[Skookum]

to 97% of those on this forum this is not for you.

I guess I just dont get the thinking.
I buy a piece of property

The county requires me to treat it a certain way

Someone decides they want to use it for their pleasure

They dont ask but that take the liberty to remove all the top soil to build things for their pleasure also using trees that will take years to replace.

Then create a huge liability for me the owner.

Owners sees this work that has been done on this property and decides they dont want the property used this way so they remove it.

Lets see how this makes sense. The land owner is the bad guy because he doesnt want to allow a liability but the trespasser and builder is the good guy victim.
Heres what wierder
The the owner says maybe there is a responsible way that we could create a workable solution, offers to cordinate a work party to repair the damaged enviroment they didnt destroy, offers to review proposals to build a legit course, is willing to look at grant possibilities from the county, and agrees to let any offense go away and he is the bad guy and anyone that wants to help is kissing ass.

Interesting logic. better wear a helmet next time :huh:

Anyway I realize most you guys dont think this way but its guys like this that Yarrow Bay, Plum Creek, King County worry about when they hear bikers want to use their property. In encourage you guys to police guys like this out of the equasion so your sport can be enjoyed freely.

Thank you all that have offered to help us with the restoration process.

still open

steve murray

It's like visiting another planet isn't it?

Steve Murray i commend you sir, for having the patience and being open minded enough to know that most people who enjoy mountain biking "on all skill levels" are regular folk that don't buy into what a few people on here are selling.

Me personally i don't think policing is as effective as good debate, and action. And with your willingness to bring mountain bikers to the table, it's a testament to the change that can come about.

Even though it's really not my place, i humbly apologize to you on behalf of mountain bikers that spout off on here half-cocked, when most land owners would have posted up No Trespassing signs and probably worked to get your neighbors to do the same. And i thank you sir for giving mountain bikers the benefit of working towards trail solutions, and i hope for a long standing positive working relationship at Lake Sawyer.

Mountain Biking is a great fun healthy recreation. Starts out when you're a kid riding around some dirt path or jumps. It's really important to alot of people, and has great impact for alot of people of all ages, still seeking to re-capture that pure source of fun, freedom, and excitement.

i think for some people they lose sight of the fact that mountain biking in essence is simply that, no more, no less. But the joy we do get can motivate us to do great things. Here's to hoping you catch some of that motivation and great things happen on your stretch of land.

Tim

 

[Skookum]

I remember a time 30+ years ago when you could pretty much do anything in the woods in eastern king county. I have watched the entire region go to hell in a handbag. First thing they took was woods to play in, second thing was moto riding, third thing was places to throw big keg parties, fourth was little non populated hills for off roading trucks. I guess people just dont want others to have fun in the woods. Maybe thats why are youth in general are lazy, overweight video game players because they just dont have the access to close fun in the outdoors, like eastern king county did in my youth. There is just too many people, houses, and new whatever going up and people generally dont care. Anything to make people a little lazier. Peoples greed and there need for more is the reason for the world's short comings. I am as guilty as charged, but slowly changing my perspectives in life. I am only hoping for places, where I can do what I want in the woods without someone always messing with me. Until then I will continue to search for the ultimate freeride line. Later

You know i always say, how is it that just simple trails in the woods get so complicated and political?

You might not think it, but i agree with alot of what you're saying. That's why i work as hard as i do, doing the things i do in mountain biking advocacy.

Cheers.

Tim

 

[smurr]

Tim thank you so much for taking the time to comment and bring clarity to some of this.

This monday we will be moving some dirt on the property to put a short portion of logging road for future tree thinning ( this is part of the forest managment schedule we are on).

This will interupt some of the trails for a week or so. there will be no contruction or clearing beyond the road. I will be out there off and on monday and tuesday to monitor the work so if you ride there those days look for me so we can meet.

still open

steve m

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

I think I finally understand.....

It appears the builders of these trails have no interest in doing it legally or legitimatly. They view themselves as the hardcore, underground element of mt biking. Once that element becomes legitimate or legal....they've lost what they believe makes them cool. They have no interest in making it mainstream, in fact, they'll do what they can in sure it doesn't.

Actually, no. You can find some of their work at Collonade (including, believe it or not, the beginner section) and soon to be Duthie. I guess you can say they go both ways.

Much like religion, everybody has their beliefs.

 

[black sunshine]

Fortress of Solitude!

 

[smurr]

hi guys

we have put in the logging road and it crosses over some of the trails but it seems as thought it hasnt stopped people from figuring out how they connect.
We wont start thinning for a couple of months and when we do we will post so you know

steve murray

 

[dbirds2]

wow! talk about doing some damage, logging roads and tree thinning versus dirt jumps and and a few nails. Have fun with that wonderful hill. money money money

 

[dbirds2]

wow! talk about doing some damage, logging roads and tree thinning versus dirt jumps and and a few nails. Have fun with that wonderful hill. money!money! money! Personally I dont think anyone should help clean up anything. Because there really isnt anything to clean up, unless you consider dirt and a few logs garbage. Suggestion! if your using machines for the road, why dont you go clean up those so called areas where all those beer cans, nails and garbage sit. You can do it in a quarter of the time with those death to the forest machines.

 

[trailhacker]

Ramblings of a retard

You are such a moron.

 

[dbirds2]

You are such a moron.

Spoken by a real smart guy.

 

[smurr]

Hey guys
we have been getting lots of calls of people thanking us for posting our plans and being grateful for keeping the trails open. those calls and recordings have been very encouraging and has given us a vision for future trails. some are offering to help with the restoration process and designing a future coarse that makes sense for both interested parties.

I did get a call from a guy that makes biking videos. He wanted me to call him but I erased him by acident and I really wanted to connect with him but cant remember his name. sound familure? I think he made videos on the down hill coarse.He also tried to reach Thom Randolf but he has been gone for a couple weeks.

steve

 

[dbirds2]

Ah!!!!!!!!!!! Downhill course! You mean jump lines, If you you want to know what a downhill course is, first you have to add alot more vertical feet so you can go alot faster. The speed you could obtain out there isn't even close to a downhill course. That place was pretty safe compared to a DOWNHILL COURSE. I must be bored trying to explain the difference between apples and oranges to someone that just doesn't get it. This is why I personally dont think that legit jump lines and stunts will be allowed here. i may be wrong, but I doubt it.............

 

[Makana425]

looks fun, i wanna ride it

 

[Skookum]

Ah!!!!!!!!!!! Downhill course! You mean jump lines, If you you want to know what a downhill course is, first you have to add alot more vertical feet so you can go alot faster. The speed you could obtain out there isn't even close to a downhill course. That place was pretty safe compared to a DOWNHILL COURSE. I must be bored trying to explain the difference between apples and oranges to someone that just doesn't get it. This is why I personally dont think that legit jump lines and stunts will be allowed here. i may be wrong, but I doubt it.............

Dude you really need 2 learn instead of spouting off like you're an expert.

U argue w/Trailhacker who has probably had more or equal influence in the DH and racing scene over the years, than maybe anyone else on this board.

Then u argue semantics and raise your flag against Lake Sawyer. Fine if you're not going 2 help then shut the hell up, and move on 2 whatever else tickles ur fancy.

There might b riders who want 2 c jumps/drops, and r willing 2 do the work there. And a big part of the work is talking w land managers, in this case mr. murray. Takes more time if all we have are a bunch of a$$holes talkin about not diggin. If no bikers show 2 help out the cause, well then the responsibility falls on all of us, we'll all b 2 blame 4 blowing an opportunity. One that probably help other opportunities like advanced lines w/big gravity somewhere else, because people could call Mr. Murray and ask about bikers and he could say "Yah u can work with bikers, they're ok". Or he could say, "yah i tried, but nobody stepped up, and i got alot of flack".

This message is 4 all:
If you're not gonna dig, at least get over yourself and not try to stand in the way.

 

[dbirds2]

Get your facts straight kook! Who started name calling idiot. It wasnt me moron. My little downhill post had nothing to do with trailhacker, and why do you always speak for other people. Speak for yourself or shut the hell up. At least when i speak I usually speak for myself and my opinion only. I wouldnt even try to think I know more about biking than trailhacker because that would truely make me a moron, just like you shouldnt think you always know more about freeride because that truely makes you a moron. I dont know you skooks but I bet it's safe to say, stick to the riding you do best and let the other forms of riding get handled by others.

 

[Borneo]

*sigh* Doesn't Slidedonkey (or, is it "Fluidridedonkey") have a moderator here to close this thread once and for all?

 

[Skookum]

Get your facts straight kook! Who started name calling idiot. It wasnt me moron. My little downhill post had nothing to do with trailhacker, and why do you always speak for other people. Speak for yourself or shut the hell up. At least when i speak I usually speak for myself and my opinion only. I wouldnt even try to think I know more about biking than trailhacker because that would truely make me a moron, just like you shouldnt think you always know more about freeride because that truely makes you a moron. I dont know you skooks but I bet it's safe to say, stick to the riding you do best and let the other forms of riding get handled by others.

O.K. so you want to be the official voice of freeride? Good luck with that.

Your posts and opinions are absolutely illogical and they don't help.

i need to take more pain meds 2 get stupid enough to understand what you're writing.

*******

ok i'm bak, i gonna say my opinion now. u the one who are a moron i tried reeding you, and you sound like you r saying you know it all, and peepull shood not bothur with trail unless u say it'z cool b;cuz your the expert, and guys like us dont know like u. we shood not speek up bcuz even tho we have dun stuff that kood help we shood not share our opinion bcuz you are smart and dont name call.

Well sorry pal, if nobody speaks up, people won't learn what is real and what is not. That means me, and it really really really means you bird.

 

[Skookum]

*sigh* Doesn't Slidedonkey (or, is it "Fluidridedonkey") have a moderator here to close this thread once and for all?

what for? This thread is much better than Dr. Phil but not quite as good as Nanny 911.

 

[Skookum]

ok ok y'know what? most sane people probably want this thread 2 die, so i hereby give up on this thread. dbird if u still wanna argue the floor is all yours.

start another argue thread and i'll blather on til infinity or more than likely til the pain meds wear off.

But 4 this thread, i'll go back to the Fonk....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RDY6tdW31p4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RDY6tdW31p4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Makana425]

Why dont we stop this thread and get rid of it, and if you guys are going to fight do it under pm

 

[dbirds2]

Dude! I did dig and build there. Why would I want to help with any efforts there when the stuff got torn down. Go in there and build stuff that already exists in the area. Like Iv'e said before we already have places with smaller lines and easier stunts. That place was pretty cool because it had a little danger element to it. I dont know about you, but the only reason I ride is for the rush and danger element. The only times I have posted replies is when bigger lines and stunts continue to get torn down and people just say you got to work with etc...ect... and so on and another stunt,jump line gets torn down and 2 more smaller ones go in. No disrespect for these places. I think moto is the way to go. I think I'll go buy a cr250 and go poach all trails and shred some serious dirt. This way I wont really care if woodwork and bike jumps get torn down, because I'll be laughing when I'm flying by at 40mph. Republican Red Neck from eastern wa

 

[coiler7]

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT ON, DBIRDS! NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN A FREERIDE COWBOY WAY.

---------------------------------------------------

ROSSI, McMCAIN/PALIN-2008

 

[Skookum]

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT ON, DBIRDS! NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN A FREERIDE COWBOY WAY.

---------------------------------------------------

ROSSI, McMCAIN/PALIN-2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hshJjpGS_8s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hshJjpGS_8s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Makana425]

your funny dbirds

 

[dirtmover]

I had walked through there on Saturday where the trails used to be and I was amazed with the amount of garbage that was left behind by the church. When the builders had last left it it was cleaned up and well taken care of by the builder but then it was torn down and thrown all over the place. Completely amazed that the church got all up in a hissy fit about a few nails but when they went and destroyed the trails it looks like totaly crap. I'm not going to rain on there parade but there should have been a better way of handling it. For the folks that didn't get a chance to ride it but are mad about this thread please go check out that area. It just might change your opinion of what had really went down. I'm really good about taking stuff in and taking it out leaving zero garbage but HOLY CRAP.
On the other hand thanks for not destroying our berm trail.

 

[LeroyJenkins]

I decided to head there today for the 1st time in about 3 years, and it was really sad to see those apparently great trails torn down in that manner. I wish I had known they were out there, because those are exactly the kind of trails I would have liked to ride. Bummer.

 

[smurr]

Nice try dirtmover
the church hasn’t brought garbage to the site ever.
We are in the midst of sending teams to Galveston for cleanup efforts there and we are using all our other volunteers to put on a volunteer oil change day for single parents and elderly.
When those efforts are taken care of we will restore the land and maybe if someone submits a plan for a legit course where the current garbage is.

How would you have handled it if this had happened to you?
(by the way the destruction of the trails was not a coordinated effort of the church. it was a board member that was concerned with liability that happened to be there with his trac hoe clearing scotch broom on the lower section of the land. )
steve murray

 

[smurr]

oh ya forgot to say no problem re the berm track. we kinda like that one and will most likely leave it

sm

 

[dirtmover]

Before this past weekend I haven't been back in months because of this drama so when I finally made my way it was unbelievable. The trash that was there was from other users of the trail and i'm sure a part of the builders but nothing like what I had seen. I was shocked to see that people got upset over a few nails but it's ok to just throw all of the rooted wood anywhere they had pleased. At first I had thought about assisting but now it's pretty much not going to happen on my end. I'd be ashamed with what had happened by the board member.
Once again thanks for not destroying our berm trail. I'm just a sad old rider of that part of land and to see it in it's shape bites.

 

[smurr]

Dirtmover
i know it was disappointing to you to see the ruined trails.
I felt that way too when i saw the trees cut down and the pits dug but i dont have a choice to just walk away and leave it this way. we are required by the county to restore it before we can moveforward on our future plans.
work we didnt ask for but now we are obligated to because of someone elses pursuit of pleasure, so we pay. oh well thats the way some choose to live

so we move forward as we can with or with out the help of those we continue to let use the other trails

sm

 

[dbirds2]

Before this past weekend I haven't been back in months because of this drama so when I finally made my way it was unbelievable. The trash that was there was from other users of the trail and i'm sure a part of the builders but nothing like what I had seen. I was shocked to see that people got upset over a few nails but it's ok to just throw all of the rooted wood anywhere they had pleased. At first I had thought about assisting but now it's pretty much not going to happen on my end. I'd be ashamed with what had happened by the board member.
Once again thanks for not destroying our berm trail. I'm just a sad old rider of that part of land and to see it in it's shape bites.

I'm with you on this bro! It comes down to greed and the wanting of more land to build a new and improved church, which equals more money. Give it two years and see what this place looks like. Like we need another church, organized religion has always been and always will be the cause of the worlds greed and genocides towards man and land. I dont trust religion as far as I can fart!

 

[Skookum]

 

[black sunshine]

instead of being a little bitch you should go BUY YOUR OWN LAND so no one can tell you what to do. you can call your friend (your only one) and he can help you build "downhill" trails on it.
so stop screwing it up for us who can't afford our own trails!

I remember a time 30+ years ago when you could pretty much do anything in the woods in eastern king county. I have watched the entire region go to hell in a handbag. First thing they took was woods to play in, second thing was moto riding, third thing was places to throw big keg parties, fourth was little non populated hills for off roading trucks. I guess people just dont want others to have fun in the woods. Maybe thats why are youth in general are lazy, overweight video game players because they just dont have the access to close fun in the outdoors, like eastern king county did in my youth. There is just too many people, houses, and new whatever going up and people generally dont care. Anything to make people a little lazier. Peoples greed and there need for more is the reason for the world's short comings. I am as guilty as charged, but slowly changing my perspectives in life. I am only hoping for places, where I can do what I want in the woods without someone always messing with me. Until then I will continue to search for the ultimate freeride line. Later

 

[bdmack]

concur

 

[fuzzycatnuts]

Wow, ok dTurds are you just looking for attention? I dont suppose you would want to back up all you talk by posting your real name....


I am a bit confused about the garbage, is it from the old wood that was used to build the stunts or is it trash that other people have left there? Most mountain bikers I know always pack out what they bring in and sometimes more than they bring in, it sucks that a few bad apples spoil it for us all. More likely suspects I have seen in some other areas is kids, bums, and rednecks, and if there are mountain bikers around it discourages them from coming into the area, colonnade for example.

 

[bockner]

I love this thread

 

[smurr]

the garbage refered to in privious posts was picked up when the ramps and jumps were destroyed.
The garbage isnt the big deal its the trees and holes dug that were the issue. Its over now we are moving on. We are still keeping/ building a future course if someone steps up with a design. clean out will take place most likely in november.

steve murray

 

[ThomRandolph]

I am a bit confused about the garbage, is it from the old wood that was used to build the stunts or is it trash that other people have left there? Most mountain bikers I know always pack out what they bring in and sometimes more than they bring in, it sucks that a few bad apples spoil it for us all. More likely suspects I have seen in some other areas is kids, bums, and rednecks, and if there are mountain bikers around it discourages them from coming into the area, colonnade for example.

Steve explained it pretty good, but here's the situation.

When the builders created the trails, there was a lot of actual garbage there. They actually did a good job of either removing or burying the stuff.

When the riders rode it, some very few of them left other garbage. Cans, bottles, etc. But, very little of that, and it was tucked into odd hollows of trees and such. No biggie, really.

When the church found the trails and dug up the berms and jumps, they uncovered the buried (actual) garbage, and they also dug up the wood that had been used. Some of the berms, jump ramps and certainly the structures contained wood, both rotted and solid. The church removed a bunch of garbage-bags filled with cans, bottles, wrappers and stuff, at least some of which had been buried by the builders.

Right now, the situation I've seen is that most of the "unwanted stuffage" is really the wood that was part of the trails. It's indeed a bizarre-looking mess, like someone dropped a whole box of Lincoln Logs from the sky.

Some here have used the term "garbage" to refer to what's all over the place at the site. To be clear, almost all of that are logs and branches and such that were dug up.

To be clear, the last time I was there, that hillside did not have a significant problem with actual garbage. There is, however, plenty of "woody debris". The cleanup activity we need to do has two aspects:

First, move off the woody debris so it doesn't present a safety hazard to people out there.

Second, clean up the holes, ramps, berms and such so that trails can be rebuilt, and so that the winter's drainage won't become an erosion problem.

Yes, I'm back finally from my vacation. Crazy to think this thread is still going, but it indeed fun to watch!

 

[Skookum]

Haha Landfill Waste Builders of America.

Making jumps out of $hitty diapers, beef jerky wrappers and old cans of Red Bull since 2005.

 

[fuzzycatnuts]

You should see some of the stuff thats in sst jumps, lots of car parts and even a swing set.