the different cranks i'd been watching over the past couple years. You can see a thread to that effect here on RM i think. From there I narrowed the choices somewhat through a couple factors like: how much markup am i going to deal with (no on-one, or middleburn), how much can i get it for(no shimano), and of course all the technical mumbo jumbo, plus looks(no bonz). The list was huge.
I spare no effort in finding the right tool for the job, and then i try and find something i can get for a price i can pay that's still an above average tool that works for ME.

ya so after six months i finaly got a set of diabolus for 320 canadian.

hell it took long enough to figure out what size i wanted.

whoa! talk about running off the track!

um ya, all that was to say i won't buy the product i don't want.

BMXman · Jan 19, 2005

hmm...I feel I owe nothing to any LBS...they're not going to help pay my bills...so I shop around for the best price and I don't care who has the best price as long as I can get it...but that's just me...D

Spunger · Jan 19, 2005

This is how I see this.

If it's some petty small BS part I'll head to the LBS OR if it's a part I need to try on and buy (pads, gloves etc...) so I know I get the right size. I'd never order that stuff, if someone helps me get fitted etc...I'll buy from the LBS.

Tires I couldn't justify, pedals neither, nor cranks, or headsets, lol or much else at the LBS. One LBS here wanted $60 more for the Shimano 645 pedals. I saw the tag at $129.99 and was like ha, thank god I got them online. I know they have to make their money but there is no way I am spending $60 for a maxxis tire or $130 for SPD pedals. There's just no way.

I am poor (or consider myself to be) so everything is bought online and mainly ebay. I take my wheels into them to get them trued and if I have a problem I can't fix, but other than that I don't really go to the LBS much. When I do it's for something I can't seem to buy online for any cheaper than they have (ankle brace 661 was $24.95, online it's the same but I pay shipping so it's cheaper the LBS route).

Plus we have a supergo about an hour away. I've gotten some sweet tire deals there for $19 for a mobster etc... I want to say some bicycle shops buy from supergo, pricepoint etc....because it's sometimes cheaper than their own distributors. I know they don't make much markup on somethings but others they rape you.

Point is, if you need it in a pinch and have the money, the LBS is it. I wouldn't hesistate buying a set of brake pads or something if I needed to go ride and pay the extra $5 more for their pricing then online but if it's an item and there's a $40 dollar difference my ride can wait until another day

NotQuiteJdm · Jan 19, 2005

Mine hooks me up..not that much but I shop online because parts I ask for through a shop are back ordered and take WEEKS to get in so i'll guess hit up the net, get the product I want, save money and headaches. My LBS isn't hurting though, they pake enough off of people coming in that don't know how to change a flat!

iridebikes · Jan 19, 2005

ok, I first off am going to say that I do work in a small mom and pop bike shop here in seattle, we deal with mostly hybred bikes and lower end mountain bikes. I wish we would deal with more high end road and mountain bikes but the demand for that jsut isnt' there with our shop, they all go over to greg's or superho. I'm also going to say that it is those big shops that help put small shops out of business. And I also would like to say that I hate mailorder, and big california based chain stores such as supergo. Its impossible for us to compete with them price wise. However, we actually ride, and we work in a bike shop because we love riding. Alot of the people that go to those big stores buy realy high end stuff because they are super rich and spoiled most of the time. When you compare the price that a local bike shop pays for stuf, its very similar to what some of the mailorder places are selling stuff for. Its impossible for us to compete with that. We have people come in saying that they want us to price match stuff like that. We can't because it wouldn't be worth it. Ya you work hard for your money, but if you become a corprate whore and shop at mailorder places like supergo, you are practicly slaping your felow riders in the face. My sugestion is to definatly support your local shops, Bike shops, as well as restraunts and other small local stores. If you've had problems with one bike shop, or a person at a bike shop, try dealing with someone else, or try another local bike shop. But don't rule out the local bike shop because of one or two bad experiences. But that's just my opinion. Its just my choice to help out my fellow hardworkers who are trying to make a buck by doing what they love.

I hope what I've said has helped and not angered anyone. Its just my opinion, and I really feel like its the right thing to suport fellow local riders. So please lets not turn this into a bashing thread. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm sorry if i've pissed anyone off.

thaflyinfatman · Jan 19, 2005

Screw the guilt trip thing. It's their job to earn your business, not yours to donate to charity. If they can't offer you the same value that somewhere else can, why should you continue to go there? You're not obliged to support someone's BUSINESS. They're in it to make profit, they have to be competitive. If they can't compete, that's their problem, not yours.

Rik · Jan 19, 2005

My brother and I have worked in a few shops over the past few years, so I'm hooked up in that regard. But, I wouldn't mind paying retail price if I can justify it... if a shop has a part in stock, or are prepared to give me good advice, I'll have no problems at all forking over ticket price if I feel I'm getting good service. But, alas, stores will never have the specific part I want in stock (I'm a picky bitch), and about 70% of sales guys I've chatted to over time have NFI at all, and I couldn't justify giving them money for being stupid. I don't claim I know a whole lot about bikes, I do know enough to get me by, but I'd expect anyone that works in a shop to have a decent amount of product knowledge.
But too many times I get BS'd around (although, I usually play dumb when I talk shop stuff at random stores), and the sales guys spew utter crap... like one guy the other day, trying to convince me floating brakes are useless as highschool maths disproves their function, and that a rebadged Azonic frame isn't made by Astrobike... I didn't tell him that it's listed in their catalogue though. Granted, that guy did talk alot of sense otherwise, but still...

sayndesyn · Jan 19, 2005

I'm in Europe so LBS isn't an option with the Euro rate. I have seen the old style XTR cranks going for 450 Euro this summer at a shop in France. That is about 550 dollars!!. I prefer going through manufacturers for grassroots sponsorship. As long as you are approachable and enthusiastic it is really easy to get parts at 40-60% off from the company themselves.

ChrisRobin · Jan 19, 2005

When I as working in a shop I 'hated' people that would come in and haggle over prices (especially people who didn't have a clue and were just trying to negociate beause they thought it was a used car lot). After I was done there and finished building up a new bike, ha, I realized the only thing I bought from my LBS were cables/housing, black spokes and a cheap FSA Pig headset! I'd like to support them but in the end, money talks and I need it!!!

Someone mentioned you should support your LBS if they offer advice and opinions on bikes and parts...well, what happens if you already know as much or more than the LBS people??

Incubus · Jan 19, 2005

I remember contemplating buying a Kona Stinky Delux many years ago. I called around to local Kona dealers and though nobody had one in stock, all offered to get one at full retail (I think it was $2400 at the time). Until I called one shop and over the phone, the owner offered $500 off of the price of the bike.

Assuming that there is a 33% margin (dealer cost = 1600, $800 mark-up), the shop owner is still making the kind of margin that he'd normally make on a $900 bike. Which is still higher than the average retail price of the bike they sell. I can see his motivation, he's not doing much different on that bike than he is on a $900 steed.

Then again, his components are priced at full retail. I never bought the bike just because I got hurt, but I doubt I'll ever see a shop offer up that kind of deal ever again.

Fury · Jan 19, 2005

BMXman said:
hmm...I feel I owe nothing to any LBS...they're not going to help pay my bills...so I shop around for the best price and I don't care who has the best price as long as I can get it...but that's just me...D

Thats the way I feel, to a point. I've posted this on other sites but what LBS' need to realize is that with the internet changing the way we buy if you can't compete on price you'd better find something else to compete on.

Example:
Go-Ride doesn't offer the very best prices (they're very good though) but what they do offer is expert advice, high-end products that are in stock, etc. They may lose money from some people who only deal on price but the vast majority of people are willing to pay a little bit more for these competencies.

The customer is the reason shops stay in business so to be rude or upset when we ask for lower prices is just plain dumb. If you can't match prices, fine, show me where my extra cash is going.

The shop I ride for now (Momentum Cycle) has very competitive prices because they've managed to minimize their overhead. They're making money, i'm saving money - everyone's happy.

Fury · Jan 19, 2005

ChrisRobin said:
Someone mentioned you should support your LBS if they offer advice and opinions on bikes and parts...well, what happens if you already know as much or more than the LBS people??

Then you don't need to pay the extra money for a shop that hires knowledgable staff. Go online or find a shop that knows more than you if you need it.

BigMike · Jan 19, 2005

I support my LBS because it supports me. They are a sponsor of our team, and the people that work their are awesome. They work out deals with me when needed. I try and throw them as much money as possible. That being said, if I find a killer deal online, I am still going to take it.

Kornphlake · Jan 19, 2005

iridebikes said:
ok, I first off am going to say that I do work in a small mom and pop bike shop here in seattle, we deal with mostly hybred bikes and lower end mountain bikes. I wish we would deal with more high end road and mountain bikes but the demand for that jsut isnt' there with our shop, they all go over to greg's or superho. I'm also going to say that it is those big shops that help put small shops out of business. And I also would like to say that I hate mailorder, and big california based chain stores such as supergo. Its impossible for us to compete with them price wise. However, we actually ride, and we work in a bike shop because we love riding. Alot of the people that go to those big stores buy realy high end stuff because they are super rich and spoiled most of the time. When you compare the price that a local bike shop pays for stuf, its very similar to what some of the mailorder places are selling stuff for. Its impossible for us to compete with that. We have people come in saying that they want us to price match stuff like that. We can't because it wouldn't be worth it. Ya you work hard for your money, but if you become a corprate whore and shop at mailorder places like supergo, you are practicly slaping your felow riders in the face. My sugestion is to definatly support your local shops, Bike shops, as well as restraunts and other small local stores. If you've had problems with one bike shop, or a person at a bike shop, try dealing with someone else, or try another local bike shop. But don't rule out the local bike shop because of one or two bad experiences. But that's just my opinion. Its just my choice to help out my fellow hardworkers who are trying to make a buck by doing what they love.

I hope what I've said has helped and not angered anyone. Its just my opinion, and I really feel like its the right thing to suport fellow local riders. So please lets not turn this into a bashing thread. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm sorry if i've pissed anyone off.

So what do I get for shopping at your low end shop where I'll pay full retail for a part that will take you longer to get than if I ordered online? Do you support racers, do you sponsor events, do you help manufacturers improve products? I've yet to enter a single LBS that actually puts any money back into the sport, the only exception would be Go-Ride and they really aren't a LBS. Maybe I just have the misfortune of shopping from all the shops with owners who are "super rich and spoiled" so they feel like they have to charge full retail for parts so they can afford to continue to be "super rich and spoiled."

If I'm going to spend 20-30% above mail order prices I want to know that the extra money I'm giving away is actually helping the sport in some way. I just don't think that a low end shop like the one you describe is going to do that, for my money I'll shop at a "corporate whore" and dig trails on my own. Small shops put small shops out of business, they can charge full retail for parts but it comes at the cost of good customer service, that means knowledgeable employees, solid advice on components based on experience not just "well it's more expensive so it must be better," a cheerful disposition, not being distracted by the shop dog while I'm shopping and free or at least affordable installation of parts ($15 to install a headset is rediculous after I've already paid $30 more just to get the headset at your shop.) Mail order can offer rock bottom prices because customers are willing to sacrifice customer service to save $30-$50 per purchase.

ALEXIS_DH · Jan 19, 2005

thaflyinfatman said:
Screw the guilt trip thing. It's their job to earn your business, not yours to donate to charity. If they can't offer you the same value that somewhere else can, why should you continue to go there? You're not obliged to support someone's BUSINESS. They're in it to make profit, they have to be competitive. If they can't compete, that's their problem, not yours.

hell yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Inclag · Jan 19, 2005

Kornphlake said:
Small shops put small shops out of business

That basically sums everything up.

Frankenschwinn · Jan 19, 2005

I mix it up. My LBS supports our race team but has little knowledge of DH gear or equipment. I always give them the opportunity to get me what I need and they are very understanding when I don't buy from them. I buy a lot of used stuff so that knocks them out of those deals anyway. Some things it is just easier to get for myself. There are some items that he can beat the mailorder houses on but not with everyone. Bikeshops make most of their money on 200% markup items such as tubes, pre-packaged cables etc. They generally can't afford to have high end equip. sitting in inventory waiting for the small percentage of buyers looking for that type of stuff.

My LBS is owned and staffed by riders of all types and I ride with all of them from time to time. They put resources back into the local riding community which really has helped them grow.

If you have built a relationship with the shop owners and employees you can legitimatly ask for them to work with you when they can.

As for hating mailorder... No shop in my area is able to support my DH habit with either knowledge or equipment. If I can wait I will let the shop get it but I can generally get it faster on my own. I do the research anyway and most often I give my shop the part #s to order...

bigkonarider · Jan 19, 2005

I buy most all my stuff of these forums & the LBS employees old used stuff...I mean i buy almost ALL thier used stuff quick & no trying to get it for free.I'm cool like that .I suppose they have it easy me buying most of thier stuff without them going through the waiting & hassle of selling it. & i get stuff for a little cheaper & i works out pretty good..They get NEW stuff & i buy thier used stuff..
Now though i do my own thing mostly all online in "forums"..Mainstream Mailorder places kick the LBS prices alot.I get a price-then decide if i want to pay more or not at the LBS ! Usually the tires i want aren't advertised cheap on mailorder so i end up going through LBS anyway's..
When i was making more money flying King Air 200's , i would just stroll in & buy all sorts of sh-it like it was No big deal!. Now i am making significantly less money so i have to be cheap again.... They order stuff & don't follow up on it REALLY PISSES me off...I friggin hate that..Drive there & nothing...........oh well i'll get over it..

-dustin · Jan 19, 2005

often times, my local shop is cheaper than anyone on the internet. if he isn't, i generally buy from him, anyway, 'cause he's cool and i want to ride one of his bikes at some point (Hammerhead).

Jou · Jan 19, 2005

I said **** my LBS, cause the guy was a prick, so now i drive 30 minutes to the next town to one. Gives me good deals mostly because im there alot, and race dh with the guys kid. He even drove 2 hours to a race and helped out ANYONE there that needed ANYTHING. and EVERYTHING as far as parts was 75% cheaper on race day, and labor was a cold beer or 2 at night. best kind of guy to have around.

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