N8 said:
"Lets have a BundyQue" I believe one sign said outside the prison the night they did him in..
T is for Tookie, that's good enough for me....
- Thread starter Damn True
- Start date
"Lets have a BundyQue" I believe one sign said outside the prison the night they did him in..
PonySoldier said:
Well, he was a republican.
the governator just said no clemency - it just hit the wires.
fluff said:
I can understand how some people would support the death penalty but it blows my mind how some freaks seem to get pleasure out of it.
i find it supremely difficult for those that are taking the intellectual/moral high road on this would be able to hold this opinion were they to be family members of someone who was murdered
How come Tookie never admitted killing those four people yet he can say he has been rehabilitated?
Would you want people put to death if you were on death row, and innocent of the crime which put you there? Innocent people have been executed.ridetoofast said:i find it supremely difficult for those that are taking the intellectual/moral high road on this would be able to hold this opinion were they to be family members of someone who was murdered
I would want the person separated from society, like you would separate a dog that bit someone. The greatest punishment and reform would come from someone who has to confront his crimes and come to terms with them. If they ever do.
I can not endorse the idea that we should put people to death, based on the imperfect system we have. Killing someone just to have the satisfaction of seeing them die would seem to be pretty hollow if you can't be 100% sure they did it.
It also violates every tenant of my religion. My wife wouldn't want me to have someone put to death to avenge her.
That is a BS argument. The victim of many crimes would feel that the criminal deserves death. Most people here would probably wish death upon a criminal that stole their bike. That is why punishment is determined by society as a whole and not by the victim.ridetoofast said:i find it supremely difficult for those that are taking the intellectual/moral high road on this would be able to hold this opinion were they to be family members of someone who was murdered
N8 said:
And yet the evil shrub admits his invasion killed 30,000 and he still got a job.
Williams was convicted of killing Yen-I Yang, 76, Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 63, and Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 43, at a Los Angeles motel the family owned, and Albert Owens, 26, a 7-Eleven clerk gunned down in Whittier.
Reactor said:
Better make that 30,001... I'm sure we can blame Tookie's death on that rat bastid too!
i was referring specifically to those on this pd forum that opine against the penalty.Westy said:
edit:
it wasnt intended as an arguement per se, but more of an observation of their self beliefs and how they might weather that paticular storm.
i agree that there are imperfections, but there are also stone cold, absolute cases as well...
Dude, you couldn't find the intellectual high road if we got together and drew you a ****ing map...best for you to stay low brow.ridetoofast said:i find it supremely difficult for those that are taking the intellectual/moral high road on this would be able to hold this opinion were they to be family members of someone who was murdered
brilliant response...brilliant
pnj said:
That's right. Wouldn't be surprised if he was killed inside sometime.
Crips is short for Crippled. The original members used to intentionally walk with a limp and use canes. Not too sure why, but that was their thing. Nonetheless, it seemed to stick, and now they are simply known as Crips.the Inbred said:
As for Tookie being the founder of the Crips, thats actually not entirely true. From what I understand, he was more of the founders tool
9 hrs 2min left....
This is why countries have systems of Justice. To deal with the situation in a rational manner. Just because you're personally ready to kill someone about something doesn't make it right.ridetoofast said:
The death penalty:
a) Is more expensive than life in prison.
b) Has been shown to be used wrongly in many cases.
c) Makes you as bad as the Murderer - often worse as the death penalty is the ultimate 'premeditated murder'.
d) Has been shown to have zero, or even a negative effect on murder rates.
The only rational reason for the death penalty is revenge. Revenge is not justice. Why do you support it?
1. then someone is doing something wrong.Changleen said:
2. shouldn't be used for all cases (ie. we should know with out a doubt the person did the crime, such as john wayne gasey or dommer (both names prolly misspelled
))3. some people don't deserve to be alive (see the above mentioned scumbags)
4. as stated elsewhere in the thread, prison doesn't rehabilitate, in general.
I personallly think some people should be killed. however, I do think the way our prison system works currently is messed up.
but there is no way you can convience me that people like the two jerks mentioned above should be kept alive. they are worthless.
Changleen said:
a) why is it so expensive? how about 20 years or so worth of appeals
vs an ENTIRE life in prison. im gonna call bull on it being more expensive. as expensive perhaps, but more is something i belive the opponents like to bandy about.
b) id like to see all these 'wrong' ones. im not discounting that it might have happened in the past but id like to see specifics that = many
c) worse than the murderer? typically a death sentence is levied for the most heinous of crimes, often carried out in a gruesome manner, whereas the state appointed 'murder' as you like to refer to it attempts to ensure the least amount of suffering possible (yes i know there have been botched gasses and electrocutions, but again those are exceptions as opposed to rules) which is more than the victim is granted. So, how does that make the state worse
d) again id like to see where you get 'negative' affects
why do i support it?
the punishment should fit the crime. when individuals have NO regard for civility and choose to live outside the norms of a civilized society committing the most aggregious of crimes, ESPECIALLY pedophilic murders as a case in point, they forfeit any rights to being treated in a civilized manner. how you think that someone that kidnapps, rapes, mutilates, and kills a child should deserve to live is simply beyond me. again an extreme example, but you don't have to look to hard to find just such cases.
i wouldnt mind hard larbor one bit but the chances of that happening are non existent.
Changleen said:So a few years in jail followed by a painless death is a worse punishment than spending the entire rest of your life doing hard labour?What would you prefer? Slavery in horrible conditions or a painless death?
Why would you want to sit in solitary for the rest of your life?
Changleen said:
it doesn't have to be a great expense.
I can think of a lot of ways to kill someone for cheap.
bullets cost next to nothing. it takes seconds to pull the trigger of a gun. it may take a few people an hour total to get the scumbag that needs to be killed, into a location that he can be killed.
no need to pay for an expensive funeral, chop the body into parts and drop it into the ocean. there are plenty of boats going out to sea everyday. or simply dig a hole in the ground (we can use other inmates for this, and pay next to nothing) and drop the body in.
how will you force someone to work hard? and how will they better society by it?
Due process. In Texas for example it costs on average $1,500,000 more to execute someone than to keep them in prison for life. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me. As I said before, that's a lot of teacher's salaries right there.ridetoofast said:
your missing my point.
(and I'm probably missing yours...)
under the current ways that our system is run, it costs a lot of money. I'm saying, if we made some changes it wouldn't have to cost so damm much. of course, those changes will never be made but that's besides the point. the point is, some people deserve to die. like the clown (john wayne gasey and the other scumbags that are like him.) people that hands down did the crime they are charged with.
I also think that anyone that is in prison should have to be taking classes and have to have a 'B' average or higher. don't want to take the classes? then you stay in your cell, all day.
and they shouldn't have tv's or be able to do anything unless they are doing the schooling. infact, they shouldn't be allowed to do anything but be chained to a wall.
Prison should be about rehabiltation. and some people should be killed/don't deserve to be a part of society.
(and I'm probably missing yours...)
under the current ways that our system is run, it costs a lot of money. I'm saying, if we made some changes it wouldn't have to cost so damm much. of course, those changes will never be made but that's besides the point. the point is, some people deserve to die. like the clown (john wayne gasey and the other scumbags that are like him.) people that hands down did the crime they are charged with.
I also think that anyone that is in prison should have to be taking classes and have to have a 'B' average or higher. don't want to take the classes? then you stay in your cell, all day.
and they shouldn't have tv's or be able to do anything unless they are doing the schooling. infact, they shouldn't be allowed to do anything but be chained to a wall.
Prison should be about rehabiltation. and some people should be killed/don't deserve to be a part of society.
how so? you asked if they should instead do something productive, elaborate on these lessons.Changleen said:
if you are going to imprison them for the remainder of their life why should they not be forced to make some contribution to society rather than living off of it?
What changes? Getting rid of due process? That's what costs. You're willing to do away with justice itself?pnj said:
I disagree that they deserve to die. Firstly it lowers you to the level of the murderer. Explain how it doesn't if you disagree. Secondly, it costs more, money which the state could spend far more productivly elsewhere, stopping others become murderers for a start. Thirdly, these worthless lives could be made to give something back by keeping them alive and making them work.
This is pointless, we've been through this before. Your argument is: These people deserve to die. Why? You don't seem to be able to explain this.
I also think that anyone that is in prison should have to be taking classes and have to have a 'B' average or higher. don't want to take the classes? then you stay in your cell, all day.
and they shouldn't have tv's or be able to do anything unless they are doing the schooling. infact, they shouldn't be allowed to do anything but be chained to a wall.
Prison should be about rehabiltation. and some people should be killed/don't deserve to be a part of society.[/QUOTE]
How about making prisons self sustaining so they aren't a burden on the tax payers?ridetoofast said:
thats a stellar idea andy
Changleen said:Do you remember what you just posted?ink: This post makes no sense. You just questioned and then agreed with my point...
Why? You're rejecting the lessons of nearly all of human history in that statement. <---what lessons of history?
my answer to that was be productive through hard labor then
[/QUOTE]Changleen said:
so that monster that recently kidnapped those kids in utah or oregon or wherever it was i dont remember off the top of my head, who is also very likely tied to some other gruesome acts against children,
you are going to sit there and tell me HE deserves to LIVE???
someone who kidnapped, and REPEATEDLY raped a LITTLE girl.
he deserves to live? that is rich.